Get a clue America

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
To hear the misinformed, morally and educationally bankrupt little redneck racist muppets slagging off countries they don't have a clue about boils my blood.

Those people should hang their ignorant heads in shame. Sadly, I suspect they're too dumb to realise just how wrong they are.


Oh, my, someone doesn't agree with your opinions and outlook, and what do you know? Out comes the namecalling. Redneck. Ignorant. Dumb. And the all important "Racist" (since if you disagree with Obama, you're automatically a racist.)

Pretty lame.




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
Social medical care, like all other government programs here in the states will not make medical care any less expensive. It will make it more expensive and less effective.


Again and again, this flies against the fact, i.e. health care in Europe ain't shabby and costs much less... Your point?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by badgerprints
Social medical care, like all other government programs here in the states will not make medical care any less expensive. It will make it more expensive and less effective.


Again and again, this flies against the fact, i.e. health care in Europe ain't shabby and costs much less... Your point?
'

It was obvious. That here in the United States (meaning, not Europe) there is no evidence that the Govt is able to reduce costs when it gets its clumsy little hands on things.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Then again, neither does big business, apparently.

So where does that leave us?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by gaborn415
reply to post by phoenix103
 


Laughable how exactly? It's easy to throw a personal attack amnd straw man the argument. How about pointing out where I'm wrong exactly instead of falling back on the tried and true method of attacking those who disagree with you personally instead of using logic to argue a point?


I've done that in other threads on this subject only for those who have been proven wrong to go silent!

So whilst you may be different and have something to say, i see no point. Feel free to check out some of my other posts though.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by orderedchaos
reply to post by phoenix103
 


Wow. what a way to throw your weight around without adding absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.

It's such a treat to read the posts of someone who's not only a bully, but a know-it-all.

I'm amazed you're not a politician, or on board with team Obama.


If you're going to post misinformed nonsense about my country as an argument against one of your own politicians policies you can't blame me for being somewhat defensive!



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by phoenix103
To hear the misinformed, morally and educationally bankrupt little redneck racist muppets slagging off countries they don't have a clue about boils my blood.

Those people should hang their ignorant heads in shame. Sadly, I suspect they're too dumb to realise just how wrong they are.


Oh, my, someone doesn't agree with your opinions and outlook, and what do you know? Out comes the namecalling. Redneck. Ignorant. Dumb. And the all important "Racist" (since if you disagree with Obama, you're automatically a racist.)

Pretty lame.


And absolutely accurate. I'm sure not all of them fit the categories i've specified but the demographics are pretty self evident. Do you disagree?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 


Whilst I can't Nor won't action a post in a thread I've participated in ... how Exactly are these most recent missives even closely On-Topic?



» Political Issues » Get a clue America » Post Reply



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Every time I hear Americans call their president, and worse, their fellow Americans, socialists in a derogatory manor, I cringe and bite my lip.

Believe it or not, America is in the minority in being against social initiatives, most notably, health care. The rest of the developed world is not "imploding" under the stress of "socialist rule", we're happy the way things are and in fact we even voted these policies into law, democratically!

I am not saying this to be evil.

Our founding fathers escaped from Britain due to their socialistic rule. Its a fact of life here. Britain's socialistic lifestyle is the main reason our founding fathers committed treason.

Britain and United States may be brothers, but we are drastically different. Thank god.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by KSPigpen
Hmm. Never one to run away from a good anonymous argument.


I don't see that what's going on in America is any of your business, if you don't live here.



And, it appears, neither can I. That one statement above sums up what a lot of people do not like about the US, the fact that Americans believe in one standard for themselves (as expressed above) but another for everyone else. The US has a long and continuing history of interference in other countries and have responded to other countries statements of "We don't see that what's going on in Chile/Genada/Iraq/etc/etc is any of your business, if you don't live here" by sponsoring coups, other forms of interference or outright invasion and war. It is this policy that the US has, based on some self perceived right to impose itself on any other country when the whim stikes, but regards any interference of comment on itself as unwarranted meddling -- that the rest of the world sees as hypocritical. It should not take much to understand that in a world with a single violent and somewhat unpredictable super power, other countries are concerned about what happens in the US because it has the potential to affect them. Often fatally.

Just as one example of how foolish this US way of thinking is.. most of world drug trade with all of its crime and violence exists to service the voracious appetite for illicit drugs that the US has. If the US were able to eliminate the demand for illegal drugs, a good part of the world drug trade would collapse. Yet the US government attacks the problem by going after the cartels and suppliers in South America and Asia not seeming to realize that as they eliminate one, two more are ready to take its place as long as Americans keep demanding more drugs to snort, shoot and smoke.

Yes, what does go on in the US concerns those who don't live there because it affects us, usually in brutal, ugly and violent ways. And if you reply that you don't care about that, you basically have proven my point.



[edit on 17-8-2009 by metamagic]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Pathos
Our founding fathers escaped from Britain due to their socialistic rule. Its a fact of life here. Britain's socialistic lifestyle is the main reason our founding fathers committed treason.


Hang on a minute. This is unbelievable. You think that socialism was the reason the 'founding fathers' wanted to be apart from Britain?

You think this despite the fact that Britain at that time was the largest capitalistic nation on the planet.

You think this despite the fact that it was in the process of building the largest empire ever seen, and that imperialism and socialism are entirely at odds with one another.

You think this despite the fact that Robert Owen, founder of the Cooperative Movement in Britain, and unanimously declared the first British socialist, introduced 'socialism' in 1827, despite the American War of Independence being from 1775-1783?

You think this despite the fact that 'Socialism' wasn't even coined as a word until 1839?

You think this despite the fact that the US War of Independence ended 65 years before Karl Marx published The Communist Manifesto?

