Every Time Someone Called You A Fascist, They Might Have Been Right, Is Your Ideology Fascist?

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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Before people go leaping into this thread with Cop-hating and spewing forth nonsense about Law Enforcement, this thread is being done with the context of history and the origins of America and the system in how it was created after both the Roman and Greek formation of our United States Constitution and is not meant to be taken as just something plainly said but for ATS’ers to actually read the context, content, and intent behind the thread itself. I only hate the criminal action of some within the Judicial Branch which Law Enforcement falls under, as well as the corruption within the Legislative and Executive Branches themselves. I understand that as a whole, the system is supposed to be good, but that as most people should know, Government is made up of people, and people are fallible, greedy, or have agendas of their own. For anyone here on this forum who has known me knows I do not stand for corruption or Government becoming more powerful than it should, and as well that I actually research the information I speak about on here. Recently during a conversation with another member on ATS I came across something I had not seen in a long time and it was something I had read about when I was ten years old, the “Fasces”, being the Roman symbol of power. I have been learning about war, warfare, and the Art of War since I was six years old, so my coming across this again is important in a historical sense for me as well as for the context of this thread.

Recreation of a fasces lictoraie

If you have followed Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece like I have since I was a boy of six, then you will know what the Roman fasces is, and the symbolism of this device. Fasces from the Latin word fascis, from the meaning "bundle" symbolizes the summary of power and jurisdiction in the Roman society, and or "strength through unity". The traditional device of the Ancient Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of white birch rods or sticks, tied together with a red leather ribbon into a cylinder, and often including a bronze axe, sometimes two depending on the office held, slid in the middle of the rods, with the axe blade on the side, sticking out from the bundle in order to project the weapons blade.

It was symbologically the device of Roman Republic showing authority in many circumstances, including being carried in processions, much the way a flag might be carried today as a guide in a parade. What some people do know and others do not is that America is seen as the new Rome of modern times, and as well that the Founding Fathers modeled the Constitution and system of Government we have today after both Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, taking the best part of those countries among others as well in forming a unique new country, which is where we get our Congress and as well the system of the President and Vice-President, this latter coming from Ancient Greece, specifically the Spartan’s with their two-King system, one King would lead the troops into battle and one would stay at home to protect the people, where symbologically our President “goes to war” with his words, foreign policy, and actions, the Presidential Seal would in essence be a modern type of device similar to the fasces.

Many world governments have used the powerful imagery of the fasces as a symbol of power since the end of the now Ancient Roman Empire. It is often used to remind us of the old and now antiquated Roman republic, especially by those who want to see themselves as modern-day successors to the old republic and or its idealistic nature.




"With one hand he returns the fasces, symbol of power as appointed dictator of Rome. His other hand holds the plow, as he resumes the life of a citizen and farmer." — A statue of Cincinnatus in Cincinnati, Ohio.


So, every time you have bought into the “unity” doctrine being preached from a podium by a politician, you are in essence falling into lockstep behind a potential fascist. Remember the Pledge of Allegiance from school?


I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


How many of you remember saying the pledge before class began in school? I remember it very well and always thought it odd that we were pledging allegiance to a mere piece of cloth that is supposed to symbolize power of a nation, when I am certain now as I was then that each other country had a flag as well and that most if not all, probably had a pledge as well of some sort for their countries, in a sense an indoctrination into an ideal set of beliefs and values that is meant to make you see your country and only your country as the best among all of the others. Does this make sense to you though that you are set against your fellow humans almost immediately and it starts in your school that you are to be better than other countries and that they are in essence beneath you somehow because they do not come from your country, but they are welcome to come to your country and become a part of it, making them somehow better because of it?

Through studying many books over my lifetime, from Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Asia, Europe, on various topics, societies that have lived and died as well as many variations of history which were told after being sold, I have uncovered some dark parts of the history of our nation and the agendas that were happening behind the scenes during WWII that most people do not know about and dare not dwell on if they do not want nightmares to claw at their minds for the rest of their lives. You see, during the timeframe of Franklin D. Roosevelt, the power elite approached a man they thought was a fascist in our nation named General Smedley Butler, a Marine who was a pragmatic man, he even wrote a book after this incident called “War is a Racket”. Well, he was approached by the power elite, being fascist minded, or seeing the fascist mindset something that they wanted to follow, and asked him if they were to throw F.D.R. out of office would he take it over and run the nation the way it should be run. I am of course paraphrasing here, but over all the agenda was to make the nation of the United States of America mate with Europe in that there would be Fascist Concentration Camps across the scenic countryside.


