Where is your God?!

reply to post by john124


I'm sorry, I did mean they don't really believe in God, therefore have no fear of him. I miss- spoke. I was wondering. They only hide behind Him to camouflage their evil doings.

reply to post by Republican08

You have nailed the dilemma concerning God and one most of us struggle with- why all the evil in this world???? Are humans creating God through being? If so, then God is not what I had thought - the complete oneness. I don't know - but I do feel in my gut that there is an eternal oneness of existence.

Religion for me does not help and I just cannot be a joiner nor do I trust that the bible is truly the word of God - too much opportunity for human interference. But for all that, I think and believe we are of a spirit nature and eternal and that there is an intelligence or God of existence. The reason is the insights I have received in dreams all my life - showing me sometimes the unfolding of my life. Many have been of lousy happenings that I did not understand at the time of my dream. Some were of conversations with those who have passed telling me that we do continue.

But one was of a brief visit to the spirit realm - no I did not see Jesus or God or angels - just other souls - and it was a place of absolute joy. I also saw the earth life and realized how dense this existence is - sort of like the difference between life in color and life in black and white - can't really describe it. I saw that church and religion had little to do with the spiritual and that humans seem to be covered with a shell - I knew that I was usually reacting to the shell and not the actual spirit of the person(s).

At any rate, it was fascinating for me and I understood that death is not to be feared - it is a release and it means going home.

I know the psycho babble that would explain away dreams and visitations, but I "know" we continue and that how we live while on earth matters. I don't know why this is a place of so much sufferering, but it seems we must learn about our nature while we are here. I think we are to evolve and not to be overcome by fear. We do not need to fear and we can ask for help. Another thing I believe in is the power of prayer - we are telepathic beings and prayer is one means of tapping into that and sending it to others.

Well, that is my take on this and I think we all deserve a medal for being on the earth - this is a tough plane of existence - not for the weak of heart.

reply to post by zarp3333


I'm still confused, if people tell me that heaven is a great place, and you'll never be bored in god's presence. How did god get bored.

He seems like that nerdy guy who plays video games by himself all day, and has bed sores all over his body.

And what do we need to learn, and better yet... Why, why do we need to learn pain and suffering, if for eternity, we will all be slaves and always praising god.

There is no point to any of it.

I do understand were your coming from, just too many holes. You really have to warp your mind to try to grasp it I suppose.

We are assuming that "god" is using the same system of value judgements we are. Projecting human standards onto an infinite energy is more than a bit arrogant and extremely nieve. It is entirely possible that our observations of events within the hollogram are extremely subjective and can only be viewed as such from our relative vantage point within the construct. None of this is real. Its a projection. What we see as a universe could, in theory, represent a single pixel in the eye of god. It is possible that we are only organs of sensate transmission, cells in the hand of god as it were, whos only purpose is to interface and feed back direct, realtime info to the source. No right. No wrong. Just to be and to experience as a fratal representation of something infinitely bigger. Each of us has a specific role within specific parameters, both as indivuals and as a collective. Maybe we, and our entire living processes, are only observable as energetic data. Wavelength. Tone. Color. None of these attributes carries moral weight, they are just observable output. Maybe god sees #ing and fighting as the same energy, for example. Perhaps love looks like insanity. What if our own systems of internal morality and codified theology are so far removed from reality that they bear absolutely no relavance in any context outside of our own subjective cultures...I'm just sayin.
We are in no position to judge the mind, or even the existance, of god. We are in no position to comprehend the incomprehensible. There is no absolute truth.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Republican08

 

and by the way, anybody who thinks they know the answers to your questions are lost. nobody knows why things are they way they are. They just are. Some have faith that things will work out, and some don't care. Arguing with anyone about why God does what he does, would be like asking me how anti gravity works. I might give you an answer, but it will be wrong.

Good point, but questions, aren't bad things.


We all have questions, and seeing people actively searching and pondering is incredible to see. I do it constantly 24/7.

No bad can come from a question can it?

Well I guess if it comes to court and what not lol.

Originally posted by Wookiep
[
Why not? I think an all-powerful God can do whatever he wants. Who are we to say that he can't or hasn't *limited* himself in the sense that he does not allow himself to make choices for us? If we *didn't* have free-will then all "religions" are pointless. I think if we were to quote general scriptures of all "religious" documents, I'm willing to bet we would find very solid evidence that we are intended to have "free-will" by Gods pourpose.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Wookiep]

Yes, you would think this wouldn't you. This has been a premise of my belief (I do not say faith or religion for I am not religious, I feel that I am more spiritual than anything.) The problem is that you will find the exact opposite to be true with the general population of the church. I'm sure the higher ups will have a better understanding of this but they rarely teach it.

