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Time for 'Don't Ask' Policy to Go?

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Time for 'Don't Ask' Policy to Go?


www.military.com

The gatherings next week in Omaha and Lincoln are two stops on a national tour intended to keep pressure on President Barack Obama to change a policy he repeatedly said he would end while on the campaign trail.

The 1993 policy, a compromise between then-President Bill Clinton and military leaders, eliminated the military's practice of asking military recruits if they were gay, then barring those who answered yes.

It left in place a ban on being openly gay in the military, creating a situation It left in place a ban on being openly gay in the military, creating a situation where a gay ma
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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One word. SPARTA. This policy has forced people to hide and lie about their sexual preference to serve their country. I don't think the two should be exclusive of each other.

I know there is a lot of gay bashing that goes on. I think people should be able to do what they want, when it comes to expressing their sexuality. I don't agree with it, but if a soldier is gay, that doesn't automatically mean that he is a bad soldier, or that he will somehow 'spread' his homosexuality to the other soldiers.
I think Obama needs to step up and take care of the business he said he would take care of. The homophobia and discrimination needs to stop.


www.military.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by KSPigpen
I think Obama needs to step up and take care of the business he said he would take care of.


I couldn't agree more. I hope he does keep this promise. We need to turn a page in this country and come together as Americans and stand behind our fellow Americans and our founding documents and stop all discrimination.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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This was such a ridiculous policy all along! IMO the minute they starting deploying females, the whole homosexuality issue was dead.

Originally there were some logical reasons to not allow females and homosexuals in deployed units, and we have seen some negative repercussions of mixed sexes in deployed units, and we have seen some great female soldiers as well!

If it is OK to mix sexes, it should be ok to mix sexualities as well!

On a lighter note: An army of homosexuals would have been extremely frightening to Muslim men in our current theater!! They do not have any tolerance for that type of thing, so image the fright of being overwhelmed and captured by a superior force!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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As far as I'm concerned the whole ethos behind 'Don't ask, don't tell' is that it nobody else's business to be thinking about the sexual orientation of somebody else.

My employer didn't ask me about it during the application process so why should the military be any different.

I'm a guy. Do I have a problem having to share a shower room, changing room or dorm block with a gay man? No I don't. I'm mature - I'm a grown up.

It doesn't affect their ability to do the job. It doesn't affect how seriously they take their job. It is nobody else's business.

The only people who are worried about other people's sexuality are ignorant and often sexually repressed themselves. I pity them and they disgust me in equal measure.

Sexual bigots - keep your noses out of others' business. For once.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Fine, i'm all for rights.

But I do not want to be taking a shower openly with gays.
I don't even want to take a shower with heteros for that matter.
But if you decide to take such a job with such an environment then....

Also changing, I don't want to change in the locker room if they are gay men there.

Something is really wrong here!

I'm watching TV, sometimes watching movies, there are so many gay references on the tube these days. I think the tube is trying to convert everyone.

Anyhow............. Something weird is happening!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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I never understood this textbook example of homophobia in the military for three reasons.

1) Orientation won't affect one's ability to aim a rifle.
- It may make you less likely to hold a rifle but if you are the kind of guy who wants in the military, you're going to be able to bear arms as well as the next rube.

2) There isn't any reason for the military to know in the first place.
- What goes on in the bedroom isn't really anyone else's business but your own and your lover(s).

3) Gay love can make fighters more formidable.
- As the OP astutely put "Sparta." In antiquity, gay couples in the ranks seemed to make warriors fight harder and longer and with greater courage than otherwise and these armies were revered as such a formidable force.

And on a side note, what if you can't answer 'yes' or 'no' to the question. Speaking as a bisexual, I would wonder where they would draw the line.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by cado angelus
 



It doesn't affect their ability to do the job. It doesn't affect how seriously they take their job. It is nobody else's business.


I agree, but originally that was exactly the justification for it!

If someone developed a sexual attraction or attachment to another member of the squad, they might make rash decisions in that person's defense. The same for females. Commanders worried that men would be foolhearty in an attempt to be chivalrous!

I don't think it was ever an issue of showering or changing in the presence of homosexuals. If you are armed and dangerous in a war-torn territory, someone seeing your wee-wee is probably the least of your worries!

I still think the whole argument was stupid, because war buddies develop an extreme emotional attachment anyway. It doesn't have to be a homosexual relationship to love someone you have gone through hell with, and your decision making will be altered in all cases!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 



And on a side note, what if you can't answer 'yes' or 'no' to the question. Speaking as a bisexual, I would wonder where they would draw the line.




I agree, I am not bisexual, but I have joked about it before, and I readily admit that after I have had all the women, I will be ready to switch to men!

I have a buddy that went through the Russian military as a young man 40 years ago. He was deployed for 2 years in extreme conditions for certain training. The wealthiest villager near his deployment was a pig-farmer that rented his pigs to the young GI's!!!

The funniest part was that some men were not able to leave the pigs when they went home. They had become emotionally attached and would buy them and keep them!!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I'm watching TV, sometimes watching movies, there are so many gay references on the tube these days. I think the tube is trying to convert everyone.


I know what your talking about but it's nothing sinister - you can't actually be converted, after all. It's something entertainers do to connect with their audience, they draw on the insecurities of the culture and push the audience for a response.

You say you wouldn't want to change or shower with openly gay men around and some of my friends are like that with me but my best mate says this.
"Meh. Let them look, provided they don't touch, I have no reason to object. - I suppose I should take their attention as a compliment."

