hey, what about vichy french? (since we're in the pit)

You stick to your warped, definitely UNIQUE view of history, and I'll stick to mine - the one most everyone else on here has tried to educate you about.

If you were alive back then, perhaps you don't recall a lot of things too well anymore...

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Did you ever bother to check that the French were at war with England at the time as well? Remember how they joined up with us so that they could have revenge on the English for past losses to them?

It is called American History, you might want to look into some of it.

Ok, you just helped me to further prove my point, thanks.

Oh, but you missed one thing.

It wasn't until Saratoga that King Louis saw that the British could be beaten and that is when he openly recognized America's independence.


So don't make it out that France was on their side from the very beginning because it wasn't that.

It's called American History- read it.

[Edited on 5-12-2004 by Illmatic67]

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Joseph Stalin saved Europe, not FDR.

oh, wasn't it Stalin that later on tried to dominate europe with communism? Doesn't seem like "saving" to me.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
It wasn't until Saratoga that King Louis saw that the British could be beaten and that is when he openly recognized America's independence.


So don't make it out that France was on their side from the very beginning because it wasn't that.

No. You need to read up.

The British were at war with France in Europe. That was a far more important tussle than what took place in the colonies. The US Revolution was just a sideshow as far as British and French affairs were concerned.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
It wasn't until Saratoga that King Louis saw that the British could be beaten and that is when he openly recognized America's independence.

Actually it was the actions of diplomats in France who had already convinced him to join us for his own benefit well before Saratoga. It took him time to assemble a fleet to take his army across the Atlantic.

So don't make it out that France was on their side from the very beginning because it wasn't that.

So all of the trade that they did with us, in open defiance of the British blockade, was for what?

It's called American History- read it.

I have, it's obvious that you have read a different version of history than the rest of us.

[Edited on 5-12-2004 by Illmatic67]

I suggest you try a simple Google search to verify what we have been telling you. If you won't believe it from us, then maybe there is somone out there whose writings can convince you.

Nans doesnt present his argument well but i agree... sure the USA HEPLED! (i hate it when you guys make it sound like it was all you) defeat the Germans twice, but who will help the world defeat the tide of American aggresion and tyranny? I miss the old days when america was quite peacful. A couple of bombing missions here, a quick war in kosovo there. Now America is threatening the world, both directly and indirectly. Directly they are threatening Arab and Muslim nations, who pose little to no threat to America. America are instilling fear into the population of the world to justify its aggresion, the same way the Nazis did to justify they're treatment of the Jews. The Western world is being affected by Americas actions as the Muslim world see Americas friends as their enemies. The smart thing fro any country to do right now would be to refuse to help the USA in any further action against any other country. The more wars we fight for the USA the more of a target we become. Let America fight its own wars, and let Americalose them on its own.

And as for 60% of americans thinking Iraq had connections to Al-Qaeda, and had WMD... Alot of the ignorant population of the USA STILL believe these 'facts' even though absolutely no evidence has surfaced to support either of them...

God Bless the USA coz they sure need it, coz as they keep lying and covering up there obvious tyranny, less and less people are going to bless them.

Originally posted by specialasianX
Nans doesnt present his argument well but i agree... sure the USA HEPLED! (i hate it when you guys make it sound like it was all you) defeat the Germans twice, but who will help the world defeat the tide of American aggresion and tyranny? I miss the old days when america was quite peacful. A couple of bombing missions here, a quick war in kosovo there. Now America is threatening the world, both directly and indirectly. Directly they are threatening Arab and Muslim nations, who pose little to no threat to America. America are instilling fear into the population of the world to justify its aggresion, the same way the Nazis did to justify they're treatment of the Jews. The Western world is being affected by Americas actions as the Muslim world see Americas friends as their enemies. The smart thing fro any country to do right now would be to refuse to help the USA in any further action against any other country. The more wars we fight for the USA the more of a target we become. Let America fight its own wars, and let Americalose them on its own.

And as for 60% of americans thinking Iraq had connections to Al-Qaeda, and had WMD... Alot of the ignorant population of the USA STILL believe these 'facts' even though absolutely no evidence has surfaced to support either of them...

God Bless the USA coz they sure need it, coz as they keep lying and covering up there obvious tyranny, less and less people are going to bless them.

