Phoenix: Dozens of armed citizens attend todays Obama Speech

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posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by grover
 


Answer my question.




posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 


No one is threatening your right to arm bears so why bring guns to a rally about health care?



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


In London, England - you do not have a right to carry firearms. Use a better example, not examples from other countries. Depending on the state, you also do not always have a right to carry firearms in a town or city. A group of protestors with loaded weapons facing riot police doesn't sound like a good idea for the protestors.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Sardot
 


How completely ignorant. Did you not read the post you were responding to? Maybe you just couldn't comprehend it. The poster was not stating that they have that right in london, and that's the point. If they did, things may have been different. Alot of police are bullies and cowards and would turn tail and run the moment their lives were truly in danger. Look at the columbine massacre, how many police were hiding behind their cruisers outside, even with all their body armor, while CHILDREN were dying? Look at new orleans, they all abandoned their jobs because of a few street gangs. As long as the armed protesters kept their cool, all would be well and the jackboots wouldn't start beating people, it's win win. And, if the police were to press the issue with violence, they would be the ones with something to worry about, IMO.




[edit on 25-8-2009 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by mattifikation
 


No one is threatening your right to arm bears so why bring guns to a rally about health care?


No one is threatening your right to assemble so why assemble at a rally about health care?

You bring a gun to a rally about health care because you can.

Now answer my question. Don't dodge it a third time. It was: "Every time you talk, are you making a show of your right to free speech because somebody is threatening it, or are you simply talking?"

You have no business asking me further questions - and I won't answer them - until you've taken the courtesy to answer mine.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by mattifikation]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 


That is a stupid argument.

I talk because as a human that is what we do but talking and morons who bring guns to political rallies have nothing in common.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by mattifikation
 


That is a stupid argument.

I talk because as a human that is what we do but talking and morons who bring guns to political rallies have nothing in common.


Bearing arms is a God given right

Why do you hate the American Constitution?



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by mattifikation
 


That is a stupid argument.

I talk because as a human that is what we do but talking and morons who bring guns to political rallies have nothing in common.


It's not a stupid argument. A right is a right. When you distinguish between the ones we can use all the time, and the ones we can use only some of the time, you are effectively saying that one of them is not actually a right. Free Speech doesn't end until you do something like yell "FIRE!" in a theater, just as the Right To Bear Arms doesn't end until you run into a crowd firing your gun into the air.

Notice that it was okay with the Secret Service, an agency so dedicated to protecting the President that part of their duty is to jump in front of bullets. It was okay with local law enforcement, who are so supportive of the man's rights that they actually took *protecting HIM* into consideration. Notice that it was even okay with Barrack Obama, who would have been the most likely target of any gun-toting terrorists in the crowd and yet he did nothing to have the man removed.

It's just you and a few other people who seem to have no idea what the phrases "Open Carry State" and "Shall not be infringed" mean. If the Secret Service - who were THERE on the scene - didn't see a threat and the local police - who were also THERE on the scene - didn't see a threat, where on earth do you get off sitting in your armchair calling the guy a moron and crying about all the dangers and stupidity of it all?



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 


a) I didn't see "Thou shalt bear arms" among the Commandments, but never mind.

b) Please... Grover does not hate the Constitution, why do you have to pull on such pathetic demagoguery here...



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Exodus 22:2 says: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed." - Right to self defense, as provided by God.

Luke 22:36 says: "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'" - Right to bear arms, as provided by Jesus

Not that I believe in all that stuff. I'm just sayin'.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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I am sorry. I just am laughing at the lack of intelligence and maturity that the human race displays. How can someone's brain form a thought like bringing a gun to where the President is at. Maybe their brains aren't forming thoughts and that's the problem. There are other ways to express your freedom. Is it some male peabrained macho fixation with firearms that makes them think it's "cool" or something. It just shows no common sense. Presidential Assassins are a real thing. The Secret Service is not going to know which are exercising their freedom and who is a wacko. It just make their job all that much harder because some simpleton thinks "if I don't take my gun I wont get my fifteen minutes of fame or that will mean I lost my freedom or I just want to look cool." Give me a break. Gun's are made to Kill people there is no stun setting on them. You feel it necessary to carry around an instrument of death because it's your right? Your right to kill? I mean why else carry it? Oh yeah protection....I forgot about all the firefights in Arizona that happen on a daily basis...that's why they carry guns. (If you'll excuse me I'll go throw up now)



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by guardstarr
 


guard, it's folks like you with your half-empty view of rights that scares the crap out of me.

Your views of firearms are uninformed, immature, unknowing, and generally dumb.

