Masons and conspiracy theories

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posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
This forum section is a joke.


That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.


I have little respect for most of the masons I have read posting here.


I'm sure the feeling is mutual.


Guys, quit.


Can't make us. *raspberry*



Go invest your time in your own life and make some money.


Ummmm... OK. That's what I do every day. It's called a job. As far as investing time in our own lives? Well part of the spirit of Masonry is to be charitable and help those less fortunate. Perhaps if people invested less time in their own lives and helped to educate (which is the case here) or otherwise help others, the world would be a better place.


Politics is corrupt and Bush is a liar.


No argument from me. Most politicians are liars. I think it sucks too.



One person or a handful can't always speak for an entire organization.


*applause* Right you are.


Secrecy is base and should be erradicated.


OK smartguy, pony up your credit card numbers and SS#, full name and
address... That's all secret and secrecy should be erradicated, right? Waiting...


As for the shooting, I am not convinced either way: it looks like the Masons tried to cover up Mayo's comments. It also looks like an accident, too. Nobody has pursuaded to accept one side or the other. Jury is out.


Really I think it's a dead issue. I've still got a couple of calls to make, chiefly because I said that I would. I don't see it changing anything. It was an accident and that's that. Non-Masons will try to argue that it was part of the FC degree because they have no idsea what the FC degree entails. Masons do. That's why they can argue from a good position that it was NOT a part of the FC degree because they have all BEEN THROUGH it. Understand?

[edit on 4/4/05 by The Axeman]




posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
This forum section is a joke. I have little respect for most of the masons I have read posting here. Guys, quit. Go invest your time in your own life and make some money.


Oh please, get over yourself and starat figuring out that you are not always going to know it all, and that you will never effectively argue a position when you do not truly know anything about the subject. If you really do want to learn, and make yourself a better person along the way, then join the masons and see for yourself. You might even learn to control that temper along the way...



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 02:56 AM
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"The center of the SS 'cult' became the castle of Wewelsburg in Westphalia, which Himmler bought as a ruin in 1934 and rebuilt over the next 11 years at a cost of 13 million marks. The central banqueting hall contained a vast round table with 13 throne-like seats to accommodate Himmler and 12 of his closest 'apostles' - making, as some occult writers have pointed out, a coven of 13. Beneath this hall was a 'Hall of the Dead', where plinths stood around a stone table. As each member of the inner circle of the SS died, his coat of arms would be burned and, together with his ashes, placed in an urn on one of these plinths
for veneration." - Richard Deacon, Spyclopaedia


Damn. There is that pescy number 13 again. Coincidence?
I wanted to post this on One dollar bill thread, but it's locked.

Cheers



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by yanchek

"The center of the SS 'cult' became the castle of Wewelsburg in Westphalia, which Himmler bought as a ruin in 1934 and rebuilt over the next 11 years at a cost of 13 million marks. The central banqueting hall contained a vast round table with 13 throne-like seats to accommodate Himmler and 12 of his closest 'apostles' - making, as some occult writers have pointed out, a coven of 13. Beneath this hall was a 'Hall of the Dead', where plinths stood around a stone table. As each member of the inner circle of the SS died, his coat of arms would be burned and, together with his ashes, placed in an urn on one of these plinths
for veneration." - Richard Deacon, Spyclopaedia


Damn. There is that pescy number 13 again. Coincidence?
I wanted to post this on One dollar bill thread, but it's locked.

Cheers

Hey, dont worry - number 13 is in no way conencted to any of the masons or illuminati or anything. Its just anti-masonic propaganda that makes you feel that.....NOT!

Well, sorry but I asked to lockup this One Dollar Bill thread, becaues it has gone far FAR away from its original topic.

Nice find on the occult of the Third Reich. I saw yesterday a documentary, about SS Death Squads that had similar Skull & Bonez logo like mister (or should i say Master) Bush and his Skull & Bones "Fraternity" has! Coincidence again?



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Here is another interesting link on Skull&Bones

Click here

One hihglight in this article

This Article is written for and Dedicated to the America's Armed Forces

Please Note ... In 1917 the Federal Reserve Bank of New York was located at the 120 Broadway which was the headquarters for the funding of the Communist and Nazi movements. It is where Pierre Jay (Skull & Bones) became the First Chairman of the NY Federal Reserve, in NY city.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
...SS Death Squads that had similar Skull & Bonez logo like mister (or should i say Master) Bush and his Skull & Bones "Fraternity" has! Coincidence again?


