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Get a clue America

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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For all those involved in this health reform discussion, is it just me or would it not make sense to keep yourself as healthy as possible (natural cures/food) and avoid BIG PHARMA as much as possible except for the occassional accident/misstep. Higher quality of life and save some $$$'s. Not negating the discussion, just my .02




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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There is no such thing as universal health care.

In a privatized system, some people do not receive care because they are uninsured or denied insurance.

In a socialized system, health care is rationed and some are denied treatment.

From a compassionate perspective, it really makes no difference.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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Obamacare = Mass Eugenics Campaign



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by VinceP1974
Lobbying is a consequence of the Govt acting in a certain sphere.

The more places it acts, the more lobbying there will be.





No..

Lobbying is a direct result of an act passed during WWI...that froze congress at 435 seats.


Congressional districts must be small enough, in terms of population, for individuals to feel a real influence in the nomination,election and behavior of Representatives. A congressional voter is now one-in-600,000; back in 1910, that voter's grandfather was one out of 200,000. Before World War One, the House was frozen at 435 seats. Districts have since tripled in size. No wonder alienation and apathy have taken over...


More on this see WHY 435??

The founding fathers intended congressional diistricts to be about 50.000 MAXIMUM.
That would mean instead of 1 congress man and 4 to 6 staffers, we would have 7 or 8 congressmen!

If I wanted to run for congress, I would only have to get my message out to 20,000 people...At 42 cents, or rather something like 25 cents bulk rate... it would cost me 5000 $ in postage to reach those people. I could run for congress on a credit card!

but because districts are now 600,000 or so, I would need to raise 30 times that or 60 thousand dollars, JUST FOR ONE MAILING!

Because it costs so must to get your message out, I would have no choice but to accept contributions... from big business..the folks who have that kind of money.

Do you see the pattern?

The founders plan was corrupted with intent...that no one understand what was presented above.



The original act freezing congress at 435 seats was called something like "The apportionment act of 1914"

[edit on 18-8-2009 by seataka]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


Zombie im sorry to say it.... but you make me want to pull my hair out. Firstly im British, and if you think our government is all unicorns and flowers then you missed something along the way. I dislike my own government as much as America's. Yes, Americans are sometimes a little more ignorant than the rest, but maybe not as ignorant as you.

I am anything but PROUD of my government and so are a hell of a lot of people.

Secondly the US government seems to be hijacked. Global warming, phony wars, cap & trade, health care reform during recession, money going missing, billions spent on black ops projects, billions given in aid to Israel each year, 9/11, rockerfellas, bias propaganda on all fronts.. the list just goes on and on.

My government is just as corrupt... or maybe your still watching panorama.


To come to the conclusion that a s*** load of Americans are ignorant is IGNORANT thinking. Have you asked why? When? How?

Are you working for the government?



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 


I'll bet your mouth isnt this big in person. You see a few news anchors or some random interview and peg us all as little rednecks?

How can you blame what "America" Does" on the citizens? Is it the town hall meetings? What is boiling your blood? Now your 100% behind a recently unpopular president, and against the citizens.
We seem to be screaming at our Government for the past 6 years for things THEY do!

Dont be mad at us because your boy is falling in the poles



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
I for the life of me don't understand why other countries care about or think they should have some influence on health care policy in America.

I'm not interested in changing the Canadian or UK health care system. Why are you so interested in changing mine?



[edit on 17-8-2009 by jjkenobi]


This has probably already been said on this thread. 200 replies is a lot to read!

In answer to your question, I'm interested in the healthcare systems of all the countries of the world. Everyone should have the right to superb free healthcare. I'm especially interested in the US system because as a Briton and a European I view the US as family, and you care about family. You're all getting totally fleeced. The US system is the worst, the most expensive and the most corrupt.

