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Masons and conspiracy theories

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posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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Just when i start to feel a little bit more comfortable about masons i find this article on the net.

www.washtimes.com...

Strange type of ritual here, designed to "create a state of anxiety"

That some strange and weird activities some of your lodges/members get upto.

It makes me see why you would want to keep your secrets.
I wonder how many others havn't survived some of the rituals and havn't made it to the news.




posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:19 AM
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that is very old news and to quote an old phrase, that horse has been beaten to death. no need to beat it any more.

lets see if i remember it all. the group involved were members of the masonic order but it was not a Masonic function. they were an unassociated group
meeting in a basement room(as i recall). NOT a sanctioned event.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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plausable deniabily anyone !

The whole masonic organization seems to built on this.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 03:14 AM
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Ok how about this one.

I was told that masons were proud of there allegiance to their organization and proudly state they are masons.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I Would want to know if my judge was a mason.
Sorry guys, but i just dont trust them.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
Ok how about this one.

I was told that masons were proud of there allegiance to their organization and proudly state they are masons.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I Would want to know if my judge was a mason.
Sorry guys, but i just dont trust them.



Well......... read the link that you posted yourself.

"A lady sheriff has refused to tell a Fife businessman accused of theft if she is a freemason..."

I don't know if you noticed, but Freemasonry is a fraternity.

Basing mistrust on the article above isn't the brightest thing to do.


[edit on 23-2-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 06:18 AM
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Isnt the Eastern Star some female spin off of masonry ?
user.aol.com... (i dont know the validity of this site)

The BBC article clearly refers to the judge as being a freemason.


Obviously the profane media and public dont or cant discern between the two.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 06:19 AM
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Who said the person based his mistrust regarding Masons on that 1 article? You guys are predictably pushy and make unfounded comments everywhere. That case is laughable:

She then went on to say she was not prepared to disclose if she were a member of any organisation and gave Mr Ogg leave to appeal her decision to a higher court.

What a joke. Obviously she is hiding something and obviously the accused has a very valid point. As for the Mason murder at that ritual in NY, which was supposedly something detached from Freemasonary. Only thing, when you factor in common sense, and don't let ATS Masons push you around, and finally, look at the facts, the ritual took place inside the basement of a Masonic Lodge, by Freemasons, and has been called the "Fellowship Club". The Masons claim that it is a club within Masonary and not connected in any way. What is laughable is that the second degree in Masonary is called the "Fellow craft." Here is a statement contradicting the "Fellowship Club" by Masonic Senior Deacon Steve Mayo:

Mr. Mayo said the Monday night ceremony [the death] was an initiation into the Fellow Craft, which is the second degree within the multilevel Masonic system.

A problem with old Eid, the perp:

Mr. Eid, of Patchogue, had a permit since 1951 for the .32-caliber handgun, but it was not clear why he took it to the ceremony, police said.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:01 AM
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Lets see if I can't answer some of those questions, Qui Bono


Originally posted by Qui Bono
In say various lodges, how autonomous are they from other lodges ?
and also, can if you please, give me an example of say one thing that may be debated at a lodge, like does it run like a government with say a consensus being made on certain decisions, things like that. people getting say according to the rank of degrees ??


Lodges are all members of a Grand Lodge. There are hundreds of Grand Lodges all over the world, but they are all independent and autonomous. Each Grand Lodge sets its own rules and governs it's own lodges. Depending on how near or far each Grand Lodge is to the bascc landmarks (principles) of freemasonry will determine whether it is 'regular' or not, and hence recognised by other regular Grand Lodges. All lodges must submit to the authority of the Grand Lodge in who's jurisdiction they are under.

Debates as such don't happen in lodge. In England, where I practice my masonry, the lodges just perform the ritual and then socialise afterwards. Administration is handled seperately. When we vote everyone has one vote only.



Besides ceremony, you must say discuss charity for example and how thats going, and how much should be spent on said charity, discuss progress, things like that for example.