Axtually, LOTS of organizations have Skull and Bones logos. Are you goinng to link every single one to a small secretive college frat? Cuz THAT'S wat I call reaching....



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
The Free Masons are definetly an underground society that has plotted in the past and is still plotting to infiltrate our government with their own
intertwined ( Cultic and Occultic Beliefs ) that stem back to the 1400's. And yes most of their symbolism had come from the Occult and even guess what ? Islam ! Is this really a master plan of the East to destroy the West ?

Could there be an unforseen force leading this ? Well if they base their secret society on the Occult and is so secret that they won't come out and talk about their REAL UNDERLINING AGENDA who knows ? Just some things to make us think ! Enjoy a history lesson at:

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Many more sites like this exposing this angle of the freemasons on the net.

Check it out and have fun !





posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
The Free Masons are definetly an underground society that has plotted in the past and is still plotting to infiltrate our government with their own
intertwined ( Cultic and Occultic Beliefs ) that stem back to the 1400's. And yes most of their symbolism had come from the Occult and even guess what ? Islam ! Is this really a master plan of the East to destroy the West ?


Hey, I have a question: can you provide any evidence for what you claimed above? I suggest you do that before you spew out any more senseless garbage. I challenge you to provide some solid proof of what you stated as fact above. Can you? Or are you a troll like the rest of them?



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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It is just amazing that people will still post that ALL of Freemasonry is involved in anything.
Its more amazing that people will post that no one in Freemasonry benefits from its existence, materially.


If its anyone framing the Masons, its not the Anti-Masons, its the people

ACTUALLY committing and planning these conspiracies, who just HAPPEN to have

members inside Masonry, and have had, for a LONG time.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Its more amazing that people will post that no one in Freemasonry benefits from its existence, materially.


Actually MANY people benefit from its existance. Masons and non-masons alike.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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Sebat... Why?

How can you say non-Masons benefit "alike" Masons?

I mean, one is running the organization and receiving the donations, and the other is getting a few dollars every month "if he follows the rules", or maybe a roof over his head, or subsidized medical care for hundreds of dollars in instead of $$$ thousands.

So what? If there was no Shriner's Hospital, burns would still be treated, for free! Come to terms with it!

You guys need to realize NO ONE has attacked all of freemasonry for anything, except complacency (the very thing mpeake's signature warns against), and how can one PROVE complacency?

Its already been stated, there are Freemasons that give the whole a bad name, namely because of their highly influential role in either Business or Politics, and the fact that they are surrounded by fellow Freemasons when they are put in these positions.

Does anyone REALLY want to crack open the Black Book of Business deals involving Freemasons?
Similarly, for Political connections, why bother denying that the 'Eastern Seaboard Elite' and English nobility (of olde) have tried to maintain political control of the UK and USA for the last 200 years atleast.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
How can you say non-Masons benefit "alike" Masons?

I mean, one is running the organization and receiving the donations, and the other is getting a few dollars every month "if he follows the rules", or maybe a roof over his head, or subsidized medical care for hundreds of dollars in instead of $$$ thousands.

So what? If there was no Shriner's Hospital, burns would still be treated, for free! Come to terms with it!


Do you really think that that's all that masons do? Donate some money to random charities and run a few hospitals!?!? Masons RUN charities, many of them, they do volunteer work ON THEIR OWN, not through other orgs, they help people close to them. I've known masons who mowed the lawnn of a neighbor who couldn't do it for himself, then took him to the hospital when he got sick, etc. etc. Masons are charitable people who want to try to leave the world a better place, and THAT is how people benefit.

And just cuz you have a few examples of bad charities, don't you dare generalize all of them as so. There's charities out there who do things for people that you couldn't comprehend with your "small town small mind" mentality.



You guys need to realize NO ONE has attacked all of freemasonry for anything, except complacency (the very thing mpeake's signature warns against), and how can one PROVE complacency?


You have attacked ALL of masonry MULTIPLE times. Stop lying. Your sarcastic remarks and cheap shots DO counnt as attacks also.



Its already been stated, there are Freemasons that give the whole a bad name, namely because of their highly influential role in either Business or Politics, and the fact that they are surrounded by fellow Freemasons when they are put in these positions.


No they dont, because we've already told you that any group of masons does NOT represent masonry as a whole. So how can the P2 lodge in italy make us look bad? It makes THEM look bad because they acted on their own. And they paid for it.