Thom Hartmann said something along the lines of this the other day. If you're house caught fire you'd want and expect firefighters to turn up and put out the blaze as quickly as possible and to save as much as your house and belongings as possible. But that is socialist, just like the Police, armed forces, and education. So would you rather get rid of all these 'socialistic' services and then have to pay the fire fighters before they start work on putting out the fire? Of course you wouldn't. But isn't your body more important than your house?

Finally I must address another issue- our dental system. I saw an American on TV the other day protesting against Obamas reforms saying that he doesn't want to be like the British and have to wait 6 months to arrange a dental appointment, or end up with such bad teeth as the British.

1. In total there are more people in the US with bad teeth than there are in Britain.

2.NO WE DO NOT have to wait 6 months for an appointment. I've just cancelled my appointment for tomorrow and have another appointment the following day. In cases of an emergency you can be seen immediately without an appointment anywhere in the UK not just at your local dentist.

3. It is perhaps true that the dental system in the UK is the most shameful part of our National Health Service. But guess what? What is the most privatised unsocialistic part of our NHS? Yep, the dental system.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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And think what happens in the US doesn't affect them?

Well the last guy dragged their military of Canada, Britain,and Austrailia into an illegal war.

So yea, they have a right to pay attention.


I agree that the rest of the world has the right to pay attention. What the US does does affect the rest of the world.

But in fairness, the US didn't threaten to bomb Canada, Britain and Australia into the stone age if they didn't click their heels and say "SIR YES SIR" when the americans wanted them to help illegally invade Iraq. The leaders there were more than happy to tell GWB how good his pharghts smelled. They thought that the US would win and they thought that they would get prestige from being on the winning team.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by phoenix103

Originally posted by Nivcharah
[Then why is it so easy for terrorists to enter Canada, thereby creating a need for USA to tighten the CA/USA borders? (If we haven't, we should!)


Terrorists?! No way?! You cannot be serious!

As far as I and many, many others are concerned, when someone brings the terrorism aspect into an argument, they've already lost.


But isn't that part of the propoganda excrement we Americans are being fed? That's the fear our govt was shoveling down our throats a few years ago. Not saying it really was happening. But what the OP was saying was just as ridiculous.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


We know that we already have care for everyone. It is a myth that we do not.

We know chances of survival are better here than anywhere else.



According to the CIA factbook
www.cia.gov... (would they lie?
)


the US ranks 50th in terms of life expectancy, 12 places under Jordan and 7 places under Bosnia. Canada ranks 8th.

[edit on 18/8/2009 by christianpatrick]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by injunfeller
American's are intellectually bankrupt there is no debate there, but your concepts and understanding of socialism shows that you are among the intellectually bankrupt.

who do you think created your car, or your coat, or shirt, or every other benefit that you enjoy in your life?

Enjoy the fruits of another mans labor while you can, when the creators in this reality rise up cast the parasites away, your ilk will know their place.

I hate when the ignorant beasts of burden start talking like they actually have a clue what is going on...



Wow ignorance runs rampant here ! Nice blanket statement which proves your own ignorance. Enjoy your own myopic reality my friend.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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What I find most fascinating is how easy it is to polarize and then control Earthlings.

I hear arguments no different than an Eskimo placing value judgments on African desert person for their lack of clothing. An Englishmen complaining Chinese don't speak their language, or that a North American seeing nothing wrong with leveling a forest for cattle in Brazil. Context is everything.

Comparing Seal Coats to loincloths and judging is a lack of geographic knowledge and basic understanding.

We all want to be healthy, we are all mostly unwilling to take responsibility for our own health, so we get what we deserve.

Governments and institutions guaranteeing our health and safety will never work right. The concept is not even intelligent. A new paradigm need be realized. All country's and peoples have parts for the answers and resources we all need. We need to fell the barbed wire fences placed by the sheep herders.

We could educate and cultivate all our health needs without the long-standing self appointed demigods of medicine.

While squabbling over scraps, there is potentially a unified health system of people everywhere. No one sees it because there is no massive multinational corporation over it.

