New battery could change world, one house at a time

Good thread, it's hopeful.

What I didn't see (and perhaps missed) is has this new battery improved upon the number of times a battery can be charged, partially-discharged, and then recharged -- i.e. cycles.

The storage batteries I just bought are 110 aH, and are purported to cycle about 4000 times. If a could storage all the energy needed in ONE battery that had a useful life of, say 60 years, THEN we'd really have something.

Solar/wind & battery technology is changing so fast, it reminds me of buying a computer a few years ago -- it seemed like as soon as you got one, it was already obsolete. Right now, I have to hope that my battery array last long enough to pay for itself.

So you have a somewhat inexpensive storage device for the electricity. But what about charging it? You still have to pay a very high amount of money for solar cells plus many people cant install solar cells because of aesthetics, cost or they are prohibited from doing so by their home association.

It would seem the US Government is going to invest somewhat on this sort of thing, Mr Obama has recently been to India following up on some new sort of Battery.

Can't find the actual article but this one's a start.

www.techonlineindia.com...

reply to post by fraterormus

Is it Underwriters Laboratories that is to blame, or the Insurance Companies, or the Power Companies? To be honest, they are all probably in the same bed together. Until someone gets them out of bed with one another, alternative forms of Power in the United States will remain alternative and neither mainstream nor affordable.

Thanks for that information. The farm Show book has information and how to build wind mills and also a small stream turbine I was interested in. Now I find out that as usual we are herded in the direction of paying thru the nose for Cap and Trade or "green technology". I understand General Electric has most of the Green patents

GE, the world's biggest company in terms of market capitalization, called the announcement an "initiative to aggressively bring to market new technologies....

"Ecomagination is GE's commitment to address challenges such as the need for cleaner, more efficient sources of energy, reduced emissions and abundant sources of clean water,"

Immelt said. "And we plan to make money doing it. Increasingly for business, 'green' is green."

He said the company hopes to take in revenues of 20 billion dollars a year on these products by 2010, double the current level.

Immelt said the initiative will include more environmentally friendly technology for wind and solar energy, hybrid locomotives, fuel cells, lower-emission aircraft engines, lighter and stronger materials, efficient lighting and water purification technology.

The company has operations ranging from aircraft engines to insurance to film and broadcasting, and manufactures products ranging from light bulbs to medical scanners.
Source

Well there is the insurance and media connections to "green technology" Mr. Immelt, is a member of Mr. Obama’s economic recovery advisory board.

This is worth looking into

Healthymagination will be in charge of the national patient database, which is established in the stimulus plan. The reports show that GE with Intel Corp is investing $6 billion to improve and make healthcare affordable through Healthymagination, and I have no doubt it is our money they are investing. Healthymagination is founded by GE, and GE’s CEO, Jeffrey Immelt, sits on Obama’s team of economic advisers. Source

It is interesting the blacks have figured out that Obama is in bed with big Pharma and the insurance companies over Obamacare. They have done a much better research job than we have. I congratulate them. Here are excerpts of their ten points. Seems they followed the money!


Top Ten Ways To Tell Your President & His Party Aren't Fighting For Health Care For Everybody

1. Their plan doesn't cover the uninsured till at least 2013.
2013 isn't “day one.” It's not even after the midterm election. It's clear after the president's second term....

2. Their “public option” isn't Medicare, won't bring costs down and will only cover about 10 million people.
The “public option” was sold to the American people as Medicare-scale plan open to anybody who wants in that would compete with the private insurers and drive their costs downward. But in their haste not to bite the hands that feed them millions in campaign contributions each hear, the president and his party have scaled the public option back from a Medicare-sized 130 million to a maximum of 10 million, too small to put cost pressure in private insurers.....

3. The president and his party have already caved in to the drug companies on reimporting Canadian drugs, on negotiating drug prices downward and on generics.

This explains why Big Pharma, the same people who ran the devastatin g series of anti-reform “Harry and Louise” ads to spike the Clinton-era drive to fix health care are spending $100 million to run Obama ads using the president's language about “bipartisan” solutions to health care reform.....