Chicago City Hall

The book I.B.M. and the Holocaust, written by Edwin Black, a Holocaust survivors grandson, talks in detail about how the fascists infiltrated the upper echelon of the rich and elite, or got close to them and influenced their decision making or even found willing allies within the powerful tycoons of the day. Their master plan, which did begin the unfold in some regards started with the Census through I.B.M. here in America as well as Congress passing the Social Security Act which is where we get our Social Security number and pay our taxes according to this number, but what most people do not know or even comprehend is that I.B.M. had a sinister side (and still does to this day, they are running Verichip and Digital Angel)), in that it is like any business, it is out to make money, no matter who that money comes from. Through a subsidiary of I.B.M. in Germany, called Demahog, the corporation which is now famous for bringing us the desk top among other electronic toys, utilized the Hollerith Card Sorting Machine to assist the Nazi’s in doing a Census and via this they tracked down the location of all the Jews as well as the foreigners who occupied Germany at the time, because as well all know, information is power. The more information you have about someone, the more power you can keep over them according to their sick and twisted views.
During wartime, citizens of enemy countries are often watched, or interned, because of concerns that they might be a fifth column. During World War II, citizens of enemy nations were interned throughout the War by both Allied and Axis powers. This occurred even concerning the descendants of immigrants who had become citizens of their country of residence. This was the justification for the Japanese American internment along the West Coast of the United States and the Japanese Canadian internment in British Columbia. Thousands of German and other enemy nationals were also held by various US authorities.

These internment camps with Japanese American’s would have been the start of the Fascist Concentration Camps if the public had not known about them and actually demanded they be closed, not that they were, but that the public knew about them trouble enough for them to actually be utilized in a more precise and longer term effect as well as people like Smedley Butler refusing to follow what he thought was a direct conflict of the American value system, so to the fascists he was seen as a traitor, but to the people today we should see him as a hero for the people in that he did not follow these fascists, the real traitors of our country in that they wanted to eliminate anyone who was not following along with blind and ignorant submission.

The same exact time that Hitler was giving the Jews the Yellow Star of David and ushering them into Concentration Camps and tattooing them with numbers physically, we as American were getting a little piece of white paper with our Social Security numbers upon them and we were falsely promised it would never become a national identification number by Congress. I can remember my family complaining of Congress lying to their parents back then that this number would never be used to identify people, because people understood that to be reduced to just a number was in essence becoming owned livestock of the Government.
This is something I thought people might like to read, research, and discuss.

The old Mercury dime




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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Just to clarify, since I ran out of room in the character limits of posting, I am not a Fascist, nor am I promoting fascism in the least, I just wanted to discuss the fact that it may be out there and you may not necessarily see it for what it truly is to begin with.

The "right-wing" and "left-wing" thread below fits into this as well.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

Are you a fascist and you are being pushed into action?

I think that Fascism, Naziism, Marxism, are all stupid ideologies for one.

They are the ideologies of dictators and fanatics who are Hell bent on getting their way, no matter what.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


No I am not facist, but now I feel facist..lol.. Joking, good thread my friend, definately some good points and history in this thread.

Star, Flagged and DIGG'ed.


Hope you add more info, because I think some people might be confused still on some points. I am not, but some might be lost still....somehow..



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


You cover a lot of territory there. S & F for the research and expose. Interesting the circumstances under which Social Security numbers were originally issued. Very informative!



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


I love history, but the biggest problem I have with it, is there's so much propaganda to sort through.

I guess that's a challenge, and it makes it more fun and interesting for me.

I will add more as I can, I always link books to these thread, so people can look them up, and share their opinion or perspective as well.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by elfie
 


I appreciate the compliment. I forgot to link the Social Security link earlier.

Social Security in the United States

So, here it is, for all to see.


Controversy

Social Security was controversial when originally proposed, with one point of opposition being that it would cause a loss of jobs.

However, proponents argued that there was in fact an advantage: it would encourage older workers to retire, thereby creating opportunities for younger people to find jobs, which would lower the unemployment rate.

Historian Edward Berkowitz subsequently contended that the Act was a cause of the "Roosevelt Recession" in 1937 and 1938.




[edit on 17-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


The thread below, about the Bilderberg Group's plans, now that's "fascism" in action.

Bilderberger : The Global Agenda, Eugenics, Global Warming, And Biochiping Sheeple

The Bilderberg Group is a fascist front organiztion, acting in unison, commiting treason against humanity itself.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Great thread!


Stuff like this needs way more attention for sure. I want to learn more about Social Security Numbers and the cards that we get issued.

My SSN card states on the back that:


This card belongs to the Social Security Administration and you must return it if we ask for it.


So is both the car and the SSN property of the SSA?

Also, on the back of the card, in the lower right-hand-corner there is a 9 digit number stamped on it. I am curious as to what that number is suppose to represent...



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Great thread!


Stuff like this needs way more attention for sure. I want to learn more about Social Security Numbers and the cards that we get issued.

My SSN card states on the back that:


This card belongs to the Social Security Administration and you must return it if we ask for it.


So is both the car and the SSN property of the SSA?

Also, on the back of the card, in the lower right-hand-corner there is a 9 digit number stamped on it. I am curious as to what that number is suppose to represent...


You know, I had never noticed that, ever, in all of my life.

That sure sounds like you have to surrender your card and Social Security number.

If you do not have the card you cannot prove it is your number, except recite it via rote.

And if you have surrendered your Social Security card, your Driver's License would be your next form of identification, if it is suspended, you're screwed.

This thread has many avenues to go still, as it gains attention, and other people sharing their perspective.