We in the US are being offered baubles for our pains. The system will not work like we imagine, unless we can imagine a system inclusive of all people everywhere. Bandaids wont work on a gaping and festering wound.

We have the cures and the secrets to our health universally already. We are not currently allowed out of our pens to use this knowledge publicly. Everyone then suffers.

We also don't need a one world government to do this. We only need intelligence, a growing knowledge base, and each other.

I have tried to see the lines between our countries and people from space and the ground. I can't. Only the political map makers recognize such. There are only the lines we draw out of fear, greed and the illusions of what is ours and theirs.

It is our differences that make us all the same actually.

To our Health.

ZG



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by fleabit
Too many Americans live in an ignorant state of "omg we are so oppressed," it's sad. I understand wanting to protect freedoms, but there are so many that just don't realize just how good they have it. Just blissfully unaware of what a paradise America is, compared to so many other countries.

The healthcare system we have now is a sham. A joke. A complete mess. So the first president in quite awhile to try and do something about it is being compared to Hitler!? You've gotta be kidding me. Yea.. Hitler was always trying to reform healthcare. What jerk Obama is!


I don't think our healthcare system is a sham. It needs improvement, but not a total government takeover . I am personally happy with the plan I have, and yes, I pay for mine, and don't get it for free.
The recent outbreaks of public sentiment isn't just about the healthcare reform, it's about government intrusion into our personal lives, in every aspect, from birth to death. People have had enough. It started with giving away tax dollars to big companies, and is now centered on health care. Joe six pack has had it, and the reps from congress are getting an earfull. Next news flash--the dis-satisfaction isn't going to go away. People are mad as h___, and aren't going to take it any more.
Lastly, don't believe everything the msm tells you. They are on board with Obama all the way. They will lie about what is going on at the townhall all day long. Watch them for yourself. As they have more of them across the nation, the unions now have had more of a chance to bring in the goon squads, to fill the halls with pro reform people, and shut out as many anti reform people as they can.
Do your own thinking, and look at both sides of the story, as that's the only way to make an informed decision about the issue.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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it took you this long to figure out that being smart and reading a book and trying to get an education isn't the in thing. That it isn't popular that your a nerd,geek,etc. Have you ever seen MSM and cable. Look at the nickelodean channels they present to kids that you have to be popular, follow the latest trends.dress in the latest fashions,get the latest gadgets,etc. Now wonder the average person is so much in debt. No one wants to work an honest job,everyone has to hustile,run a scam,con someone who's trying to be legite,etc. It's popular to be a gangsta.
If you want to go back to school and better your self your looked down on. Really, its getting like Farhenheith 451. Pretty soon they will outlaw books, not guns.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by theEXxman]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by seataka




No..

Lobbying is a direct result of an act passed during WWI...that froze congress at 435 seats.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by seataka]


We're in agreement on that.

Increasing the size of Congress as well as mandating that districts be as close to being the geometry of squares as possible are two reforms I advocate.

In addition , when the Dems are thrown out of office in 2010 this is waht I would like to see Congress do (of course it will never happen)
,

in order

- Reinstate Bush tax cuts, cancel any tax hikes
- Cancel any undisbursed Stimilus funds, with clawback requirements for money dispensed in last 6 months
- If "health care / insurance / blah blah reform" has passed.. repeal it
- Same thing regarding immigration
- Immediately disband all "Community Volunteer" organizations that have any relationship with the Federal Govt., with clawback requirements for money since 2008
- End all payments to Community Organizing organizations, with clawback requirements for money since 2008
- Institute English as only language for Federal Govt
- Bar all Govt Workers from being in an Union
- Just as "Conduct Unbecoming of US Military" is actionable offense, "Violating / Not Heeding Oath to Defend Constitution" grounds for removal from office, action can be initiated by citizens by some means not subject to Govt official approval or veto.