For example, the last few churches I have been to I have brought this very point up. Boy oh boy did they NOT like it. "God has a plan for us all." "Our destiny has been laid out by God." And on and on. They truly believe that God has already put in place everything that will happen in their life.

This is where I feel that most religious people lose touch with what is meant by an all knowing God. They truly believe that God has everything that will happen in their life set to happen in a certain way. So when good or bad things happen it is God's will. The problem is, they got it all wrong.

It isn't that God has set up their life, it's more like God will know all potential outcomes of all potential decisions a human being can make. Thus, knowing what will happen. That's what I believe is meant by an all knowing God.

So when it comes to free will, I remember someone bringing up this very discussion in the last church I attended (I attend not because I am a member but simply to interact with people and to observe them). They were upset about how the silly explanations of "It's God's will" just doesn't make her feel better than a small child would get raped and then brutally murdered. The fear that the child had to experience and so on was behind comprehension for her to believe that if there were a God that it would allow that to happen to an innocent child.

The answers she got were the typical religious nonsense about how the world is evil, how the devil works in mysterious ways (that was the first time I had heard that spin LOL), about how it was his will, that it happened for a reason, and blah blah blah.

I then piped in and said, from the standpoint of a 'what if' argument (and I explained this) that God has chosen to not interfere. That if there is life after death and we cannot be destroyed, that we simply transcend, that it would make perfect sense that God would simply allow us to grow on our own. To have our own Free Will to make life decisions be it good or bad. That if we truly lived on afterward that the rape and murder of that child is simply a matter of insignificance to God because the child is truly not murdered if what many religions teach is true. That yes, the person doing the raping and murdering will face consequences but it is their free will decision to do what they did. That technically, if God is all loving, then that child would gain the chance to live another life in order to experience it and make their free will decisions to grow.

That essentially it is always about growth.

Boy, I got some stern looks and sniffs from that. The people, evangelical baptists, simply tore me apart for having such a mislead idea of God's plan.

Wow, it was interesting to see them react the way they did. I can virtually pick apart most religious arguments. It simply takes rational thoughts and discussion. The problem is that most religious people become irate when their beliefs are challenged. Many of these people are family members and they simply stopped talking to me. It's quite hilarious actually because I think I got them to THINK about their religioun and what they are told to believe instead of believing what their minds and hearts tell them to.

reply to post by sickofitall2012

How bout you think, man. Capital punishment is by the hand of humans, not God, and with a twenty year appeal process, why should they fear it.

ok i'll repeat this once struck down is struck down..personal attack?you havn't got a clue ,even when i was just trying to hand you one.asking some to think a little about what i've said, before you post, is nothing personal. so quit wasting space.if you don't like the things i'm saying, i'd be happy if you would use that ignore button k?

network dude
and by the way, anybody who thinks they know the answers to your questions are lost. nobody knows why things are they way they are. They just are. Some have faith that things will work out, and some don't care. Arguing with anyone about why God does what he does, would be like asking me how anti gravity works. I might give you an answer, but it will be wrong.

but there are answers. i think this is why he is asking. 08 yes no?





[edit on 19-8-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by Republican08


questions are the only way to learn, so no, they are most certainly not bad. And for the record, I welcome questions. It lets me give you my point of view and you almost have to listen to me no matter how crazy I sound. Because you asked.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Republican08

 

questions are the only way to learn, so no, they are most certainly not bad. And for the record, I welcome questions. It lets me give you my point of view and you almost have to listen to me no matter how crazy I sound. Because you asked.

LMAO, Perfect example.

I do love seeing other peoples point of view, although I can be highly notoriously critical.

But nonetheless, I do think about them later on in the day and such.

My teachers and soccer coach always told me I think to much, in grade school. Then i found ritalin. Then I didn't think at all.

Now I'm still trying a way to stop thinking so much, and enjoy things more.

But I do get a pleasure from thinking about these types of things.

Especially, when they see the craziness of my thoughts too!

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

It would seem that you have a lot of excuses as well....

reply to post by syrinx2112


I was touched by your post, very honest and revealing. You were tried by fire, I had some rough times but none to compare with yours. I too was drawn to God as a child and still am, even though my family never attended church, not once. I don't know why some of us are drawn and other repulsed by God. Well, maybe I do know; Satan is capturing souls for his own "kingdom" and that makes me sad.

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by dimensionaljumper
Religion is a parasite. Its spreads among the weak minded.

:u p:

If demons are reading this they're doing a thumbs up right along with you.

reply to post by Bombeni


Thank you for your note... I usually never reply to ATS posts, but I feel sad for the OP... Oh how I wish I could just do something...

Again, thanks!!!

