Time for 'Don't Ask' Policy to Go?

It seems like some people are insecure with their sexuality. I'm gay and wouldn't mind showering with a bunch of straight women, is something wrong with me?!

Seriously people need to grow up, this isn't high school anymore, I think it's pretty illogical to go face death in death in combat but when you go back to base your 'uncomfortable' to shower with a gay man.

Not every gay man is going to find you attractive, and if they do so what? If they do something deck them in the face, they deserve it.

But they shouldn't be stuffed back into the closet in order to defend their country, this is America, our right to the pursuit of happiness is defended in the constitution, homosexual suicide rates are already too high for most of the reasons listed in this thread. Ie: having to hide your sexuality, fear of acceptance, and basically being bullied.

There are gay men already in the military, the only difference this will make is that they can't get kicked out if they acknowledge it, and there are actually quite a few that I can think of that are in the Air Force that serve openly and no one cares.

Originally posted by Uniceft17
Not every gay man is going to find you attractive, and if they do so what? If they do something deck them in the face, they deserve it.

Ya let's punch a whole lotta gay men in the showeroom... in the army
sounds like a great plan
and then a fight breaks out, maybe a guy stared a few dudes
and other gay men also helps the gay dude out

oh great scenario a huge naked fight in the shower with militants.
Great idea!

Hey you think we can apply the same to women?
Let's make a unisex shower room and then you got naked women hitting men and men hitting gay men and pretty much everyone is fighting everday single day!

I mean where does it end
If it's not wrong, why should it end?
if it's wrong then it most definately should end
the above scenario definately makes it seem it should end!

Originally posted by Bushido Kanji
Going to war has nothing to do with this thread. Similarly, it has nothing to do with the policy of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.'

It has everything to do with war. The whole argument of don't ask/tell is so you build a high level of trust in your unit. If you are homophobic or homosexual can there be 100% trust that person will save your life (including putting his/her life on the line) in a time of battle?

I have 9 (nine) family members in the U.S. military. All of the men have said they would rather not know who is gay or homophobic. Why? My relative who is gay would not trust everyone in his unit to rescue him should he need it. In fact, his unit has a gay-hater who would probably drown him if given the opportunity.

The other relatives have doubts about a gay man's physical & mental strength or intentions for joining the military if he's gay. Or other various reasons of ill logic. My female relatives don't care either way.

So yeah! Don't Ask, Don't Tell is in place so knowledge of one's homosexuality does not undermine the unit during a time of battle. To be successful, a unit must have cohesiveness and trust.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I said if they DO something. Do you honestly think a gay man is going to try to do anythign with a self-proclaimed hetero? I don't think so.

I think a gay man would be more uncomfortable in a shower with a bunch of heteros for obvious reasons. Especially if he's force to be closeted.

[edit on 8/18/2009 by Uniceft17]

reply to post by KSPigpen


For the posters who say that they are not comfortable showering in front of a gay man, guess what you probably already have. If you have ever showered publicly at a gym or in any other locker room, odds are you showered in front of someone who is gay, either openly gay or not...they might even be one of your friends.

I am blown away at the number of men in the US who are so threatened by the idea or presence of gay men. I really think there is something deep seeded and being suppressed here. What logical reason is there to be so terrified and threatened by a gay man. Questioning and insecurity of your own sexuality, combined with an ingrained bias and negativity towards homosexuality is probably the best explanation for why straight men are threatened by gay men.

Who cares? Why does it matter who finds who attractive? Straight men should love that there are gay men. Its only helping your odds for meeting some hottie(woman).

Originally posted by Nivcharah

Originally posted by Bushido Kanji
Going to war has nothing to do with this thread. Similarly, it has nothing to do with the policy of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.'

It has everything to do with war. The whole argument of don't ask/tell is so you build a high level of trust in your unit. If you are homophobic or homosexual can there be 100% trust that person will save your life (including putting his/her life on the line) in a time of battle?

I have 9 (nine) family members in the U.S. military. All of the men have said they would rather not know who is gay or homophobic. Why? My relative who is gay would not trust everyone in his unit to rescue him should he need it. In fact, his unit has a gay-hater who would probably drown him if given the opportunity.

The other relatives have doubts about a gay man's physical & mental strength or intentions for joining the military if he's gay. Or other various reasons of ill logic. My female relatives don't care either way.

So yeah! Don't Ask, Don't Tell is in place so knowledge of one's homosexuality does not undermine the unit during a time of battle. To be successful, a unit must have cohesiveness and trust.

