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Conservatives, your either for or against socialized healthcare

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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Mr Weiner from New York said it better than I can:



Just like the comments I have made about how pointless it is to argue against distribution of wealth, and how hypocritical it is given the policies conservatives support which so depend on it, the "socialized" healthcare argument is no different. For 8 years the conservatives already governed the nation over some form of socialized healthcare system, and yet they kep shut, and yet the conservatives here kept shut. Why? Well isnt it rather simple? Its about hypocrisy and about any excuse to flame away.

8 years the conservatives were in the whitehouse, not an ounce of argument against medicare. 8 years of conservatives in power, while it appears that the politicians were happily covered by the government in healthcare, and yet for some reason its different and its "communism" when working class americans cant even get basic coverage when they need to. Ask those protestors whether they would like to add ending coverage to themselves and their republican politicians while they are at it.

Its real funny, honestly. I bet ya'll that a large fraction of those republican sponsered protestors are within their retirement age, wouldnt be surprised how many of them are covered by medicare, and I'd really wonder to myself what would happen if we bowed down to the demands of the rightwing and took down medicare while we are at it.

Go and ask your conservative congressman or whatever to rally against medicare. Do they have the b*lls to do it? Would any of you opt to end the public coverage of seniors and politicians while we're at it? It appears that in this world your either against some form of socialism or your not, there shouldnt be any in between (atleast thats not what I have been hearing).

So, how do we solve this... dilemma? eh? I need ya'll to go out there and rally against socialized medical care for grandma, grandpa and good' ol' bob up there in DC. I think its time to tell the anti-healthcare folks they gotta add these systems to their protests... after all, this is all about socialism, right?

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Southern Guardian]




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


You're right.

The way that government is ruining Medicare/Medicaid it'll be out of business in a few years anyway. Then private industry can come in and take over yet another failed government program and make it successful.

Internet, UPS moving out the post office.
AMTRAK? Hasn't shown a profit since the 70's.
NASA? A "black hole" (pardon the pun) for government money. More innovation is in the public sector anyway.
Education? Since the creation of the department of education, our public school system has been falling in global ranking and with the buckets of money going into salaries instead of quality education, time for that to go as well.

The military? Their job is to kill people and break things. So far, I'd say they do a pretty good job at that. Let the government keep it.

So, yeah SG, you're right. Get the government out of everything. They'll just make a mess of it.

As to why it has taken so long for some conservatives to say something? Me, personally, I was a go-government lackey for too long. Sometimes it takes a while to have your eyes opened. It finally did, in my case.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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Well...

After thinking about it...


SG, wouldn't the GOP systematically and purposfuly destroy the program once they regain a foot hold? Thats the question and the concern in the back of my mind... I often suspect that BUSH and friends let everything go so bad, #1 for profit and #2 anticipation of a DEM resurgence. I mean we already know that they dealt exclusively in long term strategy in all realms possible. They knew whoever inherited the WH would have a hell of a time getting out of IRAQ... I think the economic hit was tactical on so many levels also. Some DEM sap would have to clean it up which would create populace rage out of the gate.

That being said wouldn't a GOP president do everything possible to assist in a Healthcare failure? Hell such a failure would "prove" that the government screws up everything
and that the idea was a bad one. Sadly I think there is that level of malice in the GOP and that movement.

Back to Bush - do you remember the $6.00 gas? Coincided and peaked with crashing markets
--- I KNOW in my bones that whole event was planned - think about it
Defense/Oil/Finance all got $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from the mismanagement.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Very question here, why wont these conservative politicians, these leaders of their anti-healthcare protests mention medicare along with their list of hateful socialist programmes? I'll tell ya why, alot of em' are probably denpendable for it. I would seriously like to see them take off medicare and healthcare for the politicians, now that would be an interesting event.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 03:46 AM
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im trying to figure out why you guys have such faith in a obviously defunct "political" system.

how can you blame one "side" and consider the other pure? what gives you the idea there all acting out anything more then punch and judy theatrics so we have a warm feeling in are harts that the "people" still rule? its like a boxing match. its rigged and only a minority knows whos goin down in what round. the only sure thing is that the majority is gonna loose there bet. but thats okay because it really seemed like they were fighting it out.

but on the bright side, we will probably do okay cuz the MIC likes to plan way ahead and has had a great opportunity to study human mentality. so as long as we continue to be predictably complacent, we will get along with "flying colors" as long as we know the rules to the game they have compiled.

XP



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by acornco
im trying to figure out why you guys have such faith in a obviously defunct "political" system.

how can you blame one "side" and consider the other pure?


This isnt really about partisanship, this is about ideology. I really hate it when the NWOers gate crash every political discussion because they dont believe in santa clause. Look I am discussing healthcare here, and evidently there exists people with different opinions whether they are partisan or not so it'd be highly appreciated if you could stay out political discussion if you dont like it.

SG



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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Medicare has 85 trillion in unfunded liablities.

It is bankrupt.

This congress critter who is talking is obfuscating the facts.

The facts are Medicare is broke, bloated, and averages around 30 billion in annual fraud.

The government is pushing for a total take over of the medical industry because they know certain doom is looming in the near future.

