Healthcare rationing: Real scary

Healthcare rationing: Real scary

www.latimes.com

The most critical test of any reform proposal is whether it will empower individuals or impose on them. It is a fact that the leading bills in Congress would increase the power of government and decrease individual freedom. You cannot spend an additional $1 trillion of taxpayer money and reduce the role of government. You will get new bureaucracies, more regulation, more complexity. That means you will have less control of your healthcare.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Again we find more, and more information on the "healthcare reform" which will give the government more power, and control over our lives, not to mention our health, yet for some reason i keep seeing more *snip*posting responses on the website like never before.


It almost looks like the Obama camp has been sending *snip* to infiltrate websites such as this one to disinform people, and try to dismiss all the facts about the healthcare reform which the U.S. administration doesn't want people to learn about.

Am I the only one seeng this trend?

Most people, if not all of them, who approve and cheer for healthcare reform have not read ANYTHING at all about the reforms which the administration wants, yet certain people keep cheering, and claiming "it will be for the best for all Americans", when in fact when you read what the administration is trying to do, and what the bill actually says it won't do Americans any good at all.

Since I know the *snip* will try to refute once again the facts, let me post part of what these blind cheerleaders keep cheering for.

Disagree? Just read the versions of healthcare legislation:H.R.3200 in the House. One key proposal is to mandate an "essential benefit package" for every private insurance policy sold in the United States. Currently, individuals and employers usually make these coverage decisions. This legislation creates a new federal Health Benefits Advisory Committee that would decide instead. For example, if you are a single male with no children, the legislation still requires you to have maternity benefits and well-baby and well-child care coverage. You don't want or don't need that coverage? Sorry, you have to pay for it anyway.

Other planned agencies would give the federal government unprecedented and unaccountable control over your healthcare. The so-called Health Choices Administration and the National Health Insurance Exchange would set various standards for all health insurance policies. The president is also pushing for another new agency called the Independent Medicare Advisory Council. Described as a cost-control initiative,it would be made up of five government appointees who would, by determining Medicare reimbursement amounts, in essence decide what would be covered and what would not. The fear of government rationing is based on the premise that once government has such power, especially the ability to control what is covered by your private insurance policy, it also has the power to deny and restrict.

Those defending the House legislation claim rationing is not in any of its versions, and though that is technically true -- no one wants rationing -- the unprecedented power this legislation would grant to virtually unaccountable government agencies is all but certain to lead to rationing.

excerpted from main article.

So under the "healthcare reform" Americans won't have a choice, and instead the government will decide for you, just like the government will decide whether or not you should have surgery, or treatments if they are economically viable, and if the GOVERNMENT wants you to have it.

But let's hear the blind cheerleaders once again claim that everyone who oposes such healthcare reform is a "right wing extremist" like the government is now claiming most Americans are "right wing extremists" and "possible terrorists" even when this is not the truth.

Here come the *snip*.

www.latimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

[url=http:/

[edit on 17-8-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

Perhaps we should just keep the current system where half the country gets no treatment at all, and the other half are subjected to unnecessary procedures to bump up the bill.

Seriously, do you conservatives ever accept any type of change without screaming about how it was all so much better in 1952?

In case you hadn't noticed, we have lousy healthcare in this country and poor life expectancy rates compared to other first world nations.

It isn't so much that those other countries have forged ahead, it's more that you and your ilk have held us back.

The people voted, you lost, we would all prefer to spend billions on a questionable healthcare reform bill instead of spending billions on another one of your pointless wars.

We're moving forward, like it or not.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


Again we find more, and more information on the "healthcare reform" which will give the government more power, and control over our lives, not to mention our health, yet for some reason i keep seeing more *snip* posting responses on the website like never before.

I resent your using the word "*snip*" with regards to people who find that reforming the healthcare in the US might be a good idea. The current situation is such that special interests have configured the system in a way that they will milk the country dry out of its healthcare money and they don't give a damn, and that's apparently OK by you and other brainwashed elements. God forbid out government steps in to stop the insanity!



mod edit to remove disparaging political word

[edit on 17-8-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by Retseh



First of all, please do show EVIDENCE that half of the population in the U.S. does not get healthcare... We are over 300 million Americans, so you need to prove that 150+ million Americans do not get healthcare first of all....

Second of all, it is a known fact that the rating for healthcare done by the UN, and WHO are BIASED towards any country with Socialist ideals. They rate the systems mostly on IDEALISM, and not on what really happens in those countries.

Third of all, I didn't know that once a president is voted he can pass any, and every law he wants and the people don't have a right to say anything about it, but it seems that people like you believe this is the way it should be...