How many folks shot at the President?

The difference between one who carries a weapon and one who doesn't carry a weapon is a matter of awareness, deliberation, skill, knowledge, and experience.

In my several years, I've never, ever, seen a weapon load, aim, and discharge itself. Not once.

You are attacking the firearms, and what you really fear is those who carry firearms.

You don't understand them, so you ridicule them.

No one was breaking the law - so what's your REAL problem?

Fear.

I have no problem with folks who fear firearms because they were raised some kind of *ed up. Given irrational fears as a child. So you tend to your mittens in your preferred manner, and others of us will tend to our mittens in our preferred manner, all legal, and exercising our rights as we see fit, when we see fit, and the occasion does not invalidate a right.

That's why it's a right.

You don't want to carry a firearm - then DON'T!

Keep your childhood fears to yourself.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Yawn...your attempt to analyze the reasoning behind my statements was laughable...You must be one of those people that think guns belong in movie theaters or Disneyland eh? Are you one of those civilians that wear camouflage everyday and drive a green jeep with a NRA sticker on it? So tell me if you can what guns and a Presidential Rally have in common? Give a real thought out answer not just to show the right to bear arms. I mean really, what's the reason for carrying an instrument of death around a peaceful rally? Does it make you feel big and strong or something?



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by guardstarr
 


Open. Carry. State.

That means it doesn't mean jack-diddly-squat if it's a "peaceful rally," you can still carry a gun there. You think he's stupid for carrying a gun. I think you're stupid for spelling "star" wrong in your username. Some people think having a bumper sticker that says "Cops Suck" is stupid. Just because some people think something is stupid, that doesn't invalidate the right to do it.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 


That is just the kind of no brainer reply I was expecting to get. You take the cake on worthless replies. I never just said "It's stupid." I actually gave a well thought out argument and asked for a question to be answered intelligently. I can see now that this is just not going to happen. I just wont waste my time with people who favor bullets over brains.
By the way I didn't misspell star I just spelled it differently. What, you think Ringo Starr is stupid to because he spelled it "wrong". Just take a breath and relax...it'll be okay man. You can't always be right.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by guardstarr
I mean really, what's the reason for carrying an instrument of death around a peaceful rally? Does it make you feel big and strong or something?


It's people like you that most often end up lying face down in a puddle of blood when a non-law abiding citizen decides they want what you have, or just snaps and decides to take as many people out as they can before they kill themselves. The reason is very clear. I know you can't see past your political blinders, but just suppose one of those carrying a firearm noticed out of the corner of their eye somebody that was able to conceal a weapon, and found a weakness in the president's security. The law abiding citizen would then be in a position to save the president. I would always prefer NOT to have to use it, but we carry instruments of death to level the playing field and protect our loved ones and others from those who do wish to use instruments of death on innocent others. The police are by no means reliable, or timely. Guns will never be removed from this country. The moment they became illegal, an entirely new black market kingdom would be built, guns would likely be much easier for bad people to get. The more good, well-trained, and aware people who carry, the better. So many tragedies and massacres could have been cut short, if there had been somebody there with the ability to stop them dead in their tracks, literally.

[edit on 26-8-2009 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by guardstarr
 

I didn't attempt to analyze your statements. I've been around long enough to have seen the same damned thing hundreds of times. Some folks with an irrational fear of firearms were often raised that way. Irresponsible parents, afraid themselves of firearms, passed on their irrational fears to their offspring. Who pass it on. And on.

The point is, it doesn't matter where a gun is carried - Disneyland is fine if one is so inclined, as is the movie theater as you suggested.

You are among the most naive people on the planet. You actually THINK there's a proper place for firearms, and other places where firearms should not be allowed?

You think the presence of one person should qualify to abrogate a right? You're mighty selective about your arbitrary determinations on rights, aren't you? Unjustified, as I don't see you as that smart.

All those murders that occur every year? You alone could stop them, as you purport to KNOW where potential dangers lie, and where they don't. By your logic, they should have died as they SHOULD have known they were going to be murdered at that place and at that time.

You think you can actually pick and choose the areas where dangers threaten? You think you can anticipate where evil folks will strike?

You should have your own Vegas show. Mind reading.

Unless . . . you're an undertaker and love to see the bodies roll in.

Worshipers are attacked and killed in church, mall shoppers are attacked and killed while shopping, folks are kidnapped and later killed from well-lit parking lots, folks are killed at home while trying to sell a camper or boat, folks are killed in restaurants, in schools, in universities, on and on and on.

The cops are not responsible for my safety. I am. Nor yours. You are.

