Get a clue America

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


I cant stand cry baby Americans[0] who think they have woken up in Europe and demoan the lack of Statism.

Our families didn't FLEE FROM EUROPE and come here only to have little punks destroy the Constitution and bring here what millions left.



[0] Whoops,, he's not even an American.. For the purposes of this statement, I view Canada as not much different than Europe and what i really cant' stand more than whiny Americans are whiny , sniveling EUtopians.

People came to America to get away from your failed states. A lot of us still remember that and will fight against the importation and implementation of those ideas here.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by VinceP1974]

Every American deserves the same health care plan enjoyed by our Congressmen and Representatives. No more. No less.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
In my opinion,
The US government couldn't run a successful Day Care let alone any sort of Nationalized Health system.

On another note, and perhaps something for a different thread all together...
Given the extent to which the Insurance Co.s, Big Pharma and Big Medical are so obviously and deeply entrenched with well-funded lobbyists on Capital Hill, does any one think for one minute they would be supporting this, OR EVEN allowing it to see the light of day, IF it weren't in one way or another in their best interest(s)? That they would allow it to even reach the point of further discussion, debate? ... if they haven't already figured a means by which to capitalize (profit) off the same?

$.02

This may not be the correct thread to get into this conversation in, and if not please excuse me, but I respectfully disagree. The Federal Government is bulky and often times inefficient, but based on personal experience I found that it runs a tight ship at least with regards the military. Not to say they would be able to do the same with a national health care system, but again, that's not what is really being proposed. The public option was the last thing in the current health care reform that could be construed as "socializing" anything to do with health care (and that was going to be socialized health insurance at that), and it appears that even it is coming off the table very soon.

Also, I believe that what we are seeing in the debate is the product of exactly the type of special interest influence of which you are speaking. Big health insurance is spending like crazy to try and defeat this, and in particular any mention of a public option drives them to spend more. Thus, it seems disingenuous for them say from one side of their mouth that the government couldn't run a viable public option because of government incompetence, yet say from the other side, that any public option would bankrupt the private insurance market because of unfair advantages. Which is it, are they incompetent, or are they so competent they will drive the private insurers out of business? The fact that the big insurance lobby is against health care reform is, to me, a good reason to look further into it.

By the way I don't support it as it is right now, because I think the burden will fall, as it always does, to the middle class and small business owners when they are forced to pay for insurance for all employees and not given breaks to offset such a steep increase in costs. But anything that worries the big insurance lobby is probably worth a second look in my opion.

Originally posted by Artephius Abraxas Helios
Big health insurance is spending like crazy to try and defeat this, and in particular any mention of a public option drives them to spend more.

How much are they spending and where is it going?

News from Canada from this weekend:

“We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize,” said Dr. Anne Doig. The doctor added that it’s a little thing called sustainability that’s causing massive problems with the Canadian health care system.

She added, “We know that there must be change. We’re all running flat out, we’re all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands.”

reply to post by VinceP1974
I am looking for a link to the article, but the Washington Post reported in July that the big insurance and Pharm lobby was, at that time, spending $1.4 million a day on lobbying congress and advertising to defeat the public option.

Found it:
www.washingtonpost.com...

*edit to include link*
[edit on 17-8-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

reply to post by KSPigpen


Great post. I like the metaphor of the teenager.

I swore I'd keep out of this debate, because:

-There is no way my opinion would help/change/matter

-There is just too much arguing too and fro for there to be any decent debate

-I am not from/in the US so have no idea what health care is actually like


I have been drawn into this simply because there has been much NHS bashing of late.

Your post actually make a lot of sense, and reiterates to me that I ought to re-adopt my original principles and bug the hell out.

I just hope our sibling the US finds a system that is acceptable to the majority of Americans, that is workable, and that you come through it without anybody doing anythng stupid.

But when it boils down to it, it's none of my business I guess.

Good luck, kiwifoot signing out from all US Health Care Reform threads.

Over and Out

Originally posted by kiwifoot

Originally posted by eradown
I think it is funny you know who our president is. You really should not. Regardless of whither you love Obama or hate him, he won't help you at all. We in America prefer to mind our own bussiness or maybe we really are too big to ignore.

Thanks, I really needed that laugh.

You are so right, the US is a beacon of independence, a shining example of a country concentrating on their own issues, of not interfering in the running of other nations, of not forcing it's will on the rest of the world, history is brimming with the peaceful message of US non-involvment in the business of independent-nation-states, you should be very insulted that heaven forbid the rest of the world may have an opinion on you for a change.


Do you really have such a idealistic, holy notion of yourself?

I have to sit down, the laughter is killing me.

I just thought of the best reply to my own post:

"You weren't so worried about US interference in WW1 and WW2"....hm will have to come up with a reply to myself for that!

[edit on 17-8-2009 by kiwifoot]

Originally posted by Artephius Abraxas Helios
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

I am looking for a link to the article, but the Washington Post reported in July that the big insurance and Pharm lobby was, at that time, spending $1.4 million a day on lobbying congress and advertising to defeat the public option.

Found it:
www.washingtonpost.com...

*edit to include link*
[edit on 17-8-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

Thanks for the answer. Your implication was that the lobbying was resulting in the public reaction against the plan.