Does anyone REALLY want to crack open the Black Book of Business deals involving Freemasons?
Similarly, for Political connections, why bother denying that the 'Eastern Seaboard Elite' and English nobility (of olde) have tried to maintain political control of the UK and USA for the last 200 years atleast.


Oh please. Why do you always single out masonry for these things? How about bankers, stock brokers, the catholic church, the red cross? This happens EVERYWHERE across all countries, economies, etc etc and masonry is not immune to this either. This is by no means a product of freemasonry and therefore you need to stop singling us out by this. You only do it because you're determined to portray our organization in a bad light. You might wanna think about changing your agenda sometime soon, as your repeated failures to implicate masonry in shady dealings fails time after time.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Does anyone REALLY want to crack open the Black Book of Business deals involving Freemasons?


Personally I don't care, but it's of more than a little satisfaction for me to know that if anyone does (crack open the Black book, yadda, yadda) it WON'T be the likes of you.

But, hey, live in your own LITTLE closed-minded world (even though you think I'M the one who's brainwashed) and think what you want to think.

As I've said before, I truly pity you, you sad little man.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Author of Masonic Ritual and thus Freemasonry:
Sir Francis Bacon, 100 years before the official founding.

He was ALSO the offspring of the Queen of England, but was not recognized as such OFFICIALLY, but this does not change the fact that he was NOT offspring of the Bacon family, BUT in name. His blood was royal.

"A strange story has been told about Francis Bacon's birth. He was, they say, the natural son of Queen Elizabeth, sired by Robert Dudley, the Earl of Leicester. They met and were secretly married while both were confined in the Tower of London.
After the birth of the baby, he was given to the Queen's Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, Sir Nicholas Bacon to be raised by him and his wife Lady Anne Bacon.
Sir Edward Coke, Bacon's lifelong enemy, called him in public "The Queen's Bastard."
Anyway, there's more to the story: In 1571, twelve years after Elizabeth's accession, Parliament was invoked to make it a penal offence to speak of any OTHER successor to the Crown of England than the Natural issue of the Queen.
The popular feeling with regard to Elizabeth's connection with Leicester on that occasion is well expressed by Camden. He says, "I myself have heard some often say, that the word was inserted into the Act on purpose by Leicester that it might one day obtrude upon the English (public) some Bastard son of his for the Queen's natural issue."
It was contended that the term "natural" distinctly meant a birth out of wedlock, and that "lawful" was the only proper term to have been used."

And this is where all the secrecy started.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
And this is where all the secrecy started.

I give up. How does the bastard birth of Bacon add up to "this is where all the secrecy started"?
I love a good conspiracy as much as the next person, but I am stumped on this one



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
Author of Masonic Ritual and thus Freemasonry:
Sir Francis Bacon, 100 years before the official founding.

He was ALSO the offspring of the Queen of England, but was not recognized as such OFFICIALLY, but this does not change the fact that he was NOT offspring of the Bacon family, BUT in name. His blood was royal.


I don't understand what you're trying to say Akilles, nor how you can assume that "this is where secrecy started". But that doesn't matter. What does is:

How could you assume that whoever is the author of Masonic ritual is the author of Freemasonry? Masonry is not a book, not a text, not an object, not a noun... get it? Freemasonry is not any one thing, it is many things that cannot be put into words. NOBODY is the author or founder of Freemasonry.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Well, from my reading here, I have come to the conclusion that Masons, as a group, are not involved in NWO. I guess Icke was wrong about a few things.

But, what brings so many Masons here to ATS lately?
What do you guys think about conspiracy theories? Do you come to ATS to educate people about Masons? Enjoyment or curiosity?
Could you share your reasons for being here?

I came here to learn more about the "evil" Masons and other secret groups who plan to take over the world.
I still think there is an agenda to overtake the world. I still think the government does not have our best interest at heart.


