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Ha, get a laugh out of this

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


Ah, statistics. By cherrypicking the defining parameters, one can make any point that is desired. In this case, the parameter which causes the conclusion is by comparing all deaths by physicians to only "accidental" deaths by firearm. If you use consistent criteria of all deaths by firearms, the number jumps to 30,896 (per the CDC for 2006. That gives a rate of.3862, meaning you are two and a quarter times more likely to be killed by a gun than a doctor.
BTW, I own 6 guns and have always, at least as an adult, owned firearms. Oh yeah, I am also a doctor (of forensic chemistry) but I'm very unlikely to kill you in that capacity, particularly since you're probably already dead when I meet you.




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:29 AM
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LOL, wonder how the UK would look if we did a stat like that.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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What are the stats for South Africa?
2nd line!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


What irony is this? Your title was on target. Ha! But really its not even funny because its just another one of those things that prove how common sense has gone the way of the dinosaur - extinct.

I'm going to share this with my family to see what their reactions will be. The ones that survived their doctors care that is.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy
Like a condom, an airbag or a shield protects? Or in that they give you the chance to KILL THE OTHER GUY FIRST? See how even if they're being used to 'protect' they're still just fulfilling their function to kill / maim?


Why do you think the police and military carry guns? Go and tell those guys they don't need them, because they aren't for protection.



How about this one, you get hit by a car - the drive jumps out and says OH MY GOSH CALL A DOCTOR! I idle up from the pavement, cooly i smile and say 'don't worry i have a .44 Magnum!'


Right, and are you going to hold up a condom, airbag or shield and say the same thing? Is a condom going to protect you in that place? So does that mean the condom never has a place where it can protect you?

And you say I am the one with tricks? Please.



haha or think of it thisway, when someone collapses on stage how many times have you heard someone take the mike and say 'is their a gunowner in the house?'


Same logical fallacy, they are going to pop up and ask if someone has a condom either.





Actually most doctors i've pointed at someone and squeeze have told me to get off them or they'll call the police. I'm sure if i asked my local doctor if he would be my 'protection' while i deal some crack on the street corner he would have me commited. Last time my friends 6yo sneeked into my study and found the doctor laying on the counter he gave her a stern telling off.

Most doctors train to save people, everything they learn is how to help people. A gun is made by people who are trying to create the most stopping power, best range, most accurate sites - all so that it's a better killing machine.

Are you seriously trying to say a doctor is as deadly as a gun?


Can be. It's all in which the manner they are used.





If you never intended to mow the lawn would you buy a lawnmower? of course you wouldn't! People buy guns because they expect to have to kill someone one day, or they like practiceing or pretending they're killing people. Guns are weapons, if you aren't strong enough to admit that then i really don't think you should have one.


I'm not someone who owns a gun, nor do I care to own one, or ever use one again. I am ex-military, so I know very well how to use one. The reason I like guns to be legal is because the person on the other end doesn't know if I have a gun or not. As such, just the very threat that I could be armed provides me with a bit of protection against someone who may want to harm me.

This has been proven in cities that allow concealed weapons. In cities that have strict gun laws, the criminal can pretty much bet on the victim not being armed. As such, this gives the criminal - who doesn't care about the gun laws to begin with - free reign over me. But when concealed weapons are legal, he has no way of knowing if I am armed or not, and will think twice about doing it. That is how guns being legal protect me - and that is without me even owning one.

I'd personally rather die than kill another person. I am a complete pacifist. In my opinion, it is better to die than to take up a gun and kill another person. So you can't use these tired old catch-lines and stereotypes on me. That is my choice, and if someone wants to choose otherwise it's not my place to stop them, and I recognize the protection and benefits it provides for me.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:45 AM
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A gun is indeed a tool.

A wrench is a tool. My screw driver is a tool. My drill is a tool. All can be used as a weapon, but their main function is a tool. They are designed for bolts and screws. My gun is a tool to increase my survival odds in a certain life threatening situation.

My gun is a weapon as well, and a very effective one. I do not wish to carry my gun for any other function then firing a projectile at a life threatening target. Whether this target be some sort of wild animal while I walk my land in northern PA, or someone wishing me or my family harm in the city.

There is no other reason why anyone should own and carry a gun (outside of hunting, but I don't think that is the point here).


[edit on 18-8-2009 by Xtinguish]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Cool Breeze
reply to post by NatureBoy
 


Ok rambo, you chased the guy from your house.... Now he's at your dear old mothers house, it's 4am and dark. Slowly she creeks down the stairs and pushes open the kitchen door, a shaddow in the night, jumpy our friend spins around and BANG BANG BANG your unarmed mother, too frail and old to dive for cover is now laying in a pool of blood on the floor....

Sure you MIGHT be able to best a crackaddled fool maybe 9 out of 10 times, maybe 99 out of a hundred times - I doubt the odds are so good for all your loved ones, or is rambo gonna protect everyone at once?




For your scenario my friend what is to stop the guy with a knife from getting everthing he wants? I know you said you know how to defend yourself but your chances against a knife when you are unarmed are not very good. The intruder could get in a lucky shot and then what?


