Get a clue America

The hostility on this site against outside opinions is just flooring.

Thank you for perpetuating the myth of xenophobia.

Guess what, they have access to the same internet, papers, and information we do. They can form an opinion.

And all you have to say is butt out? How about grow up.

Out of all the garbage on this site this takes the cake. This is an INTERNATIONAL SITE. Which means I don't care if they are a poo shoveler in Antartica, their opinion is every bit as valued.

And think what happens in the US doesn't affect them?

Well the last guy dragged their military of Canada, Britain,and Austrailia into an illegal war.

So yea, they have a right to pay attention.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Again and again, this flies against the fact, i.e. health care in Europe ain't shabby and costs much less... Your point?

My point is that this is NOT Europe.

The US GOVERNMENT IS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING ANYTING LESS COSTLY.

Well then, the government must be fixed. Otherwise we are just throwing arms in the air.

I admit I can be idealistic, but that's the kind of idealism that would tell a person he can quit using alcohol upon realizing that's not good for his health.
By your logic, that person should give up.

The Government can't be fixed.. It's the nature of government to be this way.

That is why our Founding Fathers wanted the Govt to do as least as humanly possible and to design a government that had so many oppurtunties in the process of making law for a new bill to be stopped.

reply to post by 12m8keall2c


So, why not get rid of the entire corrupted & infested system?

How long will it take for you to admit the entire system is a complete failure?

Capitalism is NOT and was NEVER the answer to true freedom.

I have never seen people poorer than when I visited the U.S.

Absolutely disgusting third world country with the majority living in a plastic bubble chasing a dream that was instilled into their brains by a few who profit from the slave labor of many.

GET A GRIP and do something for a change.

Originally posted by metamagic
And, it appears, neither can I. That one statement above sums up what a lot of people do not like about the US, the fact that Americans believe in one standard for themselves (as expressed above) but another for everyone else. The US has a long and continuing history of interference in other countries and have responded to other countries statements of "We don't see that what's going on in Chile/Genada/Iraq/etc/etc is any of your business, if you don't live here" by sponsoring coups, other forms of interference or outright invasion and war.

Much as I admire the statements you've made, I'd have to characterise the real reason for interfering in other countries is, basically, money... although LBJ instituted the Greek coup as a direct response to being told to mind his own business by the Greek premier.

Yet the US government attacks the problem by going after the cartels and suppliers in South America and Asia

Sorry, but I feel you're missing the point here, which is that like other terrorist organisations, the US government (or little fiefdoms within its various institutions) deals in drugs. A good primer on this is the book Whiteout by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St.Clair. In his At War In Indochina, Chomsky at least shows that he knows it's happening, even if he doesn't make a big thing about it.

Going after the cartels = getting rid of the competition.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
The hostility on this site against outside opinions is just flooring.

Thank you for perpetuating the myth of xenophobia.

Guess what, they have access to the same internet, papers, and information we do. They can form an opinion.

And all you have to say is butt out? How about grow up.

Out of all the garbage on this site this takes the cake. This is an INTERNATIONAL SITE. Which means I don't care if they are a poo shoveler in Antartica, their opinion is every bit as valued.

And think what happens in the US doesn't affect them?

Well the last guy dragged their military of Canada, Britain,and Austrailia into an illegal war.

So yea, they have a right to pay attention.

Yeah.. Americans are Xenophobes. LOL.

Americans are people who fled from "rest of the world".

It's only natural that we really don't care what the lazy people who stayed behind have to say.

Ah, land of the greed, hope of the 'fraid.
As in paranoid....of pretty much everything. Specially of people unlike us.
Socialized health care would never work here.
We operate on greed, profits and pure excess, something
totally foreign in regards to quality health care.
Unless its that we 'care' to be unhealthy. (and fat)
We enjoy our medical bankruptcies and outrageous bill, btw!
We like paying 200.00 for an asprin. Who wouldn't?
We like our insurance companies to decide who lives or dies.
Beats us having to take on that responsibility!
Easier to just go with the flow and believe what we're told.

You can tell by our waistlines it wouldnt work!
We'd go broke even worse -if thats possible- just trying to care
for the obese! Let alone everyone else.
Then you have millions that would take advantage and ruin it for
everyone else. Dont forget all the illegals and their families!
Sorry wont work here. Another reason? Red tape.
Besides a clue would cost money, we have none.
Only thing we have is some credit and even thats shaky.

Originally posted by kiwifoot
reply to post by jjkenobi

 

When Americans start holding up other countries as an example of facist, communist, socialist bad examples, them it get's a bit personal.