4. The president and his party have received more money from private insurers and the for-profit health care industry than even Republicans, with the president alone taking $19 million in the 2008 election cycle alone, more than all his Repubican, Democratic and independent rivals combined..... Black Agenda Report

From this it looks like they figured out how to "fix" Medicare....Just cut the funding!

reply to post by argentus

The charge/discharge life span you mention is due to undesired chemical reactions that exist within the chemical apparatus of cells. In any battery, an influx of electrons leads to a chemical reaction existing in an unstable configuration. When a battery discharges, that chemical reaction is reversed, leading to a more stable chemical equation along with the expulsion of electrons (current). Since the stored chemical energy contains an unstable chemical arrangement, there is usually some unwanted chemical recombination that does not release electrons through the terminals and leads to compounds that are more or less inert and therefore do not contribute to the operation of the cell and decrease the amounts of chemicals available to undergo desired transformations.

In other words, the chemical energy tends to stabilize itself by other means than expelling electrons.

Ceramics are very stable compounds and apparently this particular ceramic has the ability to act as an electrochemical membrane. Considering the inherent stability of the ceramic membrane, I would assume this arrangement would be more stable and therefore have greater charge/discharge cycles than anything we have today.

I am (obviously?) very excited about this.

TheRedneck

this is great news! there already are some batteries out there which can store & release energy as fast as a capacitor (to be used for regenerative breaks on hybrids).

Originally posted by fraterormus
they are insanely cheap to produce and implement...but not in the United States. The reason being is that Insurance Companies will not insure a home with Turbines and/or Solar Panels unless they are UL (Underwriters Laboratories) Listed and installed by a UL Approved Installer. This jacks up the price at least 10-fold.

For $100 you can make your own Wind Turbine (or cheaper if you salvage those parts from old Automobiles and old Electronics). However, to get your Insurance Company to cover your house, you would have to pay out $1000 - $70,000 for the exact same thing that is UL Listed and installed by a UL Approved Installer.

actually this is a good thing even though the prices are high. the problem is that amateurs copying stuff off youtube can set a house on fire. if you don't know what you're doing you shouldn't be playing with electricity or gas or anything that can release energy.

would you like to come home one day to find your house burnt down because your neighbor set up his own mini-powerplant in the basement?

anyway i think Obama will do more about this alternative energy once he's finished with the current problems... i can still hope

reply to post by TheRedneck

Thanks, my friend. Thank you also for the technical information. Coming you from, this information is extremely important.

reply to post by Phlegmi

You still have to pay a very high amount of money for solar cells plus many people cant install solar cells because of aesthetics, cost or they are prohibited from doing so by their home association.

One of the things that is happening, is that local governments are putting pressure on home associations to allow solar cells on roofs. One of my relatives lives in an association that prohibited them until last yesr, but when pressure was put on it, they caved in, and rewrote the deed restrictions to allow solar cells on the roof.

reply to post by TheRedneck

Thank you, my friend, for giving us that information about recharging. Your contributions to this thread are fantastic.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Thanks! That is what I was hoping. Perhaps before TSHTF I can acquire some storage that will take us into the rest of our lives. For now, I'm going to use AGM batteries -- 16 of them. This is, as you know, a huge investment, and if it weren't for our gigantic power bills and my perceptions of the liklihood of detrimental changes afoot in the near future, we probably wouldn't have invested. We're trying to use our money to invest in goods that will favorably affect our lives, rather than financial investments.

You explained the chemical interactions as well as the ceramics very well. BTW, I'm still hoping to being able to lay my eyes on some of your own AE works in the near future.

Here is the home page for Ceramatec, for those interested. I understand that they are actively seeking funding from the Obama administration for this battery.

www.ceramatec.com...

By the way, for those that want one place for all information about new battery technology, here is a link that gives it to you:

www.sciencedaily.com...

I hope there wont be a cover up on this battery, every time potentially life changing inventions and medicine come around we never hear about it again.

reply to post by anaisnin

Hopefully, if the Obama administration is serious about new technology, this won't end like the others did. This is the administration's chance to prove that they mean what they say about new technology.

reply to post by argentus

All of my current projects and designs on power production include some type of battery bank, which I deem necessary for any truly self-sufficient system. Somehow, power needs to be maintained, even if at a low level, should there be a malfunction. The easiest way to do that is with a battery bank and inverter system. Plus it simplifies the needed electronics in the production stage since batteries can be charged with DC power, and it allows a continuous smaller current to be used as a charger while still allowing for peak load times. Because of this, I have done some calculations on the amount of batteries needed in order to power a typical (in my area) home at 100%, with the capability of delivering the full 200 amps normally allowed for should the demand be there.