You think this despite the fact that the only country in the world at that time that could even be said to be slightly socialistic, and even then very tenuously, was the French Republic, who fought on Americas side?

It is quite clear that whatever you understand Socialism to be, isn't what it actually is. England of the 1700s, was so unbelievably far from being socialist that it beggars belief you could even attempt to link the two.

Whilst it is undoubted that there were differences leading to the war of independence, Socialism was not in any way involved.

Please my friend, read a book.



Britain and United States may be brothers, but we are drastically different. Thank god.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Pathos]


If that's what you're getting taught over there, then thank God indeed!



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


Starred and flagged. WELL SAID!

OK, I'm 100% behind Obama, mainly for the reasons you suggest.

To hear the misinformed, morally and educationally bankrupt little redneck racist muppets slagging off countries they don't have a clue about boils my blood.

Those people should hang their ignorant heads in shame. Sadly, I suspect they're too dumb to realise just how wrong they are.


I bet you can't wait to take care of the health of those rednecks (white people). Step in the gas ,er, I mean shower. While you are daydreaming about that glorious day ,go out and dig your own grave. I assure you a fair number of Obama voters will be denide life saving treatments under this plan. I doubt that will matter to you much as long as those red necks (white people) suffer like never before.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by eradown]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Again and again, this flies against the fact, i.e. health care in Europe ain't shabby and costs much less... Your point?


My point is that this is NOT Europe.

The US GOVERNMENT IS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING ANYTING LESS COSTLY.

Nor do they care to do so.

It is simple fact.

Get past your idealistic ideas and look at the reality of what is going on.

The congress makes decisions based on lobby money and partisan agenda.

Mostly on lobby money.

If healthcare cost less then the politicians make less lobby money and big pharma loses. There is no reducing of healthcare costs in this agenda. It simply adds more red tape and expense and shifts the extra cost to the taxpayers who already are overburdened by the cost of the present system.

IT DOES NOT REDUCE COST. IT INCREASES COST.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


Question:

Are you saying that in order to have public insurance/socialized medicine/whatever that would actually lower costs that the American system of governance would have to change from what it's become and since the lobbies have so much money that they can keep it from happening, the status quo is the best you can hope for?


Not taking the piss, honestly just trying to understand.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by milesp
It's a fact that other western countries spend less on healthcare and get better results through government-run insurance. That means they're more efficient.



Listen to what we are saying and not what you think we are trying to say.

The US government is one of the most inefficient organizations on this planet.

I cannot reduce costs.

It is not capable of reducing costs.

The beurocracy WILL NOT ALLOW IT.

IT HAS NO DESIRE TO REDUCE COSTS.

(Am I not saying it right?)



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
reply to post by badgerprints
 


Question:

Are you saying that in order to have public insurance/socialized medicine/whatever that would actually lower costs that the American system of governance would have to change from what it's become and since the lobbies have so much money that they can keep it from happening, the status quo is the best you can hope for?




CLOSE, very close. Thank you.

BUT we are overburdened by the present system of billing.

We have fantastic care ,hospitals,doctors,technology.....but the money being charged is wasted squandered and misdirected. That's why health care is not affordable.



We need to get less interference in this not more. We need to pull the greed out of the system and put the care back in. Putting a layer of US Government control into the system will cripple it and cost much much more.



If the government wanted everybody covered on insurance they could do so from the outside and it would work. Inserting more beurocracy into the system will make it much worse.

We don't need bigger health care. We need less greed.

Political intervention "within the system" adds a layer of cost that is astronomical and a new degree of greed that is simply insane.



[edit on 043131p://f52Monday by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


"All these "Americans" holding up signs of president Obama with a Hitler mustache and equating him with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Hitler himself at these town hall meetings are idiots beyond help. They are not "patriots", they're ignorant morons and this is from someone that really doesn't care if your government is run by democrats, republicans or real fascists at this point. "

Oh really, When is the last time your government came out and called you a terrorist? Has your government stopped doing the wishes of the people totally like ours? Has your government intentionally bankrupted most of its citizens so they have total control over its population in every aspect of their lives. Did your MP set a presidential army at the Canadian universities?

These protesters are the American way, When is the last time you protested against something your government did? In America we speak our minds when we see an injustice, We do not sit around and say OK to everything OK.

Obama will be worse then all of these tin pot dictators combined if we do not stop him now. Nostradamus did not call the anti-Christ the angry black man for nothing.

Americans bow to nobody. The government will do the will of the people or the people will dispose of the government.

Have fun watching from the sidelines and playing arm chair QB. Now go worry about your own screwed up country and keep your terrorist out of mine.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Again and again, this flies against the fact, i.e. health care in Europe ain't shabby and costs much less... Your point?


My point is that this is NOT Europe.

The US GOVERNMENT IS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING ANYTING LESS COSTLY.



Well then, the government must be fixed. Otherwise we are just throwing arms in the air.

I admit I can be idealistic, but that's the kind of idealism that would tell a person he can quit using alcohol upon realizing that's not good for his health.
By your logic, that person should give up.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Again and again, this flies against the fact, i.e. health care in Europe ain't shabby and costs much less... Your point?


My point is that this is NOT Europe.

The US GOVERNMENT IS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING ANYTING LESS COSTLY.



Well then, the government must be fixed. Otherwise we are just throwing arms in the air.

I admit I can be idealistic, but that's the kind of idealism that would tell a person he can quit using alcohol upon realizing that's not good for his health.
By your logic, that person should give up.


No, by my logic we don't buy the alcoholic free booze or let him run the liquor store.

[edit on 053131p://f17Monday by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
No, by my logic we don't buy the alcoholic free booze or let him run the liquor store.


Oh puh-leeze. You seem to imply that drug dealers (i.e. HMO/insurance/their lobby) are this alcoholic's best friend. NOT.





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