Frankly I've had enough of the whole US health care issue, I would vote to ban it from ATS, or restict it to one thread only.

All I know is, IF I'm broke in the UK, I fall over and shatter my spine, and in the subsequent months I develop liver problems, I will be looked after by the NHS for life, have a transplant, and have my house converted and nurses provided, for life, if that's socialist and so terrible. I don't care.

I completly agree with you, but that is not what we are protesting. He is trying to take our money, the money we have struggled to gain most of the time, and give it to people on welfare that don't do # , and still use that money on crack and stupid # like that, and still decide to have 14 or 15 kids. Another thing is they are trying to dictate who lives and dies, that is not their decision. Personaly, if everyone wprked and gave their fair share, I would'nt give a # if we had a monarchy, because it seems to work for England, and it is a wonderful country. So before you call us ignorant and stupid, realize he is trying to give our money to people who don't give a # if a gun wa being held to their head and the person telling them to go to rehab to quit, they would keep on with their little habit. But I'm not insulting you, calling you stupid or anything, in fact I don't see why we can't be freinds, but please pay attention to the protestors bofore you decide that we are all crazy.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by mr. nameless]

Originally posted by Truth4hire
reply to post by 12m8keall2c

 

So, why not get rid of the entire corrupted & infested system?

How long will it take for you to admit the entire system is a complete failure?

The system works great.. It's when the system is used to do things that go against its programming that things break down.

The Progressive Movement in early 1900s started that process. It's the things that they did, and the things based on that that need to be reversed and proper Constitutional goverance restored.

Capitalism is NOT and was NEVER the answer to true freedom.

bwahaha.. sure whatever you say. Bring on the Liberty-Enhancing Collectivism! We need the Politburo to tell us what to do so we can be free. LOL.

I have never seen people poorer than when I visited the U.S.

Well maybe you need to expand your horizons and leave your pretty little sealed plastic elitist unsustainable bubble.

Absolutely disgusting third world country with the majority living in a plastic bubble chasing a dream that was instilled into their brains by a few who profit from the slave labor of many.

GET A GRIP and do something for a change.

Please, tell us what to do. We need your mandates so that we can enjoy the freedom of slavery , just like in Oceania.

reply to post by gaborn415

First of all the United States is a Republic founded on a constitution which strictly limits the authority and scope of the federal government. The idea of socialism, which you enjoy is strictly speaking slavery,

Oh slavery!!!, the US would never take part in something so vicious and cruel like slavery, no not the States, thats only for socialist scum, not for a capitalist nation.

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


No offense but you are fairly wrong. Your country and the countries you mentioned all have tax rates above 50% hence enslaving and restricting success. When countries and govt's restrict the opportunities for success by creating oppressive tax policies and making the citizens work to support govt and the govt having more power than it citizens, you end up with high depression and suicide rates. All of which if you are aware are higher in all the nations you noted, than the US.

Also, given your apparent lack of facts, but full arsenal of rhetoric and emotion, I will help you learn something. Yes the Canadian healthcare system is having massive issues and is on the verge of implosion. In other words, your standard of care is lower than the US, and fiscally it is about to implode:
Article

The issue here is that at no time has govt ever run anything efficiently. Anything that the govt takes over gains temporary stability, and then an erosion of quality.

I agree that Socialism and Communism is thrown around as an insult way too much. In reality they are not bad ideas... just not the ones this country was founded on.
Perfect idealistic societies such as Communism and Anarchy are flawed because of human greed. Which is why they turn into dictatorships and mob rule. Most European countries are on par with leftist ideas like Socialism but that's not the way America is. America is on the right (or was) the founding fathers, such as Jefferson, could be described as Libertarians or even Anarchists.

I have a question for you, did America become great by doing what everyone else was doing? Granted we took some Socialist ideas and put them to use in the early 20th Century, but essentially we are a Small Government and Free Market country (or used to be).

I can actually name 1 place in the world that is more free market than America, in fact they border on Libertarianism. That is Hong Kong. You rarely hear about them, it's really a neat city.

Originally posted by asmall89
I agree that Socialism and Communism is thrown around as an insult way too much. In reality they are not bad ideas... just not the ones this country was founded on.
Perfect idealistic societies such as Communism and Anarchy are flawed because of human greed. Which is why they turn into dictatorships and mob rule.

Collectivism has only killed a few hundred million people in the last century.. but other than that slight hiccup... what a great idea!