Later

Personally I believe all the evil in the world is caused by man. We were given free will, now if we chose to do good with it (ie help our neighbour) or we could chose to do bad with it. (ie kill someone from stepping on our land.) The choice is ours to make. No those innocent people didn't deserve to have pain and suffering, but that's why we have laws. In hopes that people would think twice before doing something so wrong. I grew up abused, but I learned from the abuse and I do believe GOD was with me the entire time. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten through it and maybe would have died. I am not angry at GOD for something someone else did to me. The world is a cruel place, that's why it is up to us to protect the world and make do more good then bad. Its why when its cold outside and someone asks me for money to make a call, I give a little extra so they can get a coffee. I don't have to, but it makes the world a better place to not be so cruel. Just a simple gesture makes someone feel better about their day. So don't blame GOD for man's actions.

Isnt the general idea that when something good happens then its down to God, and when something bad happens people automatically jump in with either 'we have free will', or 'everything happens for a reason'?
Just seems to me like people should take more responsibility for their own actions... is it really such a scary thought that the only thing that has any influence on the world is us, and not God?

So glad I keep the hell away from religion.. I dont understand how people can be satisfied with believing in something that gives out the impression that you have zero chance of ever understanding it, and so shouldnt question it.

Originally posted by Republican08

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Republican08

 

and by the way, anybody who thinks they know the answers to your questions are lost. nobody knows why things are they way they are. They just are. Some have faith that things will work out, and some don't care. Arguing with anyone about why God does what he does, would be like asking me how anti gravity works. I might give you an answer, but it will be wrong.

Good point, but questions, aren't bad things.


We all have questions, and seeing people actively searching and pondering is incredible to see. I do it constantly 24/7.

No bad can come from a question can it?

Well I guess if it comes to court and what not lol.

too much of it is bad it will lead to confusion (there is some matters that we shouldnt know for our own benefit)

reply to post by Republican08


I don't understand how you can't grasp that we are here to learn. If you don't experience hate, how do you truly know love? If you can't experience the pain and suffering and problems that get you from one place to the next, how can you experience the pride and strength that took you to get to where you wanted to be?

I really believe in "heaven" we experience only love. There are no human emotions like what we feel on earth. I believe we have to experience it to gain to a higher level spiritally to understand love so much more.

I don't believe God makes us come to earth or any other world say, we ask to come. We ask to experience our life. I think the harder our lives are the more we gain spiritally.

I do not know why god does not intervene... but someone asked God a similar question Why doe he alow evil in this world.

And God answered him.

Job 40 (Amplified Bible)
7Gird up your loins now like a man; I will demand of you, and you answer Me. 8Will you also annul (set aside and render void) My judgment? Will you condemn Me [your God], that you may [appear] righteous and justified? 9Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His? 10[Since you question the manner of the Almighty's rule] deck yourself now with the excellency and dignity [of the Supreme Ruler, and yourself undertake the government of the world if you are so wise], and array yourself with honor and majesty. 11Pour forth the overflowings of your anger, and look on everyone who is proud and abase him; 12Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low, and tread down the wicked where they stand [if you are so able, Job]. 13[Bury and] hide them all in the dust together; [and] shut them up [in the prison house of death]. 14[If you can do all this, Job, proving yourself of divine might] then will I [God] praise you also [and acknowledge that] your own right hand can save you.

The problem is we mortals cannot begin to imagine what goes through an omnipotent beings mind. Why should a God intervene everytime man screws up. Who is to say that same girl that gets murdered would not have grown up to be hitler's equivilant. We just do not know.

BTW hey everyone!

reply to post by Republican08


Well if I created the world and just told eveybody to be good. That"ll just be tyranny. And I dont think God wanted to force anybody into doing anything. Satan tempted us. And we failed. Now we must be born in sin and live in sin. Do you think the world will be the same if Eve refused temptation? Right now it is a trial period. Whether u choose to side with good or evil is up to you. And here is a news flash for you. Satan does not have the power to kill anybody. What he can do is trick and deceive us. We are the killing machines. Thats why we must change.

reply to post by nateandcourt


"The problem is we mortals cannot begin to imagine what goes through an omnipotent beings mind. Why should a God intervene everytime man screws up. Who is to say that same girl that gets murdered would not have grown up to be hitler's equivilant. We just do not know."

excellent point!!!! Only He knows.

Republican08, I think of you as a friend , and I truly only want you to be happy with who you are, don't worry what others think. Make your own decisions, and it doesn't hurt to just ask Him for a little guidance if you are feeling lost or confused.
Life is a series of lessons. I learn new things everyday. I look back at the bad choices I made, funny thing is, they were not bad because they have brought me to where I am today. I am so happy and grateful for Him leading me to this point and do thank Him, everyday. Good luck and Bless you.