So if you are heterosexual you should keep that to yourself as well. No talk of having interest in women because it might make the homosexual feel uncomfortable.

That lack of trust from someone who is homophobic falls upon that person. Should the same be said for people in other races and religions? You're not comfortable so they should be bared from serving? I guess we should not allow any African Americans in the military because there are some who are racist and instead of them changing their flawed thinking we should put the blame on the the other person.

Its the military, you do as you are told by your commanding officer. If he/she says get along, then you get along. You build trust through the activities and requirements of the military, you do not base it on someones sexual preference or skin color or anything else. People are people! We are all the same.

For a bunch of people that don't know what they're talking about, you folks make an excellent discussion. (Just kidding, you KNOW I love you, yeah, even the guys)

I read a study recently that link homophobia with latent homosexuality. I know that will be very popular. If you want, I can dig up the study, or you can find it yourself if you care enough about it.

I would be all for co-ed facilities, but Americans are generally so repressed that it's hard to trust us alone with a member of the opposite sex. It's like a whole jug of ice cream, we just don't know when to stop.

The most compelling argument I have heard so far is that it is about TRUST. If the typical, homophobic macho soldier (60%) KNOWS that soldier X is gay, there will be doubt...doubt on either one of their parts, that could negatively impact Esprit de Corp. If no one knows, it's just one American patriot fighting next to another American patriot. One man, willing to give his LIFE for his fellow man, gay or not. It doesn't matter.

So following that logic, 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' still makes an awful lot of sense.

I wonder when we, as a people will stop crucifying people for being different.

I was in prison and had to fight many times, not to get poked in buttie, and these guys most of them weren't gay, very sick in the mind but not gay.
And if I was in shower with bunch of women don't believe for second I wouldn't be checking out the ones I would like to talk to.

I also find it a bother, when a gay guy aproaches me, and I tell them to get away from me before I bash them for real.
The reply is often you don't have to be that way, and my reply is well you don't have to be that way either.

There was this black dude at Rayford, he weight about 400+ looked like gorilla, thank God I never met this guy he wasn't gay either, but I don't think it mattered.

Sorry it just don't work for me, but if I was gay, I think I would enlist

[edit on 18-8-2009 by googolplex]

reply to post by googolplex

Sorry it just don't work for me, but if I was gay, I think I would enlist

This is one of the few arguments so far that I can buy into! If a gay man wanted to be neck deep in macho men, the military would be a good place to join!

The same goes for pedophiles in schools and churches. This is the only reason I can see for not allowing them in the military!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
This was such a ridiculous policy all along! IMO the minute they starting deploying females, the whole homosexuality issue was dead.

Originally there were some logical reasons to not allow females and homosexuals in deployed units, and we have seen some negative repercussions of mixed sexes in deployed units, and we have seen some great female soldiers as well!

If it is OK to mix sexes, it should be ok to mix sexualities as well!

On a lighter note: An army of homosexuals would have been extremely frightening to MUSLIM MEN in our current theater!! They do not have any tolerance for that type of thing, so image the fright of being overwhelmed and captured by a superior force!

A bit contradictory if you ask me?!
Why?

Or does it mean you just bought another concept?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by googolplex

 

Sorry it just don't work for me, but if I was gay, I think I would enlist

This is one of the few arguments so far that I can buy into! If a gay man wanted to be neck deep in macho men, the military would be a good place to join!

The same goes for pedophiles in schools and churches. This is the only reason I can see for not allowing them in the military!

Are you serious?!?! You honestly think that a gay man is joining the army so he can get some action and look at men. Seriously?@?!@ There are lots of ways for a gay man to meet other gay men. With so few gay men in the military why would a gay man go there to meet men? You really think that a gay man would risk his life in combat so he could be in a public shower with men. He could just as easily go to his local gym and shower if he wanted to play lookie loo in a public shower.

I think you are very misguided to use a comparison of gay men to pedophiles.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


I don't really think a gay man would join the military just to meet other men, but I think it is a better argument than "they might look at me in the shower!"

I also said earlier that I thought there was a concern the men would "couple up" and make bad decisions because of a romantic connection, but allowing females in the armed forces negated that argument.

I think it is ridiculous to have a don't ask, don't tell policy, allow gays in the military, allow them to train, and fight, and advance in rank, and then all of a sudden pull the rug out from under them, because somebody finds out they are gay! Shouldn't the "don't tell" apply to everyone? If I find out Bob is gay, I shouldn't be able to tell anybody, and he shouldn't lose his job!