Pearl Harbor, Mother of all Conspiracies.

Theorists challenging the traditional view that Pearl Harbor was a surprise repeatedly note Roosevelt wanted (though did not say so officially) the United States to intervene in the war against Germany. A basic understanding of the political situation of 1941 precludes such an understanding as reasonable evidence Roosevelt invited, allowed, or even knew of the Pearl Harbor attack. Military historian and novelist, Thomas Fleming, argues that President Roosevelt, himself, had wished for Germany or Japan to strike the first blow, but did not expect the United States to be hit as severely as she was in the attack on Pearl Harbor.[69] Even though it was Japan, not Germany, who actually attacked the U.S. fleet, America still officially entered the war in the European theater four days later.

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reply to post by ChemBreather

By 1940, diplomatic relationships between the United States and Japan had badly deteriorated. After the Japanese invaded French Indochina in 1941, the United States placed an embargo against Japan and stopped all trade and petroleum exports. In response to the embargo, the Japanese formulated a bold plan to seize the oil-rich East Indies and dubbed the plan, “Southern Operation.” Admiral Isokoru Yamamoto decided that an aerial attack on Pearl Harbor would protect the flank of the Southern Operation and sway the balance of power in the Pacific. By November the attack was ordered and Japan's First Air Fleet left the Kurile Islands for Pearl Harbor.

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Since Mr. Baker’s column expresses such strong objection to the recent congressional initiative, and the author himself seems preoccupied with blame fixing, I think it would be useful to explain my purpose. My name was mentioned in the congressional amendment; my presentation of the operational realities that bore on what happened on December 7, 1941, was a factor in the congressional decision. Thirty-five years ago, in 1966, I commanded our carrier task forces in the Gulf of Tonkin. I quickly learned that timely intelligence helped accomplish missions and saved lives. I applied that knowledge and preached that gospel while on active duty in three subsequent assignments. In 1982, quite by chance, I had occasion to inquire into events surrounding the Pearl Harbor calamity. It quickly became clear to me that this was the perfect parable to help register in top-level administrative and military minds the fact that high-quality, timely information is essential. My purpose was to teach lessons from past mistakes so as to avoid repeating them; the theory that Roosevelt had been forewarned about the attack was peripheral to this objective.

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A partial refutation of the Beard argument appeared in 1950 in Basil Rauch's Roosevelt from Munich to Pearl Harbor. The administration did not know in advance of the planned attack on Pearl Harbor, he argued. It did, however, expect an attack somewhere; and it made subtle efforts to "maneuver" Japan into firing the first shot in the conflict. But Richard N. Current, in Secretary Stimson: A Study in Statecraft (1954), offered an even stronger challenge to Beard. Stimson did indeed anticipate an attack, Current argued, but not an attack on American territory; rather, he anticipated an assault on British or Dutch possessions in the Pacific. The problem confronting the administration was not how to maneuver the Japanese into attacking the United States, but how to find a way to make a Japanese attack on British or Dutch territory appear to be an attack on America. Only thus, Stimson believed, could Congress be persuaded to approve a declaration of war.

The most thorough study of Pearl Harbor to date appeared in 1981: Gordon W. Prange's At Dawn We Slept. Like Wohlstetter, Prange concluded that the Roosevelt administration was guilty of a series of disastrous blunders in interpreting Japanese strategy; the American government had possession of enough information to predict the attack, but failed to do so. But Prange dismissed the arguments of the "revisionists" (Beard and his successors) that the president had deliberately maneuvered the nation into the war by permitting the Japanese to attack. Instead, he emphasized the enormous daring and great skill with which the Japanese orchestrated an ambitious operation that few Americans believed possible.

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I dislike revisionist History...there is no question that America was being prepared for war, but it is not true that President Roosevelt knew in advance of an attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor.
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[edit on 19-8-2009 by Oatmeal]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I know the honest truth behind history, it is all set into motion by the rich and power elite, just for profit, culling off the populace through population control, and grabbing land, as well as eradicating certain undesired segments of humanity, which to me is all sick, perverted, and wholeheartedly the way the elite use citizens of their nations as pawns on a giant chess board.

I was thinking further on this topic last night...

While going over a few of my old books, it dawned on me how US forces at Pearl had set a perfect situation for an attack in the preceding weeks. Supposedly fearful of sabotage from Japanese agents or sympathizers they neatly stacked the planes all together in close rows in the center of the airfields away from the outer perimeters to make it harder for the supposed sabotage but which also made them perfect targets for bombers.

When we look at battleship row, all our slightly older and out of date battleships were all neatly lined up which was also perfect for bombers to attack. During this period in naval military history there was great debate about how the battleships days had passed and that the Carriers were the new capital vessels. This theoretical thinking was proven true by the British earlier in the war. The example given was a comparison of the battleships being a bear or lion caught in thick foliage while being stung to death by a nearby angry hornets nest or beehive.

Coincidence?

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Meanwhile on Dec 7th our few pacific carriers coincidentally were out to sea.

If we strictly look at the numbers at Pearl alone both in ships and fighter aircraft we had enough assets to have fought the Japanese. Albeit they were slightly older aircraft and most of the ships were older types and designs. Those forces were large enough and more than capable of blunting the Japanese in the Pacific. Here is the conspiracy part....