And Stalin did save Europe, if it wasnt for the Ruskys victories on the Western front the US would have been screwed. And yeah Stalin was trying to dominate Europe with his Communism... but the USA and Britain were trying to dominate it with their Capitalism... Why is that less wrong... it isnt...

The victors write history... thats all i have to say

I don't remember a 'stalin plan' to rebuild Europe after WW II - like the Marshall Plan.

And, can anyone provide a source that states 60% of Americans think Iraq had something to do w/ 9/11 or Iraq had connections to Al-Qaeda?? BECAUSE I simply do not believe for one second that that many Americans know what Iraq's Ansar Al-Islam was!!! (gosh, I kill myself sometimes! )


[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Bob88]

Last time I checked 11.2 million russians died in WW2. You don't get that many dead unless you drive wave after wave into the meatgrinder that was the German army until they got browbeat into submission.

Something like 75% of the German troops were fighting the Russians, not the Americans (from German WW2 veterans mouths).

We did however fuel the Russians for a while too, we lost a lot of ships doing that at the time.

This thread is good stuff. You guys should write consecutive chapters of a history book. No-one'd ever pass history.

see, and here i thought that ww2 was won by the biggest smattering of countries to ever come together and fight on the same side. Little did I know that it was only the americans. Or maybe the Russians, no-one seems sure who they are. Come on, lets get real. There were australians, brits, canadians, french, chinese, russians and whole ton of other people all fighting that war together. That's not to say that some didn't make bigger contributions than others, but everyone sacrificed to drive Hitler back. And since when did having the most war dead become a point of shame? Sure, stalin probably did it because he was paranoid and slightly insane, but that doesnt give us the right to act like we did the whole thing by ourselves, and we're the saviours of the western world. And to act like we were busy doing something while the french cowered between 1939-41, well that's bull#. There was the resistance. And the big 'ole US was just leasing guns to britain, and staying the hell out. Why? Because Americans were feeling incredibly pacifistic after their losses in WWI. So let's stop playing and be real. The US aint the end-all and save-all, we just put in a big effort to save our friends. Would be nice if we had friends these days, wouldn't it? too bad we went and pissed em all off in the 21st century.

you're right, lots of things went into winning WW II. Hitler miscalculations. Millions of Russians going into battle w/ out arms. etc, etc. However, I think the US involvment, unlike no other nation, made the war end sooner, if you want to know my opinion. Not to mention, as KJ did, the US was supplying our allies. We even broke our own laws to do it. (FDR's 'ghost ships). I think the Red Ball Express, radar, Bletchley Park/colossus were ally innovations that go overlooked. And, without American involvment, at all, the outcome could have been very, very different. It also could have ended sooner if it weren't for those vichy french.

[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Bob88]

Nans DESMICHELS, you are telling us that you are Arab, and that not all Muslims are extremists or terrorists, yet you say and I quote.,

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
the truth is that USA are a Nazist and Fascist country.

How much more ironic can you be?
You are stereotyping all of the USA, yet you say that "all Muslims are not Al Qaeda".... That the USA has stereotyped Muslims, that's exactly what you are doing..

I think you are claiming to be a moderate Muslim, yet by your own reasoning I think you would like to see all of the USA brought down, since you think we all are Nazists and Fascists....

You destroyed your point when you started this topic and wrote those comments....


BTW, the poster that you have on your avatar is of an American girl, and an American movie....


[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS

But anyway, the truth is that USA are a Nazist and Fascist country.

[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Do you really believe that? Do you know me? Do you know my friends, family? You do not so you can not say something like that. If the USA is a Nazist and a Fascist country then that means over half of the people on this board are Nazis and Facist including most of our moderation staff and Willaim. They are from America, are they Nazis or Facists? I think not so you should shut your damn mouth before you say something stupid like all Americans are Nazis and Facists.

I think Nans just said she was Arab, like for 'arguments sake'

I am talking to her, does not matter what she is.

Bob....I'm am lost for words figuring out why no one has bothered to understand what you are implying by this:

It also could have ended sooner if it weren't for those vichy french.

Gosh damn, where is Nans at to respond to this?!




seekerof

[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Les Français sont des peuples faibles qui ont eu besoin des Américains pour les sauver.

My french classes are long behind me but if that reads "the French are weak and need American help", I'd ask them first if they want it.

Close enough intrepid:
"The French are weak people which needed the Americans to save them."

Good job.


seekerof