We have to choices:

1. we nationalize the entire system, set prices, which creates shortages, which leads to rationed care

2. we deregulate, try to find a way to get people off of this dependent care system we have created, and let the free market take over.

Health insurance is only expensive because government mandates force private insurance to cover all sorts of nonsense that should not be covered by a private insurance plan.

When you buy car insurance, you don't expect it to pay for oil changes, tires, and new brake pads. However that is exactly what government mandates force upon private health insurance.

With the removal of such Stalinist and unconstitutional regulations, private care insurance would drop substaintially in price if policies were created that only covered catastrophic illness. Also, drug prices and routine care would drop dramatically in cost as pharmaceuticals and doctors are forced to compete on price as well as quality.

The choice is yours America

National healthcare that can only lead to shortages and rationing or free markets that keep big government and big pharma out of the picture.


Who do you think pays for all this lobbying we are seeing in favor of nationalized healthcare?

Think the Dems just get all that money out of nowhere?

The democratic effort is total astroturf, paid for and funded by the people who stand to benefit the most from such a plan of nationalized competition-free care, big pharma.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
Medicare has 85 trillion in unfunded liablities.


Can provide a source?


The facts are Medicare


Ask yourself this, why is it that Dick Army, and the rest of the "revolutionary" leaders of this anti-public option league that seem to be paraded around here, why wont they dare add medicare and government health care for politicians to their lists when they speak at these events? I know dick army has stated his opposition, would he then have the balls to say the same to those on medicare among his protestors? Would he tell his republican collegues to give up their federally funded healthcare? Why do you think neither they nor those 60year old protestors take any mention of protesting against medicare at these town halls?

Why dont they mention it? Because they know so many already depend on medicare, a socialized form of healthcare, and they know they have no chance. Mr and Mrs Carter from Alabama are most happy to protest at their townhall, but if that means stripping their medicare, I'd be curious to see where they stand.

Dick army stated he wanted to end medicare, atleast his keeping on track, would he be able to say it to those seniors at his town hall? Those veterans? Do you seriously think that the republicans are going to give up their public healthcare just to maintain their ideological credibility? Oh wait, they have not been asked to give it up by anybody. Interesting aint it? All Im hearing is the public option? Why isnt the leaders at these protests going further? Whats stopping them..? I ask.


The government is pushing for a total take over of the medical industry


The government has introduced a public option. Now you are all welcome to speculate government take overs, alien landings, big foot, but at the end of the day its just talk. This plan is an option from the insurence industry, there is no need to lie about its contents, even if you havent bothers to take a look at the plan.


We have to choices


Ofcourse you do, if you dont want to wait long, go back to your insurance coverage. If you fear change of doctors, go back to your insurance companies. If you buy the death panel crap, whats stopping you from going to your insurance? Infact I ask myself why fear the safety of the insurance industry? Are these corporations victims?

Tell me if there is so much confidence in the great coverage the insurance companies give you:

-Why make excuses about the public option?

-Why is america 37th, below Costa rica in healthcare, the worlds most powerful and wealthy nation?

-Why be against it due to its collectivism when the military, police, fireman, coast guard, library and public schools all depend on a public system? You know I'd go further, what right do you have to outright refuse health coverage for those less fortunate, yet force the rest of us to pay billions for your oversized military? Who gives the cr*p about socialism when its spreading good'ol middle american democracy in the middle east right?

SG



[edit on 19-8-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by mikerussellus
 


I don't agree that the government can't run anything. Outside of budgetary problems, things run quite well.

And I hear a lot of complaining from people who have it pretty good.

The highway system is the largest, and most efficient in the world.

While the USPS may have budget problems, they are very effective. I get my mail, six days a week, no matter what.

As someone who used to do 500k in shipping a year, I can tell you that they are the most efficient and cheapest of all the shipping companies. In fact, I rank DHL next and UPS dead last. USPS was the fastest, cheapest, and rarely broke anything.

We rarely go without electricity or clean water.

EVERYONE has access to an education. quality debatebale. But anyone anywhere of any status can go to school. The quality of education, without the interference of NCLB, is based on state and lpcalities. Which is why it is not all created the same.

NASA has brought us amazing discoveries and technology. They seem to be bumping out the information quite regularly now. It was the first to land on the moon.

We have museums, theaters and libraries in just about every town big or small.

though it can be a bear to deal with, the department of motor vehicles is efficient.

So is the military.

the CDC

Emergency response


the FAA and they have an enormous responsibility.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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I am against it. But guess what? The Dems are in power now so it doesn't matter what I want. Conservatives, whether they be politicians or citizens, can't stop the Dems from passing a healthcare bill. The only thing stopping the Dems is themselves. They have until 2010 to get everything they can rammed through before super majority is at risk. But they are fully aware of this and thus they are pushing everything through like it's some major crisis.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by jjkenobi
 


It is a major crisis.


And in desperate times we have desperate measures.

Which is why we will get this with the nuclear option if nothing else.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by jjkenobi
 


It is a major crisis.


And in desperate times we have desperate measures.

Which is why we will get this with the nuclear option if nothing else.



I am curious to your reasoning why this is a major crisis in the US right now? I don't see it that way but would like to hear why you do.

And please FYI don't start in on the 47 million people without health care number that includes illegal citizens and people making over 75k a year, you will instantly lose my attention.



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