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Why can’t Creationists teach an alternative? Are the ‘free thinkers’ - atheists scared of som

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posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


You know I'm still waiting for that verification that you walked without a pulse or blood pressure. I'm seriously not surprised that you haven't delivered.




posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


What sort of proof are you looking for ????

Maybe you are asking the wrong questions or maybe you don't know what to ask ???

[edit on 21-8-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 

Documentation - what you describe is pretty fantastic (and I mean that term in the proper way) so I would expect the medical staff to have made a fuss, so newspaper article or perhaps even a TV news segment, article in a medical journal or perhaps even an internet news site (although there are some shifty sites out there).



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Just because those people were right about some things, doesn't mean that they were right about everything. Some things that they could be wrong about include religion.

It was also not uncommon for past scientists to claim religion in order to "fit in" to their respective societies. Newton for example would have been outcast if he had flat-out denied the existence of God.

I'm not saying that Newton was an atheist, in fact he did much writing about religion. I am merely saying that denying God was not an option for some of these people, they lived in societies that did not tolerate religious dissent.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


Have you forgotten what I wrote regarding this, or did you just not take any notice of what you read...

What happened to me, was a very common occurrence back then, 35 years ago, but perhaps you weren't born then ???

If I did manage to get hold of medical records for you, they would be written in the normal way, Not as a spectacular event or as some religious miracle.

And with regards to News Papers... Why would one want to get publicity.... Really come on be intelligent ????

These records would just have the every day to day information, such as the fact of having died, that I recovered and the fact, the cause was unknown.

Look its quite common that people die and return again, while many others have NDE's..

There is a huge amount of BS on this subject propagated by armchair experts, who have never been involve with this phenomena, or who have obtained very little second hand and incomplete literature.

But in my country I doubt very much if the records (mine) even exist now.

About the only records, would involve dental records or records of someone having surgery and even then only basic information is kept...

What happened to me was nothing special referring to medical science except those who may have been studying this phenomena at the time.

But this is common knowledge.

It is Not a popular field of Science as it is very sensitive, and few want to study what will happen to them at any time...

Humankind is still obsessively superstitious about death, and are very insecure, in researching this subject... You only have to observe the comments of religious people and the Sceptics such as your self.

As for those similar to me do Not wish to share their experiences because of human nature which you have already given us a good display of over the last day or two.

But in my case, my time (end) in this program is not far away, so it doesn't affect me in the way it does you, or the younger generation.

I can tell it in a candid way, because I am comfortable with the understanding I obtained over the last 35 years since the death experience.
.
.
.
However if you research "Premature Burial" in both the Western and Eastern Countries such as in Asia, I am sure you will find such medical studies.

But be warned it may not be a very pleasant subject for you to pursue...
So if you do not have a strong stomach I would not recommend that you do...

Thousands of bodies that were exhumed and reburied for many different reasons, many showed they came conscious of this world in their coffins...

Some have had mental breakdowns as a result of researching this area...

If I had Not experienced death myself, I would have found this field of work near impossible to cope with.

When ever I have come in contact with medical staff, which I have on odd occasions, one being a hunting accident I was in, I was asked many questions by medical staff about the experience I had experiencing death in 1973...

The reason being because of the length of time I was dead in my case more than 30 minutes.

Usually the medical profession is fascinated but don't want to look too deeply.

There have been cases of people coming to, while embalming is being carried out. Though this is Not so common, but I could have become one of these.

The main medical interest, was to do with the determining of clinical death.

Most of the work done in this area, involves policies and the Certification of Death.

However there is a lot of work being done in this subject involving consciousness, but as you know it is so controversial, very little is being released to the general public.

So this is why it is very difficult to find any in depth studies within Medical Science...

But if you were involved in a Credible Medical Research Facility, I am sure you would get access to the Information that could help you, with your interest.

I did Not have a religious revelation, in the way you would understand and I do not have a human type god I follow.

gods are for those insecure individuals that need to pretend rather than consider the phenomena of death..

If you look through any of my posts, I often refer to religious material but this does not mean I am religious.

In fact most church people don't like me at all...

But it is a way to bridge the gap, for some who are interested.

The work I am involved with, is with developing Interactive Interfaces with The Mind...

This is a very involved area and there are many different fields of science involved, From Neurologists, Cellular Science, Psychologists, Computer technicians, Theorists, and Analytics technicians etc.

My activity is in Computer systems hardware, but not of the type, you are conversant with.