What I have come up with is that a bank of (20) 12V lead-acid batteries (in series to deliver 240VDC) would be required to deliver the desired load. That is based off of a 12-hour supply at full average power, and more than allows for the 200 amp surge. Now considering that the average automobile battery now costs around $60.00, that adds up to $1200.00 for the bank. Marine deep-cycle batteries, far preferable due to their ability to deep charge and their recharge lifespan, are closer to $100.00. That battery bank would total up to $2000.00, the same cost as one of these super batteries we are discussing. From the information I have read so far, the new batteries are superior in charge times and stability to the marine batteries, so that makes them an excellent choice now for any 100% system.

The only thing I would caution about is that the first purchasers of any new technology are the guinea pigs for that technology. I would personally wait a couple years to let others find the bugs that always emerge and let the manufacturer correct them before I bought, but of course that is a personal decision.

Except for that concern, this sounds like a great idea!

BTW, I'm still hoping to being able to lay my eyes on some of your own AE works in the near future.

Slowly but surely, I'm working on it. I hope to run some quantitative tests within the next month or so, then it's off to the patent office!

TheRedneck


[edit on 8/18/2009 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Thank you for the kind words, Prof. I'm more than happy to help out where I can.

I really do believe you found a winner here.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

All of my current projects and designs on power production include some type of battery bank, which I deem necessary for any truly self-sufficient system.

I would value you input. My hubby and I have just started talking about a power production system on our farm. We sit on the top of a hill with a fairly decent breeze most of the time. I was think of two ponds at different levels with a generator and a windmill attached to a pump for moving water back to the upper pond. The use of the ponds is to even out the power generated by the wind mill. Would the battery storage still be needed?

We could go with solar since we are in North Carolina but that is very expensive and can not be repaired by us.

reply to post by crimvelvet

Well, I'll be happy to help what I can.

I like the idea of using the ponds to even out deviations in wind speed. It is also easier to design a pump to turn at varying velocities than it is a generator. So speed regulation should not be an issue and wind availability should be a moot point as well.

I assume you will be using some sort of water wheel between the two lakes, connected to a generator. I would recommend an automobile alternator, since it is designed to charge an easily obtainable and fairly inexpensive (for the power output) automobile or marine battery (or battery bank in this case) and can produce quite a bit of power. In my own experience, Chrysler Corporation tends to use heavier alternators than Ford or GM.

I would suggest a battery bank, simply because it does the same thing for power usage that your ponds do for wind power: it allows your power production to continue at a fairly regular pace unaffected by spikes in your power usage. That means that while you have to contend with the cost of the battery bank, you can downsize most of the other components to recoup that expense.

There are two ways to arrange the battery bank. Parallel connections will allow you to easily change the number of batteries you use, and will allow one battery to go out without damaging the entire system. You will need to use an inverter designed for 12V input (as most are), and may have to use multiple inverters to allow for surges in power. Check the industrial surplus sites, though; they do make inverters large enough to power an entire household. These are just quite expensive and quite big... and quite difficult to locate if you're not an industrial contractor.

The other way is series, as I mentioned. I planned on using that arrangement because I can build multiple smaller production units cheaper than a large single unit, which means I can 'stack' the units to charge each battery while it is connected in series. In your case, you would need one alternator for each battery. Also, I planned on designing and building my own inverter (see the problems with getting one pre-made above) and it is easier to do without the step-up required for a 12V unit. To get the 200 amps maximum output from a 12V input, that input would have to be more than 4000 amps! That's a lot of copper pipe to wind around a coil core...

I hope that helped. If I misunderstood anything or you have more questions, feel free to ask.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


A tad off-topic, but perhaps the OP won't mind too much.

I think I benefit in some way or another from nearly every post you make. I think you should be an alternative energy FSME.*


*but only because ATS doesn't seem to have an energy CZAR lol

Per the article the battery runs at 90 degrees C, thats almost 200 Degrees F, enough to boil water. I don't see this as very good to have a battery the size of a refrigerator running at 200 degrees F and you will waste more power trying to keep the temperatures down inside your home if thats where it is. And safe if a child is around it? That would definately cause a very bad burn if your child touched it.