Constitutional Amendments:
Repeal XVII Amendment (Popular Election of Senate)
Repeal XVI Amendment (Income Tax)
Repeal XIX Amendment (Just joking)

New Amendment:
Establish Federal Judicial Review Supreme Court.
- Justices must conform to Founding Father's intention in Constitutional definitions
- Justices must agree that the enumerated powers in Article I limit the powers of Congress to address any general clauses (ie: General Welfare clause is restrained by enumerated powers, not in addition to them)
- Justices can use only Constitutional text, or any other writings of the signers of Declaration of Independence or Constitution. No other precedents are usable.
- Any "novel idea" must be advocated by more than one Founder
- No legal weight is to be given by implied authority
- Any lower Federal or State Court that declares a law unconstitutional must have its decision affirmed or rejected by this Court
- Courts may only declare actions unconstitutional. They shall not direct other branches of Govt to do anything more than what is already enacted law.

Government use of Private Property for Public Use
- The Fifth Amendment shall be updated to read
from "...nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"

"nor shall private property or private income or privately held money be taken for public use, without just compensation"


First Amendment Revision:
"Freedom of Religion does not include freedom to conspire to impose Sharia law in the United States or other forms of Non-Civil Law Systems, recognizing that in American tradition, basic human rights are a consequence of man being made in the image of Biblical Deity and permitted Free Will and Free Conscience by that Creator"

and

Article II "Natural Born Citizen" clarified to mean one born of two US Citizen parents, regardless of place of birth provided both parents have x amount of years residency in the US"



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


You are correct there, the US government does not know how to run a good health care system. The proof is staring everyone in the face, look into the government run VA health care....inadequate, irresponsible and incompetent.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by 12m8keall2c
 


Gotta agree with my pal 12...

My faith in the ability of govt. to run anything ceased to exist long ago... when a govt. cannot, or maybe will not, keep roads repaired, or educate our children...I'm supposed to hop willy-nilly onto the govt. health care express?

So not happening.

Socialist...fascist...democratic...yadda...yadda...yadda... How about we go with incompetent, bumbling idiots without a lick of common sense, instead...


AMEN! I am not against American's having Gov't health care. It is an amazing concept. It is how that concept is carried out that disturbs me. Yes Canada and the UK have realy cool health care systems but the one America is trying to pass isn't so cool. I think every human on the face of the earth deserves food, health care, shelther, clothing and an education that is my dream, but damn it to hell this bill aint the answer. It is going to be just like the bail outs everyone is going to say sounds like a good idea to me, then when reality hits and we are seeing the fruits of the bill everyone is going to say well hell we fuged up again. Mark my words. As far as Obama well lord have mercy people hated Bush too, and before that Clinton and before that Bush and so on. I don't know Obama I ain't never sat down and talked to him, all I know is what the media tells me and most American's are the same. I think he is not cracked up to all he thinks he is I think he is a bit arogant but yall put me in the big house and I guess I would be arrogant to. How can we trust any one in the Gov't when they do not seem to know a hole in the ground from their own ars? They cannot balance a budget, they cannot insure the elderly or disabled are taken care of, how are we to trust them with anything else? We are only reacting to their actions.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Melissa101]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


nice rant. but i think your discounting the silent masses that make the u.s. and other influential "democracy's" cultural and economic super powers. the more you have, the less you want to loose. you yearn for immortality but cant find it. so instead you curse eden when you are really just denying the human condition. quietly mourning what you cant control. were all scared. but only the minority have the time to vent about it publicly.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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Never fails. When you cut to the end of a thread over ten pages it's just two sides having a smartass competition.

Who can come up with the most sarcastic way to call the other side uneducated. Ooh... that'll show 'em.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by abefrohman]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 04:10 AM
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I agree with you completely. too many people demonize obama to the point where it almost seems an insult band wagon rather than a legitimate argument, especially when it comes to his "socialism".


I read one ats member's post awhile back, comparing living in the US under obama to living in Myanmar or another country under a dictatorship; very ignorant with nasty fear monger undertones, no?


personally, he makes me think of the very ambitious FDR, trying to jumpstart his nation's economy


and uh fdr=ftw




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