Your not very well thought-out question was, "what do guns and a Presidential rally have in common?"

Three things:

One is the Right to Assemble as evidence by the gathering,

the Right to Free Speech as evidence by the signs and yelling, and

the Right to Bear Arms as some folks were apparently doing.

Wow. Three rights expressed, as guaranteed by our Constitution, in one meeting. It doesn't get much better than that.

The dumbest pansies were aghast at the DISPLAYED firearms, but never gave much though to the many licensed conceal-carry firearms that I guarantee you were there as well.

Forgot about those, didn't you?

And no, sonny-boy, I don't drive a Jeep, I don't have NRA stickers, I don't wear camoflage unless hunting, I don't wear a cap, I don't chew, and yes, I've already taken my scalps so I don't have this need to prove anything.

You're apparently wrong again.

I can look at my uniform in the back of the closet and see the personal decorations specifically for valor for verification.

I have zero misconceptions about firearms, zero illusions as to capability, I know EXACTLY how I react during a firefight after scores and scores of meeting engagements, I do not have any doubts about my capabilities, I clearly am aware of my limitations, and I have no desire for a repeat.

Unlike you, I know the dangers, I know the irrational bastards are likely to show up anywhere at any time, I know the odds, and I know how I will react.

I know.

That's the difference between you and I.

You need to get out more.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by guardstarr
reply to post by mattifikation
 


I actually gave a well thought out argument


Haha... according to whom? Yourself?
I didn't know you were in such a position of high regard. Forgive me, my self proclaimed well thinker outer.




and asked for a question to be answered intelligently.


At no point have you asked such a question. In fact, you haven't asked any questions, except for a few sentences that were merely baseless, uninformed insults with question marks after them.


I can see now that this is just not going to happen.


You're absolutely right. With your manner of asking rhetorical, insultingly-posed questions and your complete lack of etiquette, you are most certainly not going to illicit intelligent debate. You can't just barge in with manure like "I just am laughing at the lack of intelligence and maturity that the human race displays. How can someone's brain form a thought like bringing a gun to where the President is at. Maybe their brains aren't forming thoughts and that's the problem," then insist that said manure was a "well thought out argument," and expect people to take you seriously.



I just wont waste my time with people who favor bullets over brains.


Believe it or not, it's possible to favor both. Idiocy doesn't come with having the "wrong" political viewpoint. Idiocy comes with closing one's mind and assuming the other side is always retarded.



By the way I didn't misspell star I just spelled it differently. What, you think Ringo Starr is stupid to because he spelled it "wrong". Just take a breath and relax...it'll be okay man. You can't always be right.


I don't care about you, Ringo, or the spelling of "Starr." Relax sonny. I was only making a point: Some people might think you're dumb for calling yourself that, but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to. Reading between the lines shouldn't be such a problem for somebody with your superior intellect, should it?


You take the cake on worthless replies.


Yeah, you're one to talk.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Groan......Did you practice that speech in front of a mirror with patriotic music playing in the background. Good Lord what a load of you know what. YOU are not going to change my opinion or stance on anything. I would not want to be anything like you. A gun at Disneyland???? You think that's ok? Wouldn't want you around kids. Good luck getting through the gates. Guns are deadly. PERIOD. Legal or illegal they serve one purpose. To kill. You think that is good eh? That is really sad. I'm not against the right to bear arms. I'm against guns in general. They represent violence and because of its invention countless people have died. You think that's a good thing? Listen if you want to delude yourself into thinking you are a super hero and one day you'll spring into action and save a life on the street don't forget to wear your superman t-shirt ok? I will not be posting anymore replies on this board because conversing with gun freaks has become very tiresome and pointless.

It's pointless.

I know.

I know.


[edit on 26-8-2009 by guardstarr]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by guardstarr
 


Ah, you're one of those "If we just pretend the world is sunshine and roses, it will BECOME sunshine and roses" people. That explains a lot. Seriously, a LOT.

You are incapable of separating ideal theories from painful realities. Guns are here. You can't get rid of them all. There's just no way. "They should have never been invented" is a weak argument, because the hard truth is they WERE invented. The hard truth is you CAN'T remove them all from the earth.

The only option left is to make sure that the bad guys aren't the only people who have them. And no, there's nothing wrong with a law abiding citizen having a legally owned gun at Disney World. You think Mickey's got a 9 under his costume in case some nutter goes after your kids? Maybe some day, such a citizen will save the life of somebody important to you from one of the bad guys, who don't give a flying flip if guns are illegal or should never have been invented. Then you'll feel like a real dope.



[edit on 26-8-2009 by mattifikation]





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