Well I'm sorry to upset your apple cart, but ICKE was very right! If you ever wondered what the masons are all about, my Dad was one and this is how the Truth is: 8700 years ago they were formed, and to protect their ranks they made ONE Law for ALL (amongst a few other laws to protect their "trade secrets") using nine words to govern the courts so they would always win if any arguments ensued.
Those nine words are still in use today, in ALL courts worldwide!
"NO LAW OR FACT SHALL BE TRIED IN COURT"
Now when you go to court for ANYTHING you will know why most people cannot win.
The other major event that has happened worldwide and ALL governments know this fact: ALL LANGUAGES HAVE BEEN MATHEMATICALLY ALTERED OR MODIFIED, Thereby ensuring that nobody can speak the TRUTH to anybody.
So, there you have it. In other words, you can never win an argument, because when you speak you say nothing!
Also, if you're looking for the NWO, it began in 1873 when the Universal Postal Union was formed (another arm of Freemasonry) and they captured ALL of Planet Earth for ALL time by allowing everyone to send anything, anywhere for two years through the mail for 1 penny, no matter whether a parcel or a letter! Once everyone was hooked they couldn't change it.
How's that for Monopoly.
Also, when Napoleon looked like capturing all of Europe, the Rothschilds bought up all the stocks everywhere for 1 cent on the dollar, then when he was defeated and ALL stock went up 500%, the Rothschilds became the richest family on the planet....Everyone wanted their banking, so Rothschild said "modify your language and you've got it".
There's your NWO and it's been right under your noses all the time, so stop looking and wondering when it's going to happen, it happened a long time ago!
If you don't believe me, go and check out your local bank Act.
One last clue: How come Hawaii is now a sovereign country and not a state of the US?



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by blueymorgan
Well I'm sorry to upset your apple cart, but ICKE was very right! If you ever wondered what the masons are all about, my Dad was one and this is how the Truth is: 8700 years ago they were formed, and to protect their ranks they made ONE Law for ALL (amongst a few other laws to protect their "trade secrets") using nine words to govern the courts so they would always win if any arguments ensued.
Those nine words are still in use today, in ALL courts worldwide!
"NO LAW OR FACT SHALL BE TRIED IN COURT"
Now when you go to court for ANYTHING you will know why most people cannot win.
The other major event that has happened worldwide and ALL governments know this fact: ALL LANGUAGES HAVE BEEN MATHEMATICALLY ALTERED OR MODIFIED, Thereby ensuring that nobody can speak the TRUTH to anybody.
So, there you have it. In other words, you can never win an argument, because when you speak you say nothing!
Also, if you're looking for the NWO, it began in 1873 when the Universal Postal Union was formed (another arm of Freemasonry) and they captured ALL of Planet Earth for ALL time by allowing everyone to send anything, anywhere for two years through the mail for 1 penny, no matter whether a parcel or a letter! Once everyone was hooked they couldn't change it.
How's that for Monopoly.
Also, when Napoleon looked like capturing all of Europe, the Rothschilds bought up all the stocks everywhere for 1 cent on the dollar, then when he was defeated and ALL stock went up 500%, the Rothschilds became the richest family on the planet....Everyone wanted their banking, so Rothschild said "modify your language and you've got it".
There's your NWO and it's been right under your noses all the time, so stop looking and wondering when it's going to happen, it happened a long time ago!
If you don't believe me, go and check out your local bank Act.
One last clue: How come Hawaii is now a sovereign country and not a state of the US?


I, for one, suggest that you stop drinking before you post here on ATS. Nothing you just said makes any sense, do you even KNOW who the Freemasons are!?!? Sounds like you're talking about some imaginary group you just made up.

And by the way, Hawaii is a US state. Check your facts.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by blueymorgan
The other major event that has happened worldwide and ALL governments know this fact: ALL LANGUAGES HAVE BEEN MATHEMATICALLY ALTERED OR MODIFIED, Thereby ensuring that nobody can speak the TRUTH to anybody. So, there you have it. In other words, you can never win an argument, because when you speak you say nothing!
emphasis mine

Does this mean that you are lying now?



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by jhova

[deletia]

Mystery religions deal with sacrifice and sun worship.


Like the
Mysteries of Eleusis, which were centred around Demeter's search for Persephone? And in which the only sacrifice was that a pig was roasted in what amounts to an ancient Greek beach barbecue? And which barred no-one (including slaves) except anyone who had killed another human being?

Or perhaps you mean the Mysteries which were conducted in the catacombs of Rome during the first few decades AD, in which so-called "audientes" were exposed to bizarre teaching about the undead, were named with odd title of "catechumen" when they had accepted enough of the doctrine, and then were called "faithful" when they had engaged in a bizzare blood-drinking and flesh-eating ritual? No, wait, that's Christianity!



Mystery religions have placed many of there pagan beliefs in everyday religious practices.


I hate to bring this up - it is irrelevant to your argument, but please make sure to use "there," "their," and "they're" correctly. (Sorry... I am studying to be a teacher, and some habits are hard to break).