I was looking for figures that stated how much money was going into that effort. Because I assert public opposition has nothing to do with any group whatsoever. It's a genuine opposition on principle.


That they spend millions lobbying Congress is no surprise, i wasnt looking for "proof" of that. if Congress wasn't meddling in their business there would be no need for them to lobby.

Lobbying is a consequence of the Govt acting in a certain sphere.

The more places it acts, the more lobbying there will be.

The real, meaningful opposition to this is the opposition from the people. That is what will kill it.

First of all the United States is a Republic founded on a constitution which strictly limits the authority and scope of the federal government. The idea of socialism, which you enjoy is strictly speaking slavery, as under socialism everyone has some claim to everyone else's life. Their labor, their moneuy, their lives are not their own but property of some nameless mass of government/people/whatever. The definition of slavery is...
slav·er·y (slv-r, slvr)
n. pl. slav·er·ies
1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2.
a. The practice of owning slaves.
b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
4. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Check numbers 1 and 3 and then when you understand the english language come back and argue how you're not a slave. We the American people do not wish to be slaves, as this is the US and not Canada, we don;t give a crap what you do, you an have a big socialist slavery party and practice humans sacrifice all you wish, for us we prefer freedom.

Originally posted by kiwifoot

I just thought of the best reply to my own post:

you weren't so worried about US interference in WW1 and WW2....hm will have to come up with a eply to myself for that!

What's fun is debating with a German over this stuff and then telling him

"Well if it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German"

LOL

I'll tell you what there hoser.

To pay for our new health plan just too make you feel better.
We will have your Govt. tax you another 30% to pay for our plan.
It really would not be much different than the illegals we have to pay for.

Let's call it the "Pay it forward" health care plan.

If you live North of someone, you pay for their health care.

This plan is already in effect for us, so you can just join the party!

Got it Hoser, aye..............

Mind your own business!

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
In my opinion,
The US government couldn't run a successful Day Care let alone any sort of Nationalized Health system.

This may not be the correct thread to get into this conversation in, and if not please excuse me, but I respectfully disagree. The Federal Government is bulky and often times inefficient, but based on personal experience I found that it runs a tight ship at least with regards the military.




Thankfully the miltary runs its own ships, They make take orders from "SECDEF" or "POTUS" but thats only after the breifings they get from the military... One has to look to Vietnam and see what happens when Goverment gets involved in Military Operations.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet


Thankfully the miltary runs its own ships, They make take orders from "SECDEF" or "POTUS" but thats only after the breifings they get from the military... One has to look to Vietnam and see what happens when Goverment gets involved in Military Operations.

Or the first failed battle of Fallujuh

[edit on 17-8-2009 by VinceP1974]

Originally posted by seagull
My faith in the ability of govt. to run anything ceased to exist long ago...

That is absolutely fine, but how about your faith in letting HMO's, hospital groups, insurance etc to have a field day? Did you hear about costs rising exponentially? Are you in denial? I'll say it again - the UK spends 40% less on health and they are doing fine.

Another day, another health care thread. It's getting boring, but not as boring as having Americans tell me the NHS sucks and is falling apart. Like any system, it's not perfect, but I suspect if the Tories try and take it away they'll be out of office sooner than you can say "Cameron you loser".

Yeah... I'm just a shill for the NHS. Just like Steven Hawking. Or the thousands of people who are successfully treated for free every day.

One of my best friends was treated for leukaemia a while ago. He nearly died but he's been in remission for three years now and is doing well. Never had to pay a penny. I'm glad my National Insurance contributions go to help people: I think it's a mark of a civilised society.

Of course, most of the people who whine about their money being used to help people never ever complain about the ENORMOUS budget spent on the military. You never hear these people bitching about their money being used to kill people. Funny, that.

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


Starred and flagged. WELL SAID!

OK, I'm 100% behind Obama, mainly for the reasons you suggest.

To hear the misinformed, morally and educationally bankrupt little redneck racist muppets slagging off countries they don't have a clue about boils my blood.

Those people should hang their ignorant heads in shame. Sadly, I suspect they're too dumb to realise just how wrong they are.

reply to post by rich23

Another day, another health care thread. It's getting boring, but not as boring as having Americans tell me the NHS sucks and is falling apart. Like any system, it's not perfect, but I suspect if the Tories try and take it away they'll be out of office sooner than you can say "Cameron you loser".

Trust me, we're just as bored of having Canadians and other people who aren't American, telling us what will work and what we want. In fact, I'd say the ribbing your NHC is taking from us, is a direct result of people not minding their own business.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Wimbly]

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by rich23

 

Another day, another health care thread. It's getting boring, but not as boring as having Americans tell me the NHS sucks and is falling apart. Like any system, it's not perfect, but I suspect if the Tories try and take it away they'll be out of office sooner than you can say "Cameron you loser".

Trust me, we're just as bored of having Canadians and other people who aren't American, telling us what will work and what we want. In fact, I'd say the ribbing your NHC is taking from us, is a direct result of people not minding their own business.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Wimbly]

Sir, if you must take that approach then understand mine -

We were kind enough to provide your nation with a beautiful language. Please use it correctly.

The word you are looking for is "bored".

And you may wish to ponder this - If you are so weary of the "rest of the world telling you what might work" then may i respectfully suggest you lobby your political and military leaders to stop telling the rest of the world how to conduct itself?