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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In five straight surveys done by the Military Times newspaper, nearly 60 percent of the active-duty respondents have said they oppose allowing openly gay people into the military.
also from the original source

they're okay killing people but not serving with gay people. the ethics of it are messed up.

the problem is, the government ask soldiers to die for them, if the majority of people don't want to serve with openly gay people, i'm just not sure it's appropriate to force them.

the difficulty with drawing conclusions from respondent surveys is that people usually don't bother to reply unless they really care. in this case it'll be gay people and homophobes. perhaps a proper ballot of the military would solve the issue, it's possible that most people wouldn't care.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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It is a stupid, stupid move to even consider removing the don't ask don't tell policy.

The military isn't exactly private. You share small quarters, shower together and sometimes sleep close to each other for warmth or very bare during a hot night.

A gay man would either have to use a differant shower tent or shower with the females , gay woman would have to shower if the men or the homosexuals would have to shower together.

Or they would need their own shower tents and shower seperatley from everyone else.


It is easy for you guys to say you are all for it. It doesn't affect you. Go ahead and call those who will affect homophobes if you want. It doesn't phase me. It would be like me saying you suck at your job when I have no idea what you do.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by pieman
 


I think the term "openly gay" is probably misunderstood in that survey. I don't like "overtly gay" or "flaming" individuals, and in a war zone, I might want to shoot some annoying fashion critic if I had half a chance!

That is different than your average homosexual man that may or may not ever know unless you asked!

Also, homosexual applies to women as well. I wonder if those survey respondents would answer the same way about homosexual women? I highly doubt anyone would have a problem serving with a "butch" woman that was as tough as any man, or with an attractive woman that simply preferred other women. Either way, I don't think it would be a problem!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 


Ridiculous analogy.

THAT is the same sort of thinking back when the US Armed Forces were being 'integrated'.

AND, to you guys who say you'd be uncomfortable changing or showering in front of a Gay man, don't flatter yourselves so much!

You are WAY too hung up on the sexuality aspects....do you think every Gay man, or straight woman, finds your sorry butt attractive???

Do you straight men find every woman you see attractive???

Take your heads out of your bums and grow up ... you're adults, not adolescents!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by pieman
 


I would imagine that with figures like that, there would be a lot of abuse and bulling towards the gays. The soldiers don't seem to have issue humiliating detainees like a sick and cruel joke, I expect they'd express that they don't appreciate the gays in service.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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I Do think it's a little homophobic to assume that a gay person couldn't be able to shower with another individual without wanting to have gay sex with them. What makes you so attractive that a gay guy wants you anyway?


You see where I'm coming from? What if the person likes 'fat chicks.' I don't know if I want to shower with some guy that likes fat chicks. It might spread to me, or he might think I look like a fat chick and try to seduce me.


Please.

The policy is ridiculous. Yeah, it's ok to die for your country, as long as you have the same sexual preference as me, or at least pretend like it. I think gay people can fight just as well as heteros. Again, Sparta.

Courage, valor, dedication....none of them dependent on any particular sexuality preference.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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I don't see it happening anytime in the near future. Like any president, he has only so much political capital, much of which he has already expended. He can ill afford to take on another highly divisive issue at a moment where the economy is a major problem and when he's fighting and losing a major battle on healthcare, with a major battle over cap-and-trade likely coming this fall. There are enough stormclouds on the horizon for this administration without kicking another hornet's nest.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by jd140
 


Ridiculous analogy.

THAT is the same sort of thinking back when the US Armed Forces were being 'integrated'.

AND, to you guys who say you'd be uncomfortable changing or showering in front of a Gay man, don't flatter yourselves so much!

You are WAY too hung up on the sexuality aspects....do you think every Gay man, or straight woman, finds your sorry butt attractive???

Do you straight men find every woman you see attractive???

Take your heads out of your bums and grow up ... you're adults, not adolescents!


All I saw was blah blah blah, this doesn't affect me, blah blah blah.

I tell you what, if you don't care then join up and lead by example. Simple as that. You are always running off at the mouth about something or another and this time your mouth has no buisness running.

You can have your opinion, but it doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot this time around.

Of course you will probably alert this message,cry to a mod and have it removed. I expect no less from you when faced with a little resistance.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by KSPigpen
I Do think it's a little homophobic to assume that a gay person couldn't be able to shower with another individual without wanting to have gay sex with them. What makes you so attractive that a gay guy wants you anyway?


You see where I'm coming from? What if the person likes 'fat chicks.' I don't know if I want to shower with some guy that likes fat chicks. It might spread to me, or he might think I look like a fat chick and try to seduce me.


Please.

The policy is ridiculous. Yeah, it's ok to die for your country, as long as you have the same sexual preference as me, or at least pretend like it. I think gay people can fight just as well as heteros. Again, Sparta.

Courage, valor, dedication....none of them dependent on any particular sexuality preference.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by KSPigpen]


Its not about a guy not wanting to shower with a gay guy. Forget that its two guys. Look at it as a guy and a girl. Girls (in this situation is the straight guy, ironic huh) don't want to shower with guys. Doesn't mean that every guy wants to sleep or stare at her. Its a comfort thing.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 


Forget that its two guys. Look at it as a guy and a girl. Girls (in this situation is the straight guy, ironic huh) don't want to shower with guys. Doesn't mean that every guy wants to sleep or stare at her. Its a comfort thing.


Because soldiers need to be comfortable, the sleep and like kings. No expense is spared for these Lords and Dukes!

Come on! It's a little awkward, fine. But these men fight in life or death situations and having to bare gay me not having sex with them is too much somehow. Are these men more touchy than the most camp gays?

Harden up.




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