[edit on 21-8-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 





I'm sorry, what you're talking about happening is not like premature burial. What happens there is the heart beat fades as the person goes into a stasis-like near death and are presumed dead. I understand that, and it's widely covered and documented by medicine.

One thing you cannot do is both be conscious and capable of walking!

Without blood pressure or a detectable heartbeat, the brain can't sustain consciousness because it's not getting the resources it needs. The brain is a truly hungry organ.

But walking takes this to a new height of BS.


You need some corroborating evidence for this seemingly impossible event, otherwise I have no reason to believe you. "Extraordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence." And what you claim certainly is extra-ordinary.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Welfhard
You need some corroborating evidence for this seemingly impossible event, otherwise I have no reason to believe you. "Extraordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence." And what you claim certainly is extra-ordinary.


Keep in mind that what is extra-ordinary is so subjective it has little meaning...



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 



One thing you cannot do is both be conscious and capable of walking!


Bingo.......

That is exactly my point.... Consciousness is Not of the Brain!

Your Brain is Not "Aware" of anything at all !

The Brain is only a Decoder/Encoder.... Any Computer technician can grasp this....

I suppose you are going to tell us next that Computers, cars, blenders, and any other form of operating machinery is also Alive...

Obviously you know nothing at all, about Premature Burials....

As you know your body is only of Biological Robotics so is nothing more than a Machine...

Machines in your world Don't Live !!!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


Bingo.......

That is exactly my point.... Consciousness is Not of the Brain!

Your Brain is Not "Aware" of anything at all !

Screw consciousness, the brain isn't even capable of sending impulses to your muscles and all sensory systems would also fail.

It's crap..... unless you can show it actually happens, then and only then does your argument have merit beyond faith.


Obviously you know nothing at all, about Premature Burials....

Your unwillingness to argue rationally is starting to wish you were buried prematurely.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


Sometimes we just need to walk away from these people and their comments. I don't really even want to respond to Matrix Traveller or OldTimer ever again to be honest...
I have found the splendors of the ignore button recently, and I can say it is a wonderful, most useful, tool for these kinds of situations.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


If you are without LIFE, it is impossible for you to know LIFE....

It does Not Matter what we believe, you are powerless to change the Truth...

I hope you find what you are looking for...

Just be certain it is what you really want ???

Good fortune with Learning about yourself...

But aging will teach you more about yourself, than anything else, apart from partaking in the experience of what human Primates call Death..

This is Impossible for you to escape, and The Truth will be known then....

I rest my case....

Good to have had the debate with you, as you can Not un-see, what you have seen...

It all comes out in the wash in the end....



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by makinho21
 





posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


I rest my case...

Then you have lost the argument.

You've been unable to best the materialistic explanation at any step and have provided nothing but conjecture and an anecdote, hardly a winning material.

I'm only asking for corroborating evidence which should not be difficult for such an alleged remarkable event.

You claim much truth and deliver nothing but faith.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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Why does spirituality has to be christianity centric?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


What is your problem Little one, why do you lust after bring religion into everything ???

I think you are still religious and are ashamed to admit it....



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 

What is your problem Little one, why do you lust after bring religion into everything ?

I didn't say religion, I said faith. Without evidence you have one of two things. Uncertainty or faith.


I think you are still religious and are ashamed to admit it

In what way would you possibly think I'm religious. Science/Hard naturalism is the antithesis of religion.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


Having observed your "style" for a period of time, I've finally decided to actually comment.

Pseudo-Intellectual BS mixed with cryptic mysticism is not a very convincing debating style.
Try, at least once to give a straight response to a question, you may find it refreshing.
Acting superior does not make it fact. Try enlightening those you find to be unenlightened.
Oh, and I would be very interested to see you represent a multi-dimensional experience (the universe we live in) using two dimensional drawings..geometric or otherwise. So stop stalling and put them up for scrutiny...the proof of any pudding is in the eating ..after all.



[edit on 21-8-2009 by EdCase512]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by EdCase512
 


Perhaps You would be incapable of understanding ???

Sorry but I am not interested in coming down into the gutter to brawl...

Look don't fret, you will no doubt have all your answers, on the day you take your last breath.

So don't be impatient, for that day to come.

You may bring it on quicker than you think, being under all that stress...


Lighten up and take a deep breath, or even have a laugh...

You take Life way too seriously...

Take a break, or have a holiday or just have a Laugh or two...



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


I only say this because you have accused me of being religious and for no other reason.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


Perhaps You would be incapable of understanding ???

Sorry but I am not interested in coming down into the gutter to brawl...


.....And that is what yielding to defeat looks like boys and girls.




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