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Why can’t Creationists teach an alternative? Are the ‘free thinkers’ - atheists scared of som

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

"Why can’t Creationists teach an alternative? Are the ‘free thinkers’ - atheists scared of something"

hm???????




Come on guys, let's try and NOT OUTSMART EACH OTHER...answer the OP, ok?

OT


Because science doesn't care about alternatives or your views on the subject, it cares about teaching the truth and the burden of proof. Even the vatican (who is not famous for their progressive scientific views) agrees that evolution is a reality, when will the evangelicals get on with the program?




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by madeioo
 


Why are there so many theories in Quantum Mechanics then. You see i don't understand that. The real reason is that the Science of today do not know how to test the Theories of religion. I mean come on. They talk about dimensions that you cannot see, feel, smell, and taste. Lol. See where i am going with this? But Science says it's real. Does not the ancients speak of such things. But when they do its all hogwash right? You need to open your heart.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by madeioo
 


Who the hell, is the Vatican to Dictate to LIFE ???

Is there a Book of Laws, According to Rome, How all has to be Created...

And what LIFE is, or is Not aloud to do ???


Hmmmmm, I think human primates are still living in those caves...

There is LIFE out there you know....
Not just in the Cave...



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by madeioo
 


Hmmm truth and proof eh? Too bad both words are very subjective in nature.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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I don't subscribe to either theory, so this will be the only real point I will make:

Why can't both theories be blended in some situations? Do Christians know what God's plan was?

Lets say Creation happened as stated in the Bible, and a genetic marker was placed by this God into the created creatures so that they may develop and advance on their own without constant prodding and modification.

I'd call that a God who thinks ahead.

As I said, I'm probably fairly naive related to these issues and am only playing devil's advocate.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by madeioo
 


I am by no means saying science is wrong. I am saying it is comparing an infant to a wise man.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 


That is a good point. I think that when science matures enough it will prove the truth. String theory is on its way.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller

Originally posted by Edrick
Oh my.... this should be interesting.


Creationism (Intelligent Design) should not be taught in school for two very good reasons.

1. Evolution is only a Theory.

2. Intelligent Design does not even QUALIFY as a theory.

Do you want to know more?

-Edrtick


No problem with your choice of beliefs but think about this for a moment ???

Ref. 2.

Intelligent Design does not even QUALIFY as a theory.


Didn't YOU Create Your Post to this thread ???

.............




Matrix Traveller,


Hey there!!!!



Great questions you ask there!!!!


OT suspects most (atheists) will IGNORE>>>?????


Prove me wrong guys......


OT (created one) out!

MT, man I've got feet...tied to this earth, should I be sooooo arrogant as to think I've got answers??????????? No way!


Others???????????



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by madeioo
 


Hmmm truth and proof eh? Too bad both words are very subjective in nature.



Watcher-In-The-Shadows....in the house!!!!!!!

Honored, thank you....

wonder why the skeptics ignore, the intellectual integrity OP's questions?

" Why can’t Creationists teach an alternative?"


?????

OT



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
..........As I said, I'm probably fairly naive related to these issues and am only playing devil's advocate....


My DOWN UNDER friend....


You opinion is smartest than most well-thought-out posts....

nah, glad you joined....and played the "devil's advocate"

OT



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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Like as in ALL things they are made of Pairs.
Sometimes Opposites sometimes Not.

But One fact Remains...

There is the Observed...

And The Observer....


There are Two Worlds in everything No matter which Universe, Which World or which experience...

There is the World of “Cognisance

And the World of Biological Robotics....

I would hope it is the "Cognisance" that steers the Biological Robotics and Not the other way Round.

We, that is the Cognisance are a partition of the Greater One or are many trying to cut themselves off from the Greater One, I'm referring to the Total Cognisance of The All.

Is Not a Mighty Ocean, made of Droplets ???
And the Droplets, are hidden in the Ocean ???