Yes, again that sort of stuff is handled at administrative meetings held at a different time from the lodge night.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
Just when i start to feel a little bit more comfortable about masons i find this article on the net.

www.washtimes.com...

Strange type of ritual here, designed to "create a state of anxiety"

That some strange and weird activities some of your lodges/members get upto.


There was a thread on this recently to which I was posting (freudling will remember I'm sure) but it suddenly vanished. That's a shame as there was some comprehensive posting on this very topic. But at least the masons can't be blamed for that one


This was a terrible incident, which has travelled the world via news syndicates. I can't believe freemasons would be so stupid, but there you go - anything is possible. What this doesn't prove in any way is that this was anything more than an isolated incident. The Senior Deacon was misquoted as the article clearly contradicts itself on the matter. Furthermore, one is Initiated to the rank of Entered Apprentice but Passed to a Fellow Craft, as every freemason knows. Dig a little deeper and there are a number of problems with the article.



It makes me see why you would want to keep your secrets.


What secrets would that be?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
Isnt the Eastern Star some female spin off of masonry ?
user.aol.com... (i dont know the validity of this site)

The BBC article clearly refers to the judge as being a freemason.


Obviously the profane media and public dont or cant discern between the two.



Your last sentence is the truth.
The Eastern Star is an organisation that is not recognised by regular Freemasonry. Any organisation can call itself masonic as Freemasonry does not have a copyright on the word.

Freudling. You've laid your cards on the table. I now consider you to be nothing more than a troll. Your inference that this woman is "guilty" because she refuses to address a question only goes to further show your ignorance.
Let's just follow another angle shall we? The more likely scenario based on the fact that she is not a Freemason. In fact not even more likely, but definite as Freemasonry does not accept women.
If somebody accuses someone of something that has no relevance or bearing to the subject matter, do you automatically assume that they are guilty just by not denying a preposterous allegation?

You haven't denied here on ATS that you aren't a Martian Nazi who wears a pink tutu . Therefore by your own logic, I must find you to be guilty of the above. Unless you deny this statement and prove otherwise, you're Sieg Heiling in a pirouetting spaceship, dude.

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
Ok how about this one.

I was told that masons were proud of there allegiance to their organization and proudly state they are masons.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I Would want to know if my judge was a mason.
Sorry guys, but i just dont trust them.


You've been on a fishing expedition haven't you? I'm sure you're aware that bad news and sensationalism sells newspapers. "Masons are a charity organisation with no links to the NWO and Illuminati" is hardly front page news.

In the UK privacy is a major issue, as the government likes to interfere more and more in our daily lives. Many people are fed up with being asked questions that are none of their business, and membership of a legal, private club is exactly that. Whether this woman is a freemason (and there are women freemasons actually) is immaterial - she may just be completely irritated at being treated like a child.

Probably just a ploy by the defendant to try and get off.

These days in the UK being a freemason is much more of a disadvantage than an advantage in career terms



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
Isnt the Eastern Star some female spin off of masonry ?
user.aol.com... (i dont know the validity of this site)

The BBC article clearly refers to the judge as being a freemason.


Obviously the profane media and public dont or cant discern between the two.

There is no Eastern Star in the UK, but there are women freemasons, so lets not jump to conclusions.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
You haven't denied here on ATS that you aren't a Martian Nazi who wears a pink tutu . Therefore by your own logic, I must find you to be guilty of the above. Unless you deny this statement and prove otherwise, you're Sieg Heiling in a pirouetting spaceship, dude.




Just the thought of it.

Based on the same burden of proof that he applies to freemasons, I think you're right and I think I'll set up a website all about it



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by freudling


Mr. Mayo said the Monday night ceremony [the death] was an initiation into the Fellow Craft, which is the second degree within the multilevel Masonic system.



You're looking at word play and you're twisting it to suit your needs. I couldn't give a crap how the paper reported the Deacon's words. The fact is that this was an organisation acting outside of the realms of Freemasonry.