Fourth and not last, CHANGE is not always for good, and the current administration has shown no GOOD CHANGE at all....Instead we are furher into debt, with at least $9 trillion + dollars lost into a "black hole", alongside with the current administration giving power over to what they call the Corporation over all education, or learn based programs, as well as volunteer and mandatory Community Service programs, among the many other CHANGES which none of them have been for any good... except for the blind cheerleaders who keep chanting for change without knowing or asking what sort of changes the administration had, and has in mind...

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I resent your using the word "*snip*" with regards to people who find that reforming the healthcare in the US might be a good idea. The current situation is such that special interests have configured the system in a way that they will milk the country dry out of its healthcare money and they don't give a damn, and that's apparently OK by you and other brainwashed elements. God forbid out government steps in to stop the insanity!

*snip* are any of the people who keep chanting for CHANGE, without getting to know what sort of CHANGES the administration wants, and in case you don't know it yet the Obama healthcare reform will make healthcare WORSE, and not better...

Of course you also forget the fact that the Obama administration was caught making deals with big pharma and against the people, but hey you keep cheering for the CHANGE...maybe when you get to SEE what these changes will bring then you will decide it was a bad idea to keep cheering for CHANGE meanwhile not asking what sort of CHANGES the administration wants.... But by then it will be too late to do anything about CHANGE.....


Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

[edit on 17-8-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by Kaytagg



Do tell us what your convoluted ideas have to do with the article excerpted?

Nothing at all, except that you decide to namecall and label all Republicans because they have different ideas than you...

BTW, in case you didn't know, there are many Americans from different political parties who don't want this healthcare as proposed by the Obama administration which everyone can read about, and you can even listen President Obama explain what sort of CHANGES in healthcare he wants...

Would you mind sticking to the article? If not then make your own thread and do all the derailing, and namecalling you want....


[edit on 17-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Okay, then stop using the word "obamatron," and stop saying the government is going to take over your personal life.

Stop saying nobody has read anything about health care reform because they happen to want health care reform.

Stop saying the government is going to decide everything for you. That's malarkey.

Stop using scare tactics and playing the martyr. Nobody is calling you a terrorist in this thread -- are they?


Anyway.. Anyone look at the dow today? Great day in the markets -- I'm buy buy buying!

I am very concern of how big the present administration is getting with all the Czars and offices of the offices of the offices of, you can not even phantom what will become of a government health care program run by Czars, offices of the offices and who knew what.

How many people will be dump into a system that so far with the Medicare and Medicaid is nothing but full of corruption and fraud.

If people dies from the two main entitlement programs loop holes and corruption I can not imagine what a bigger government role will do next.

For some reason every thing that our government gets its hand on turns into crap, because the hordes of lobbyist and private interest involved with our whores in Washington.

We can not have an honest system working in the government when is not honest government system right now.



[edit on 17-8-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by Kaytagg

Conservatives are so darn hypocritical about everything. They want less government, except when it comes to our liberties and freedom, the patriot act, big wasteful military budgets, and wars that weaken our army and slaughter innocent people.
They are so not-smart that it's a wonder they haven't accidentally drowned themselves while drinking water.

They think the earth is 5000 years old. They think evolution is a myth. They think oil regenerates itself faster than we're using it. They think the environment doesn't matter -- because jesus will fix it.

I mean come on. Republicans are just idiotic on every level. They know absolutely nothing.

Wow... some very informative research there.... I thought the motto of this site was "deny ignorance"

This is socialism and it will lead to government rationed healthcare.

Obama is telling you this when he says he wants to reduce volume. He wants healthcare controlled by a government backed panel that he selects. This is why he wants control over Medicare reimbursements.

A Doctor will be reimbursed more money if he/she gives an elderly woman pain pills and end of life counseling and they will be reimbursed or penalized if they give the woman surgery.

This is why Obama told that woman that her mothers will to live and love of life are essentially meaningless. He told her that maybe her mother just needs a pain pill.

He talks about the red pill and the blue pill and he wants you to take the cheaper pill. He talked about getting your tonsils taken out. He said maybe you just need allergy medicine. Last I checked, Obama is not a Doctor and you can't control these decisions through a handpicked government backed panel.

Doctors have to have volume because there not psychic or telepathic. I know someone that went to the hospital for a headache and they found out he had a tumor. They found out because of volume. They did blood work and they did a battery of tests.

That wouldn't happen under Obamacare. This is because the Doctor will look at a list put together by this government backed panel and see they can get reimbursed more money if they just give the guy a Motrin and send him home.

This is socialism and Norman Thomas the socialist said it best:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas is also the Grandfather of Evan Thomas who works at Newsweek and said Obama was sorta of god on Hardball with tingly legged Matthews.

reply to post by marg6043


Hey Marg, you were just called a Republican, alongside with every other member, and American who doesn't want the Obama healthcare reform...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Well I used to be both depending who fancy me the most.