I might have mentioned i know how to fight, this means when i am within arms reach of my attacked i have chance - when he is 20foot away pointing a sorn-off at me then their is nothing i can do.

also LUCKY SHOT?!?!? NOW YOU WORRY ABOUT A LUCKY SHOT?!?!? So the guy in your house holding on of the most deadly weapons ever invented won't get a lucky shot and end your life in an instant by my guy will?!? no fair


I actually have a few scars from back when we used to train disarming or controlling a knife attack with real blades, mostly they are on my left forearm (topside) but i have one over my ribs too - of course it depends of the situation what happens - some large dude with his weight back and a protective arm shielding and i just have to hand over my money, i'm fine with that, some street kid crack junky who can barely life the weight of his weapon - I don't have to hand over anything, you however have to empty your pockets.... The gun makes week people strong, i'm not week so i rather no one else has them.

You're worried because they'll take your gun away and you'll be helpless and week? You have this hero idea all played out in your head, it'll go down just like the movies right? Well maybe, just make sure you get it right on the first take....

[edit on 18-8-2009 by NatureBoy]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 


The fear is not that our guns will be taken to leave us helpless and weak against some assailant.

No, rather the fear is it will leave US ALL helpless and weak against a tyrannical government.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by Xtinguish
A gun is indeed a tool.

A wrench is a tool. My screw driver is a tool. My drill is a tool. All can be used as a weapon, but their main function is a tool. They are designed for bolts and screws. My gun is a tool to increase my survival odds in a certain life threatening situation.

My gun is a weapon as well, and a very effective one. I do not wish to carry my gun for any other function then firing a projectile at a life threatening target. Whether this target be some sort of wild animal while I walk my land in northern PA, or someone wishing me or my family harm in the city.

There is no other reason why anyone should own and carry a gun (outside of hunting, but I don't think that is the point here).


[edit on 18-8-2009 by Xtinguish]


Id have to agree with that, there are far to many extremist Muslims in UK, if a Jihad was to be called we'd be in a sorry state! But i got supply's


In fact a recent study said in 20 years there would be enough of them to vote there own Government in. If there the wrong sort of Muslim that would be catastrophic!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia



Why do you think the police and military carry guns? Go and tell those guys they don't need them, because they aren't for protection.


Why for killing people of course! Sometimes when you have a nut with a gun your only option is to kill him before he can kill again, sad but true.



Right, and are you going to hold up a condom, airbag or shield and say the same thing? Is a condom going to protect you in that place? So does that mean the condom never has a place where it can protect you?

And you say I am the one with tricks? Please.

No i agree, you have no defence against a gun - that's why we should keep them out the hands of street punks by banning them!



Same logical fallacy, they are going to pop up and ask if someone has a condom either.

No, i was refering to the DOCTOR which this thread is about, the deadly deadly doctor. The juxtaposition was suppose to show the difference between a deadly weapon and someone trained to save lives.



Can be. It's all in which the manner they are used.

Oh dear, oh dear, you must have missed my resoning again - i was trying to say that doctors are 'used' in almost all cases to help people, it's their life's work.... A gun by design only kills thus we can't compare the two.



I'm not someone who owns a gun, nor do I care to own one, or ever use one again. I am ex-military, so I know very well how to use one. The reason I like guns to be legal is because the person on the other end doesn't know if I have a gun or not. As such, just the very threat that I could be armed provides me with a bit of protection against someone who may want to harm me.

No it convinces them that they need a gun themselves, like i said earlier the odds of someone entering your house carrying a gun are much higher if they assume that you are likely to pull one on them. You don't shoot someone in the uk, not even if they're in your house - in america it's fine to pull the trigger if you feel threatened.... this actually changes the situation dramaticly, if i thought that i might be shot then of course i would shoot first -it's your sole hope of surviving! This logic isn't lost on your average criminal, it becomes standard practive to take a gun on each and every robbery but it also adds to the pressure of that first instant, the choice weather to shoot or not, if on one hand you're likely to blown away then that other option, whatever it is, will be the one you take. It's a standard fight or flight instant reaction, most people don't even have a real choice in what they do - it's all fear controlled, if you have a reasonable fear of getting beaten to the draw then your brain will do everything it can to win that race - if you're better of playing it cool, seeing how the situation pans out then your brain will likely take that option... I don't want the sensible theives to think they only have a second to kill me before i kill them, certainly not if the only thing i have in my hand is the TV remote!



it's not my place to stop them, and I recognize the protection and benefits it provides for me.

So you don't mind that i've been making a Tsar Nuke in my basement? I own 500 viles of Small Pox? I live in the appartment above you and it's stacked with cans of petrol and sticks of TNT?

You would have to draw the line somewhere, people can't just put eveyone else at risk becuase 'it's their right' - guns rase the danger level in any society; the accidental firings, crazy kids, bell tower wackjobs and not least the criminal-homeowner arms race. Other people owning guns does nothing to protect you, rather it puts you in more danger.


[edit on 18-8-2009 by NatureBoy]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
This takes the cake.

Proud "gun nut" right here. I think the facts clearly speak for themselves.