I've always wondered why Americans don't do something about their crappy government like you know, overthrow it. Maybe they're too lazy I don't know.

reply to post by ZombieOctopus

The fact is that it is against american law for anyone to be refused necessary medical attention in the U.S. So I recomend that those who know NOTHING about our current system (which does include alot of ignorant americans) keep their mouths shut. If they were trying to implement a reasonable healthcare plan at a time when it was economically feasable to be doing so I would have no problem. However, they are not!

reply to post by Chovy


Hello there.
Might want to reread the first line in my post above.
Pretty much explains it all.
Greed and paranoia have dictated this country's actions for years now.

In other words we are too scared crapless...
Theres swine flu, terrorism, mediocrity, etc, etc, etc.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by Chovy
I've always wondered why Americans don't do something about their crappy government like you know, overthrow it. Maybe they're too lazy I don't know.

My own theory is... the country is too damn big.

If you're in ohio and want to overthrow the Govt.. what are you going to do? The Federal Gov is hundreds of miles away.

Whatever little faction of people who you would be able to recruit with you would be insignificant when viewed as a representative sample of the country.

You'll never be able to get a good sized crush-proof army of people to go to Washington.. at least not without giving the Govt plenty of time to stop you all while you were on your way there.

And if people were going to rabble rouse in their home towns... then what exactly are they going to disrupt?

The Federal govt provides very little actual on-the-ground activity for people. That's all handled by the completely independent governments of the States and cities.

If you took over your little city government that would have no impact on the Fed Govt at all.

All that and more makes it nearly impossible to change anything about this system as long as the idiots keep sending these bigger idiots to Congress.

Personally, I don't know what everyone's arguing about. Healthcare reform is dead, haven't you heard? The administration backed off the single payer option and compromised with the public option, and has now backed off the public option and compromised with regional co-ops which to say the least will be ineffectual, worthless competitors to private health insurance companies. You can relax now, health care reform is dead and your precious status quo has been protected. Enjoy your ever-increasing premiums, your thousand dollar deductibles, your comprehensive and barely affordable coverage, you will no longer have to worry about one red cent of your taxes going to help out those 50 million drug addicted, welfare-riding, non-life deserving leeches that are currently, without coverage... of course not because they can't afford it, of course because they're employers make them wait three months for coverage, of course not because they work well over 40 hours a week making pennies on the dollar, but because they're leeches not deserving of the right to breathe the same air as you or breed. And don't even start in on those who would abuse... you find that every time an employee hooks a friend up with a discounted flat screen at Best Buy.

I think I posted this on another thread, but here it is anyway; I actually work for a health insurance company handling your benefits and your claims... and I make so little money that until my own HEALTHCARE COMPANY CHIPS IN I can't afford it... but don't you worry, if I fall ill or have a catastrophic accident I'll go the good, American route and die rather than see any of your hard earned money go to anything but yourselves and your flawless healthcare, don't you worry!

And to our neighbors to the north, you're correct in one thing; there is a moronic, selfish, uninformed minortity... MINORITY... screaming louder than the rest of us. Believe it or not, there are some of use out there that are not only sick of health insurance companies, we're sick of contiguously inept presidential administrations and greed-stricken congressmen as well as those citizens in our own country that make us all look incredibly stupid. You aren't the only ones that have had enough of this. No system is perfect, but to do nothing because you don't feel that doing something would be worth the time speaks volumes.

Originally posted by rich23
Of course, most of the people who whine about their money being used to help people never ever complain about the ENORMOUS budget spent on the military. You never hear these people bitching about their money being used to kill people. Funny, that.

That is because the Military is an enumerated power of the federal gov't and health care is not.

reply to post by VinceP1974


I'm of course referring to them in the economic sense, again those idealistic societies are ruined by peoples greed, and hatred. The ideas themselves are harmless, but when the wrong people are in charge things get out of hand. Just as Anarchist societies are subject to mob rule. I myself am not in favor of collectivism and oppose socialism & communism. I'm pretty capitalist.

Originally posted by Legion2112

And to our neighbors to the north, you're correct in one thing; there is a moronic, selfish, uninformed minortity... MINORITY... screaming louder than the rest of us. .

The greatest thing about America is that we're under a rule of Law , not a rule of the Majority.

Our Founding Fathers knew well.. those seeking to live off the teat of everyone else will do all they can to engrandize the Govt. The Consittution was made to prevent that if at all possible.


I support Jim Demitt's Healthcare Freedom Bill that's in the Senate. It actually addresses the problem without imposing tyrannical government interference into our lives.

I haven't seen ONE of you Compassionate people even mention it.