Not many people know there was a Fascist plot in America during WWII.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Contrary to popular belief, fascism and fascist States are not systems that want to pacify people into numb robots - they actively force their citizens to engage in culture and activism, based on their individual capability. Rome managed to build an unbelievably vast empire simply because it had such a strong consensus that made each Roman citizen feeling as if being a vital part of the Roman Empire as a whole. Without the people, Rome was nothing, as seen with the numerous revolts that occurred now and then when the people felt betrayed or treated unjust by the senators.

When consensus and spirit broke down, the senators realized that the only way to keep the power together was to oppress people at their own conditions. Similarly, our modern societies today lack any form of consensus or motivational force, outside producing and consuming products and services, hence why our leaders constantly have to repeat political slogans and dogmatic messages via TV, radio and newspapers. Bread and circuses replace consensus, and like all short term fixes, it lasts as long as convenient and then collapse completely. Without the external control, and without the opium of the masses in the form of entertainment and selfish pleasures, people will run amok and revolt against the corrupt leadership.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by concernedcitizan
Contrary to popular belief, fascism and fascist States are not systems that want to pacify people into numb robots - they actively force their citizens to engage in culture and activism, based on their individual capability. Rome managed to build an unbelievably vast empire simply because it had such a strong consensus that made each Roman citizen feeling as if being a vital part of the Roman Empire as a whole. Without the people, Rome was nothing, as seen with the numerous revolts that occurred now and then when the people felt betrayed or treated unjust by the senators.


Ancient Rome was a Republic, just like America is now, and America is the New Rome.

I agree that without the people, Rome was nothing, just as much as America is without her people, however, those in power do what they want, and more often than not, they manipulate the masses into throwing away their choices.

Through many avenues, political divisiveness, limiting our choices to two parties when election time comes, you name it, they do it, just like Ancient Rome.

Pacify them into mindless robots, no, but into more compliant citizens that demand their own prison, yes, of the hive mind, and eventually we will demand more.

We are quickly moving towards the Johnny Mnemonic/Matrix system of being "Jacked In", with an electronic device in the back of our heads, the new Fascism.

Digital control over thoughts, electronic uploading of information, and programmed thinking.

Literally, instead of metaphorically, like now.


Originally posted by concernedcitizan
When consensus and spirit broke down, the senators realized that the only way to keep the power together was to oppress people at their own conditions. Similarly, our modern societies today lack any form of consensus or motivational force, outside producing and consuming products and services, hence why our leaders constantly have to repeat political slogans and dogmatic messages via TV, radio and newspapers. Bread and circuses replace consensus, and like all short term fixes, it lasts as long as convenient and then collapse completely. Without the external control, and without the opium of the masses in the form of entertainment and selfish pleasures, people will run amok and revolt against the corrupt leadership.


Bread and circuses has always been a way to appease the masses, whether Rome and the gladiatorial arena of the Flavian Amphitheatre, or the Superbowl and World Series.

It is all just to distract the masses, from what Washington D.C. and the United Nations, as well as 10 Downing Street, and many other Government offices are truly up to.

The eventual downfall of free-thought at our own hands because we've demanded it.

Unknowingly, we march ourselves into our own cages, and the lions are hungry for Christian flesh.

Bilderberger : The Global Agenda, Eugenics, Global Warming, And Biochiping Sheeple



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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The one glaring difference between the Roman Empire and the US of A is that Roman Emporers were presented with 'the purple' through the military and that's not how things work these days (since 1776).

Edward Gibbons published the six volumes of his defining work; The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire during the years 1776 - 1788 and you can bet that the epic study and the opinions to be found within held a lot of sway in how America was to be governed.




from The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbons, page xxxvi of the critical foreword by Hans-Friedrich Meuller:

Gibbon, who wrote his history at the beginning of our present republican experiment, diagnosed the ruin of the last, a ruin that was only repaired almost two thousand years later. We who look back now on Lincoln's Civil War, on two world wars, and on Truman's national security state, and who presently behold the military supremacy of the United States of America over the entire planet, may well indeed wonder what our New World Order might hold, both at home and abroad. The story of the Roman Empire offers instructive lessons: oppressive taxes for the sake of a despotic military establishment, tyrannical government, religious bigotry, endless warfare, and, finally, collapse. Let us hope (and pray) that we read not a blueprint but a salutary warning in immortal and pleasurably instructive pages.



The above was written in 2002.







[edit on 2-3-2010 by There Once Was Man]



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by There Once Was Man
 


Thanks for sharing that, I appreciate any books suggestions, and always seek knowledge.

The majority of American's do not know our Government was based upon Rome and Greece.

It is an intentional incorporation of history into our nation when it was first born.

The Founding Fathers selectively picked areas of history to strengthen America.

They wanted to make it unique from all of the current governmental systems of their time.

I originally created this thread because of my love of history.

I found it pertinent because most people do not know the history of Fascism.

They decry it about Law Enforcement, and people who support Government, but often have zero clue as to the historical context, knowing little to nothing other than Fascism.

As a word to them, nothing more than a word to them, there is a history to it.





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