Facts completely taken out of context can be construed to say anything.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by Xtinguish
 


haha, did you miss my post about how pathetic hunting rifles are no match for tanks, bombs and pilotless drones? If you want to oppose the US army you better be coming with something better than sidearms mu'kay?

Also don't you think it's a bit late? HELLO? Look at the state america is in, what you going to do about it? Hang on, let me ask David Koresh....



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 



I think if a doctor see you more than 5 mins. he might discover your real illness... until then take two of these and sign over your bank account and first born.


[edit on 18-8-2009 by BornPatriot]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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I wonder what views people will have of Doctors after millions of people start dropping after the Swine Flu vaccination's.

Just a thought.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 


Wow you really lost touch with reality like so many have today.

We use guns for food after all it's kind of hard to sneak up on a deer and strangle it without getting mauled yourself.

When you have a rabid dog/wolf/skunk or what ever you have to have a gun to put it down after all it will maul you especially if it's wild and yes they do attack unprovoked once rabies sets in.

I was attacked twice as a child first time I was only months old and a dog came after me in the backyard in the middle of the city.

Second time I was about 12 on the farm and it was a wolf or coyote not sure which.

Both times needed a gun to divert the threat.

Last thing I want is to do hand to hand combat with a bear after all at that point I know I'm dead, not to mention the mountain lion problem we had a few years ago when they started migrating into the city area's and attacking people and pets.

If you see gun and think it's about killing people then you need to get out more or move out of the big city your in because you obviously have no idea what a gun is really intended for. It's just a perk that if you have one drawn on you it's legal to take that person out but that's the last thing we are worried about around here.

Edit: After reading the rest of the posts will add this. I use to own guns for hunting and such and have shot chances are 10,000's of bullets and never hit a single person.

I have been to the doctor about 5 times in my life and 2 times I died due to whoopsy daisy's by the doctors. Both times I was accidentally over dosed on meds. Of course it was an accident but to this day refuse to go until I'm already dead.

I no longer own guns but so help them god if they come in wielding a gun if they are within 20 feet of me or so they are dead. I have all kinds of knives to include throwing knives and razors. Just remember that deck of cards may not actually be a typical deck of cards lol. *May not be legal in all states if any I'm not sure never looked but the items are available to anyone whom wants them.) If their in arms reach they will never hit me as the reaction time to my action will be about a second too long. If they just walk in and pull the trigger with my back turned it is way less painful than a cut throat.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Darthorious]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


Are you suggesting a whole new line of weapons?

WMD=Weapons of Medical diagniosis?
RPV=Remotely piloted vaccine?

Cluster muntions that release insurance forms?

Podiatry commandos released behind enemy lines armed with sensible shoes and reminder cards when they will return?

Is there no end to the madness!!!




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
Next time you are ill, don't bother going to see a doctor, they are too dangerous. Instead, take your gun, stick the barrel in your mouth, and pull the trigger. And don't forget, guns don't kill people.


..wow, not sure the relevance of suicide and accidental deaths... Yeah what is your point exactly? Doctors can make many easy mistakes that can cost people their lives because they are themselves people, imperfect, overworked how ever you want to justify it... A gun is an inanimate object so yes, guns don't kill people, people kill people.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 


If you actually believe the things you post, then I feel sorry for you. I get the feeling you don't actually believe these things, and you are just posting talking points. As you even admitted at the very start that the guns can provide protection - against other nuts. But now you wish to deprive that.

And then you go on to actually believe that making something illegal stops it. About like making drugs illegal has stopped people from taking them. If someone is going to assault you with a weapon, then they do not care what the law says anyway. In fact, you are only removing the weapons from the law abiding citizens, who have a right to protect themselves, just as you called a need for in your post regarding the police and military.

But I'm not going to bother continuing this discussion, because it's really not even needed. They aren't going to be able to do it even if they did make it a law. If you want to believe that making something illegal actually gets rid of things, then I guess that is your right.

When someone goes crazy and kills 20 or 30 people at a gun show, be sure to wake me up and let me know.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by LetTheTruthBeTold
 


HOw silly of me i forgot that you guy are going to rise up and overthrow your government any day now........ refereshed with the blood of.... yeah, yeah....

Here's how it would pan out now,
"Hey bob how big is the revolutionary army?"
'a million men and their pickup trucks'
"and guns?"
'yep we all got hunting rifles and semi automatics'
"and you told the government we're overthrowing them?"
'yep'
"what's that whistling noise bob?"
'sounds like a cruse missile........'
"Oh"

You are not going to win a revolution with guns, thus you might as well drop that stupid old law.

America might not be europe but last time i checked it was on earth and full of humans, pleed special case all you like - simple fact is your nation would be better without guns.


I seem to remember you britts saying that a few years back also, we saw what happened then. One day people will realize the power of a man fighting for freedom holding his favorite gun.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


So I guess guns are more efficient than doctors. While they are intruments of violence they tend to not mess up and leave people alive when they shouldn't. Doctors have the opposite problem, trained for healing, they tend to screw up too much. It's irony, not a right wing declaration.



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