They were called the "Fellow Craft Club".
The "Fellow Craft" is the second degree. The "Fellow Craft club" is not.
Maybe you have a hard time with English and the use of the word "club". Or maybe, as I suspect, you're just trolling. Either way the two are totally different things and however much you would like to link them, you can't. I will tell you all day that you are wrong, for one reason and for one reason only - I know for 100% sure that I am right.
This was a group of people meeting outside the rules sanctioned by Freemasonry, taking part in a ceremony unsanctioned by Freemasonry. A bunch of bloody fools to be sure, but not acting as Freemasons.


Answer me this - The FellowCraft degree is the same the world over. How do you explain the use of guns in a Masonic degree when in my country, it's illegal to even possess them? Sure there are some differences to ceremonies, but I'm pretty sure that this would be the sort of difference that would get noticed, don't you? So how do you explain the use of guns where elsewhere there aren't any - nor any records of them being used?


Let's say that I am a member of the "American Revolutionary War Club". Does that mean that I'm a genuine soldier of the Revolution?
Of course it bloody doesn't.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
There is no Eastern Star in the UK, but there are women freemasons, so lets not jump to conclusions.



Trinityman. I would just like it to be made clear that women's Freemasonry is not recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England. We have cordial relations with some organisations but do not recognise them as regular Freemasonry and intervisitation between members may not take place.

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:36 AM
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The picture im seeing here is that masonry is so compartmentalized, that the lodges and people are kept close but far at the same time, so when a news report like the shooting pops up, it can easily be spun and with the use of PR techniques, can be easily seperated from the main "body" of masonry, thus some form of separation between the incident and masonry can be achieved.

The only other places or examples ive seen this is the government and big corporations.

Seems very clever to me, but very transparant tho.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
The picture im seeing here is that masonry is so compartmentalized, that the lodges and people are kept close but far at the same time, so when a news report like the shooting pops up, it can easily be spun and with the use of PR techniques, can be easily seperated from the main "body" of masonry, thus some form of separation between the incident and masonry can be achieved.






A very polarized view.
If you are a school teacher who attends an unsanctioned event in the school carpark after hours with a couple of other school teachers, is any mistake you may make the responsibility of the whole Education system?
Or should those teachers be responsible for whatever they get up to themselves?

The only thing that can be spun in a case such as this is prejudice.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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William James, 47, of Medford, N.Y., was fatally shot participating in an initiation ceremony into a Masonic social club called Fellow Craft in the basement of the Patchogue lodge last Monday night.

Shot during an "unsactioned" ritual in a masonic building by masons ?

Fellow craft or no fellow craft, might aswell be masons, thats the luxery of the profane.


Suppose there is tonnes of material here that can be disected.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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A very polarized view.
If you are a school teacher who attends an unsanctioned event in the school carpark after hours with a couple of other school teachers, is any mistake you may make the responsibility of the whole Education system?
Or should those teachers be responsible for whatever they get up to themselves?

The only thing that can be spun in a case such as this is prejudice.


It still rubs of on the main establishment doesn't it.
The PR campaign starts where the Education dept. distances itself from the perpertrators.

Same thing with this situation for the masons.

Look its all about public perception of the masons from that incedent which should matter.

And freemasonry will be tarnished nonetheless.


[edit on 23-2-2005 by Qui Bono]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono


Fellow craft or no fellow craft, might aswell be masons, thats the luxery of the profane.




So every Muslim is a terrorist becuase of 911? They might as well be.
Every Christian is a pervert because of child abuse by a few priests? They might as well be.
Every Jew is a murderer because of Israel's policy towards the Palestinians? They might as well be.
Every white man is a slavemaster because of history? They might as well be.
Every negro is a genocidal maniac because of Rwanda? They might as well be.
You are a Nazi because you sound like one? You might as well be.

Generalisation is a dangerous playground.



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