This was a perfect opportunity to get several objectives accomplished.

1. Set the US on a war footing.

2. Most of the Aircraft at Pearl and the Philippines that was destroyed were older designs that needed to be replaced anyway. We needed to replace those losses with newer and better aircraft. This was great for the aircraft indu$trie$.

3. Although they resurrected some of the damaged battleships at Pearl the new emphases was on Carriers. The Navy needed lots of new carriers. This was great for the Ship building indu$trie$.


ETC...


[edit on 19-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


You are indeed correct, at least in my opinion, and from what i have read on the topic.

The people behind the scenes decided what better way to get rid of the out of date equipment, and use a pretext towards war, than to set a trap for the Japanese.

It rebuilt the industry, rebuilt our economy, and as well rebuilt America's trust in its Government, albeit through deceit, treachery, and lies.

Like I said before, F.D.R.'s favorite tactic was to not let one hand know what the other was doing.

This pattern is used in other areas as well, like the Lusitania, which was set to go into U-Boat waters to lure the German's into attacking it, as a pretext for war, by Churchill, with both British and United States citizens aboard, prior to Pearl harbor.

I believe it has been used many times, this corrupt pattern, and will be used many more until someone catches them in the act, but they will just change tact.

It is through think-tank's in Washington these uses of deceit and guile play out.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Speaking of the Lusitania more mystery surrounds that one.

Apparently before the public had a chance to see her in 1993 she was used as target practice and then later....

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Reports of blasting and salvaging operations, some apparently conducted by or for the Royal Navy, dated back to 1946. In the 1980s, salvagers had removed two of the bow anchors and three of the four bronze propellers. But nothing prepared us for the actual scene of devastation

Kind of makes one wonder what exactly were they trying to make sure wouldn't be discovered by later investigators.


[edit on 19-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well, according to several books I have read, the Lusitania was fitted like a war-ship.

This was an expedient way for the British to turn around and usher their luxury liners into the war if necessary.

Think of it as pre-fitting an oceanliner you know you will call into being a part of the war.

This is probably what they wanted to hide, as well as the supplies inside her hull.

The book below is just one of many I have read that included the Lusitania...

The Creature From Jekyll Island: A Second Look At the Federal Reserve

...among other tantalizing secrets covered up by the World Government collective.

Here is a thread I just found already speaking on the Lusitania.

Ammo found on the Lusitania

...also my thread on the book by the same name as above...

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

[edit on 19-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

The people behind the scenes decided what better way to get rid of the out of date equipment, and use a pretext towards war, than to set a trap for the Japanese. It rebuilt the industry, rebuilt our economy, and as well rebuilt America's trust in its Government, albeit through deceit, treachery, and lies.

I agree, But the OP was about Roosevelt knowing about when and where the first Japanese attack would occur, read my above posts, I just cannot believe he knew precisely where and when, and the ridiculous commanders on Pearl, did the worst things possible., IE: Bunching up the Planes, Lining up the ships, Locking up all the Ammo. Jeezus the place wasn't even on alert, even though they were warned. They expected an attack elsewhere in the Pacific. Also communications in 1941, were at best like an advanced Morse Code...

reply to post by Oatmeal


I understand that completely.

F.D.R. knew exactly how the Japanese were going to respond.

He was warned months in advance, many people contacted him in advance.

The American Consulate in Japan warned F.D.R. that the Japanese were practicing torpedo-bombing in a harbor in Japan that was similar to Pearl Harbor.

The ships were bunched together, on purpose, in order to make sure it was a bottleneck, as well as easier targets for the Japanese.

It was a trap, set for Hirohito, and he fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

This is how F.D.R. sidestepped the American people being resistant to us getting embroiled into another "ignorant war" of Europe, as the American people saw it.

America was highly isolationist at this time, and F.D.R. had promised to not get involved in WWII.

Pearl Harbor was his way of goading the Japanese into releasing him, because if they attacked he could claim deniability, and then he could ask for release from that promise, at the cost of 2,000 soldiers lives.

The American people were outraged and incensed that Japan would "malevolently" attack Pearl Harbor, when Hirohito was only responding to the supply lines being cut off in Southeast Asia, which made it difficult for Japan to wage war.

As far as F.D.R. not knowing the attack would be so devastating, or so many lives would be lost, he just did not care whatsoever, he saw them as a sacrifice to get America out of the Great Depression as well as being able to be "the Savior" of Europe.

Below is a Conservative Wiki, and no, I am not Conservative :

Attack on Pearl Harbor

That link explains Pearl Harbor more so than I bother to go into the time to do.

I know details about America in regards to WWII that would make you vomit.

As well as what I have already explained in other posts about radar being new and F.D.R. not wanting to give away that the U.S. had it, which would have alerted Hitler, the U.S. Navy, specifically O.N.I., or Office of Naval Intelligence had cracked the Purple Code cipher of the Japanese, and by warning Pearl Harbor of its imminent destruction this would have alerted the Japenese that their code was cracked, and they would have switched ciphers.

During World War II, Naval Intelligence became responsible for the translation, evaluation and dissemination of intercepted Japanese communications, and its budget and staff grew significantly.

The reason for their significantly increased budget was because they had hit paydirt.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]