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that Christian religious practices engender idolatry? Or perhaps you are talking about Islam or Judaism, the other two religions usually considered "non-pagan." Muslims would be shocked and dismayed at your assertion that they are idolaters... Islam is the most strictly monotheistic religion on the planet, to the degree that for a long time many Muslims felt that trinitarian Christians were polytheists (trinitarianism is a hard doctrine to come to grips with). Judaism is the original monotheistic desert religion (not necessarily the first monotheistic faith in the world, mind you)... if this taint of paganism has gripped Judaism, then none of us are safe!

But... if you're so concerned about idolatry, why have you chosen such a provocatively quasi-blasphemous name as "jhova?' I assume you did not do it merely to shock or annoy.


The pyramid on the us dollar is definitley a link to egypt, especially with the eye of horus or osirus, the egyptian sun-god.


The object to which you refer on the American dollar is not a pyramid. It is a triangle or delta, signifying the Deity. The eye within signifies that the Deity is omniscient.



The architect, is who the compass (which is at 33degrees) and the bent ruler is symbolic for.


First of all, please capitalise Architect here, because I believe that you must mean the Architect of all Creation, i.e. God. If that is what you mean, then you are partly correct in saying that the compasses are symbolic for Him, but in the same sense that all objects are sybolic of their creator. The compasses do not represent God per se within my lodge, but the mistake is understandable. I assume that by "bent ruler" you mean a square? Please get the name correct, not only for understanding's sake but also out of respect for your "opponents." Again, the square and compasses together do not represent God per se, nor any lesser human architect.



On true masonry cloths, like the ones worn in the eighteen hundreds had sun dials and images of the sun on there sleeves, and paid homage to the light of the east, where naturally the sun rises.


I'm not sure what you meant by "Masonry colths." At first I thought you meant aprons, but then I read the word sleeves. What does the presence of sundials or the sun mean, pray tell? There are cartoons of the sun on many Sunkist (tm) product packages, but I'm sure that even the most upset individual would not claim that it indicates any kind of sun-worship. Let me ask you this, are you advocating a world in which no depictions of the sun will be allowed?



Sun gods in most beliefs were the keepers of knowledge or arts or religions.


I am curious about this. I have not encountered this. Obviously, you are talking about polytheisms, since you speak of "sun gods." Let's take a look.

Greek:
Helios: No, just a god of the sun. Fairly white-bread, didn't do too much interesting.

Babylonian:
Shamash: Apparently he provided laws to humanity, but that doesn't seem to be knowledge of arts and religion.

Egyptian:
Ra, Amun-Ra, and Atum-Ra all appear to be related more to kingship than knowledge. In fact, from a brief search, I find that Ra was considered to be unwilling to interact directly with humanity at all.

I could go on, but I'm short on time.



Sometimes there female counterparts, or there wives were worshipped as well.Osirus's counterpart is Isis, the moon goddess.Sometimes, Osirus, or his Greek counterpart Apollo were shown in statues holding the torch of the light of knowledge, just like the statue of liberty (that was designed by a Spanish mason).


Neither Osiris nor Apollo were sun gods. It is a common misconception that Apollo was a sun god, in fact that place in greek mythology was always held by helios. Apollo was only associated with the sun because of the metaphor that he and his sister Artemis were like the sun and the moon, in their seperate spheres of influence.

I don't know where the idea that Osiris was a sun god comes from. The sun god is clearly Ra.

The statue of liberty was designed by a French sculptor, Fr餩ric Auguste Bartholdi.



And the statue of Liberty has a counterpart in France just like it.


What counterpart is that?



We know plenty about mystery religions, and masons claim to have almost identical symbols, ideals, idols, and possibly the sick rituals that go on in them.


I make no such claim and know of no Mason who does.



The cultures of meso america and south america also worshipped the sun, the mayans, aztecs, olmecs.


These polytheistic cultures worshipped many aspects of the physical world. To claim they worshipped only the sun is demeaning.



They also built pyramids with cult like numerical meanings like our dollar bill, which was designed by a freemason.


Numerical meanings are cult-like? Are the song "One is the Lonliest Number," (sung by THREE Dog Night!!!) or the sitcom "Three's Company," tools of indoctrination?

Neither of the men who designed the dollar bill were Freemasons. Benjamin Franklin was one, but he did no design work (see link above)


i do not know alot about the pyrmids first hand other than what i have been told but i did see a show on tv and i did mason marks on some of the stones there





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