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 
see: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Areas of Contribution:
Links: search.live.com...
1) Quantum Physics (OT is a rookie here) "Quantum" comes from the Latin meaning "how much." It refers to the discrete units of matter and energy that are predicted by and observed in quantum physics. Light waves act like particles and particles act like waves (called wave particle duality). Matter can go from one spot to another without moving through the intervening space Quantum optics is a branch of quantum physics that focuses primarily on the behavior of light, or photons. At the level of quantum optics, the behavior of individual photons has a bearing on the outcoming light, as opposed to classical optics, which was developed by Sir Isaac Newton. Quantum Electrodynamics (QED): Quantum electrodynamics (QED) is the study of how electrons and photons interact. Unified Field Theory is a collection of research paths that are trying to reconcile quantum physics with Einstein's theory of general relativity, often by trying to consolidate the fundamental forces of physics. Source: physics.about.com...

2) Cosmology (OT is a rookie here, too)

Links: search.live.com...

Cosmology, study of the universe as a whole, including its distant past and its future. Cosmologists study the universe observationally—by looking at the universe—and theoretically—by using physical laws and theories to predict how the universe should behave. Cosmology is a branch of astronomy, but the observational and theoretical techniques used by cosmologists involve a wide range of other sciences, such as physics and chemistry. Cosmology is distinguished from cosmogony, which used to mean the study of the origin of the universe but now usually refers only to the study of the origin of the solar system. Source: Encarta Encyclopedia


3) Hebrew and Greek scriptures (I am more familiar here)

4) 7 Dimensions/Super String theory/unified string theory????? (OT clueless here, too)


Definitions/Assumptions/Factors:
1) ‘Faith’-Greek ‘pitis’ Translation=belief (spoken)

2) ‘Substance’- Greek ‘hupostasis’ Translation=substructure/actual existence/real being/ substantial quality, nature, of a person or ‘thing’

Hebrews 11:1 ‘FAITH’ is the ‘SUBSTANCE’ of THINGS…


3) Faith mixed with words creates things…All those Genesis phrases, ”And God said…and saw” Is creation a big affirmation of God? Romans 10:17 says “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the WORDS of God.

4) Jesus Christ ‘HOLDS’ all things together. Here are some verses and thoughts…
a. Verses: John 1:1-3 & 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
b. Verses: Col 1:15-17 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
c. Thought: The Word of God was in the beginning before anything was created. The Word of God always was, the Word of God had no beginning. In the beginning the Word of God was God. The Word of God created all things that ever existed and nothing has ever existed apart from the Word of God. The Word of God became flesh, He became a human, He became one of us and lived with us. He revealed the glory of God to us, He made God known to us. Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Jesus Christ is God and always was God, the Creator of all things. Jesus Christ is the one and only Almighty God.
d. Thought: We cannot see God but when we see Jesus Christ we see God, because Jesus Christ is the image of God. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to reveal God to us. Being called the first-born of all creation could not mean that He was the first to be created because He Himself is the creator of all things. The first-born of all creation conveys the idea that He has the birthright to all creation, the idea that He is the head of all creation. All creation is subject to Him, He is the ruler of all creation, because He was before all creation and all creation comes from Him. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, not only created all things by His power but He also holds all things together by His power. Jesus Christ is God Almighty.


5) Laminin-see youtube…it’s a bit chessy, but I felt it contributes to the discussion. Start at time 2:40 for the meat (again, sorry for the background piano/emotion, just listen to the content) www.youtube.com...


6) What’s missing in Quantum Physics? Mathematically, why doesn’t it all break apart? The more we learn about subatomic particles called ‘gluons’, the more the universe seems to be made of nothing at all? Scientist says that all the electrons and subatomic particles of an atom are held together in their precise position and orbit by an invisible force, by which without it, everything would fall apart and reality as we know it, would cease to exist in an instant.
Quotes from Discovery Magazine in 2000, “The weirdness comes from the gluons. Quantum chromodynamics, the force that holds protons together, is modeled closely on quantum electrodynamics, the force that holds atoms together—but the gluons change screening to antiscreening, intuitive to bizarre.” And, “The closer you look, the more you find the proton is dissolving into lots of particles, each of which is carrying very, very little energy," says Wilczek. "And the elements of reality that triggered the whole thing, the quarks, are these tiny little things in the middle of the cloud. In fact, if you follow the evolution to infinitely short distances, the triggering charge goes to zero. If you really study the equations, it gets almost mystical." More info here: discovermagazine.com...