Both right now both parties can go straight to hell.

Beside doesn't bother me much to be call either or.

When I was after bush arse I was a democrat, now that I am after Obamas arse I am a Republican.

It so hilarious I can not stop laughing, it only shows that most people can only see Red or blue and is not other political colors in between.

Originally posted by Matrix RisingThis is socialism and it will lead to government rationed healthcare.

Comments like these used to be slightly annoying, but now I find quite a bit of comic value in those.

Knee-jerk reaction at its best - attach the "tag" socialism to anything (for no reason, really) and people start screaming bloody murder. I wish that some lobbyist decided that fast food is a definitive feature of communism and people would toss their franks and burgers in disgust.

What is proposed is a lot more conservative than the successful systems they run in Europe, and last time I checked Europe was not a communist hellhole (I know, I stole this from Paul Krugman

Originally posted by Kaytagg

Okay, then stop using the word "*SNIP*" and stop saying the government is going to take over your personal life.

First of all, *snip* are any Americans, or other person who is not an American yet who backs everything that Obama, and his administration says without question. If you are one well, then you should take a better look at who is "not so smart then." If you are one then look at the mirror and you will find one of those "idiots on every level" that you were talking about.

Second of all, even the bill explains the truth, that you will have no choice, so yes the government will decide, on healthcare among other things, for you, and you will have no say about it.

Again, do yourself a favour and learn to READ, instead of being an idiotic cheerleader all the time.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Stop saying nobody has read anything about health care reform because they happen to want health care reform.

When some people keep backing the healthcare reform and they claim that the government won't be deciding for you, or that the government won't decide whether a senior American should have surgery, or medical treatments, among other things it is OBVIOUS they have not read what is being proposed for healthcare reform....

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Stop saying the government is going to decide everything for you. That's malarkey.

Obviously you have a reading comprehension problem, or like many other *snip* you have decided not to inform yourself and instead you are just happy of being a blind cheerleader....

What is being proposed by the Obama administration CLEARLY shows that the government will be deciding and not the people....

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Stop using scare tactics and playing the martyr. Nobody is calling you a terrorist in this thread -- are they?

Not on this thread but I was referring to the fact that Janet Napolitano and the DHS labeled most Americans as "possible terrorists", which includes returning veterans, any American who wants to defend the Second Amendment, any American who does not agree with something from the OBama camp, any American who fears a One World Government, and any American who fears Communism....

Again, you have shown a total lack of knowledge in this, alongside healthcare which shows who is "not very smart"....

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Anyway.. Anyone look at the dow today? Great day in the markets -- I'm buy buy buying!

By the way you write a sentence I am sure we all can see who is "not so smart."


[edit on 17-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)



[edit on 17-8-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Our healthcare is already rationed!

HealthCare Rationing

Health insurers ration your care by limiting the doctors you may visit because they negotiate fees with those doctors. They will only pay for you to visit the ones they have negotiated the lowest fees with.

Health insurers ration care through co-pays, deductibles and caps. In fact, what they are really doing is encouraging you to self-ration. Knowing that a certain amount of your care will have to be paid from your pocket, you may choose not to get the care or drug you need.

Health insurers deny services or reimbursements for services. Denial of care is perhaps the most understood form of rationing, because it causes outrage and frustration. What most patients don't understand is that this is also the aspect of rationing that is most affected by laws and regulations, too.

This is just another push for another boogie man like "death panels" and "mandatory sex changes". People who are crying about this like it's something new don't even know what it is.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Our healthcare is already rationed!

It will be further rationed, and controlled by the government.

Please if you are going to respond to a thread do everyone a favor and read the article before hanging on one word..

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

What about medicare and medicaid?

I'm tired of hearing people yell and scream as though we live in a world where medical treatment is denied, or coverage is merely for the top 1%.

IN THE USA, YOU CANNOT BE TURNED AWAY AND DENIED TREATMENT FOR ANY REASON, EVEN IF YOU ARE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN. YOU CANNOT BE DENIED WELFARE OR MEDICAID IF YOU ARE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN.

For all the sheep bleeting "more, more," take a drive to your local or closest soup kitchen and complain to those who have no coverage OR FOOD OR HOUSING, and see which one they're more concerned about right now as the economy teeters on a complete crash.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
It will be further rationed, and controlled by the government.

Our government rations and controls nuclear weapons, and you don't seem to be losing much sleep over it. The Interstate Highway system is also the province of the Fed. The interstates seem to be in somewhat acceptable shape, too. Somehow, if the govt steps in to improve conditions of the uninsured and (hopefully) try to cap the astronomical expenses, you are up in arms.

How come they spend 40% less in the US and the citizens are happy with the care provided?