Another question? Saw this on ‘Genius Forum’ Is there substance that holds all things together? According to the ‘Bundle Theory’ there isn't. It says all things are just bundles or sums of their properties. The objection to this view comes from the substrate theory which asks: If there is no substance what is it that holds these properties together? There must be some substance that has these properties is what they say.

We never reach the substance because whenever we talk about something we talk about its properties. The definition of substance makes it impossible. Substance would be something that has no properties, which is unthinkable.

At the fundamental level all things are made out of subatomic particles, if I'm not mistaken. Namely, electrons, protons and neutrons. The number of protons in a nucleus determines an atom's chemical element, and chemical elements and their various combinations are what everything is made of (excluding dark energy and dark matter).

However there is an even more fundamental level. Leptons, quarks (particles that make up protons and neutrons) and gauge bosons (which are the carriers of fundamental forces) are regarded as fundamental particles because they have no substructure that we know of. If this is true then they are the particles from which everything else is made of, which makes them the closest we get to substance.”


7) God is LIGHT and the speed of light

Bible Verse: I John 1:5 Verse: This is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
Thought: The language in this passage is not metaphorical. John does not assert that God is "like light" or that he "can be compared to light." He asserts that God is light, and contrasts this light to darkness. Darkness is the absence of light.
Speed of Light: Is defined such that the speed of light in a vacuum is exactly 299,792,458 miles per second.

So… If you could spin a carousel fast enough to get its rim moving at nearly the speed of light, would time stand still for people on the carousel? At least in the theoretical sense, this idea is reasonable. If the carousel were spinning so that the outer edge of the carousel moved at nearly the speed of light, then time would appear to slow down for people on the carousel. When the carousel riders looked out at the world spinning by, the days would pass very quickly. So the people on the carousel would age very slowly relative to people not on the carousel. This would create, essentially, a time machine that lets the passengers on the carousel travel into the future. Certainly there are scientists that surmise there is no time at a post speed of light dimension?


8) God is ETERNAL
Bible Verses: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world
are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:20
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God,
be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. John 4:24
The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
Deuteronomy 33:27

9) Infinite vs. Finite: Since there is (supposedly) no time in eternity…at that realm there is no past, present and future. How does ‘vantage point’ help with perception? God did say IAM that IAM…from what I’ve studied that means the continual state of BEING. Could that be past the speed of light being? Eternity? Another dimension?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I don't get it. Why am I not getting any answer from you to any of my questions?

Are you ignoring me?

Or you can not answer me and wont admit it?


BTW, yes I like your sense of humor and we are thinking on the level



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Sry for getting of subject, but would you mind if i asked you a question on Faith?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


I will try to answer if you dont mind. It depends on how many games you play.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I don't get it. Why am I not getting any answer from you to any of my questions?

Are you ignoring me?

Or you can not answer me and wont admit it?


BTW, yes I like your sense of humor and we are thinking on the level



Sorry DA, what questions specifically am i ignoring? This thread has been hopping, sorry...one more time?

OT



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by OldThinker
 


Sry for getting of subject, but would you mind if i asked you a question on Faith?



no prob!


Please go ahead, ok?

OT



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I agree with Newton.
But not within a Judeo-Christian framework.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Ok here it is.

How would one increase his Faith insomuch to as show the power of it to a non believer. Or can they, thinking of Jesus when he was back in Nazarath, show it to a non-believer.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Okay thank you.

This is not the first time I've debate with OT, nor it will be the last



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