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Canadian Healthcare System "Imploding"

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297


Even though the Presidnet of the United States and many "healthcare reform" supporters tout the Canadian and UK systems as examples of 'successful' public healthcare programs, those responsible for administration and provision of services have been saying otherwise.

"British Leaders: "Dismantle NHS" "Healthcare System No Longer relevant."
www.abovetopsecret.com...



British "leaders" have said nothing of the sort. This quote was from an opposition MP that was quickly slapped down by the party leader. Because the Tories know full well that any party that campaigns an election on dismantling the NHS will lose by a landslide.

I know it seems impossible for you to believe, entombed in your bubble of complete ignorance, but the vast majority of countries with "socialized" medicine (which is pretty much every other developed country apart from the US) - are quite happy about it.

If asked those people will make a democratic choice to keep it. No one seems that keen to put their health in the hands of the same kind of people who say your car insurance premiums have gone up by 50% because someone else rear ended you at some traffic lights, funnily enough.

None of us - that I have noticed, live in socialist dystopias. If you dont think your government can be trusted to run healthcare then maybe, just maybe, you should be asking more of your government, rather than outsourcing key industries to private companies that are only after profit and could not care less about your wellbeing.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ruggedtoast]

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ruggedtoast]




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Pappie54
 


I don't disgree with you. See my post above and elsewhere for an alternative that is a fusion.

I think I'll start a new thread on just that topi9c :"What system do YOU want; what WILL WORK?"

Coming soon, to a forum near you.

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

This person is in the extreme minority.


The Canadian Medical Association is by no means an "extreme minority." These are the people struggling to provide the care you are so thankful for.

Be grateful you were taken care of when Canada still could.

That time is OVER.

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
HA and HA... This is what I've been saying for years about Canada's nightmarish healthcare system, yet there are these liberal/socialist shills out there, propagandizing how wonderful is Canada's healthcare, when in fact it's a miserable shambles.


Well, here are some of her top examples of change to improve the system:


"A short-term achievable goal would be to accelerate the process of getting electronic medical records into physicians' offices," she said. "That's one I think ought to be a priority and ought to be achievable." A long-term goal would be getting health systems "talking to each other," so information can be quickly shared to help patients. www.google.com...


That's not exactly the song you're singing. Ya can't just cherry pick a headline and build an argument around it. Like I say...do what y'all want, but don't let Big Health sucker you into believing their lies.

No system is perfect unless money is no object, and even then you'll encounter screw-ups. But I can't find a Canadian that would trade our system for yours.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 



NEWSFLASH: Healthcare systems everywhere are imploding.

IMO - the reason is because we have allowed Big Pharma to take over the world's medical system, control insurance companies and insurance terms, and effectively, train our doctors.

Doctors these days no longer look at patients' overall health or prevention (which is specifically disallowed by medical insurance, which is provided by companies often owned by Big Pharma).

The current approach in medical care is to provide one drug per one symptom. FYI - the approach doesn't work.

So of course medical systems are imploding. The foundation sucks.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Dermo

Fair enough, if healthcare is not to be "socialized", then don't charge $100k to set and pin a broken leg.. because thats exactly where the US problem has arisen.


That's not entirely correct.

It's the INSURANCE that makes the price expensive. If you go in with cash in hand to the doctor it's not that bad. Much, much cheaper. There are still problems, that is, they still have to run unneeded procedures on you from time to time to lower the chances that you sue, but it's really not bad.

At some point people forgot that you don't need insurance to see a doctor. While some clinics will not see you unless you have it, there are plenty of family doctors, hospitals, and other things that have no problem seeing you if you actually have the cash.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

This person is in the extreme minority.


The Canadian Medical Association is by no means an "extreme minority." These are the people struggling to provide the care you are so thankful for.

Be grateful you were taken care of when Canada still could.

That time is OVER.

jw


Congratulations, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
Star and flag, what a great find.

Didn't I read here somewhere that the British NHS is the third largest employer or the third largest "business" in the world.

True, that. NHS is the 3rd largest 'business' in the entire world!

And it is BANKRUPT!

Great model, no? (Ask the lenders, investors, shareholders, dealers, and retirees of GM and Chrysler of how the government "helps" big companies.)

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by ruggedtoast

None of us - that I have noticed, live in socialist dystopias. If you dont think your government can be trusted to run healthcare then maybe, just maybe, you should be asking more of your government, rather than outsourcing key industries to private companies that are only after profit and could not care less about your wellbeing.


Well wait a minute.

You're suggesting that we ask more out of something we don't trust? That doesn't quite make sense.

One thing Americans know well is that power corrupts.

So, we have a choice. Having something we don't trust do something critical, or having people compete over serving us. Believe it or not, most Americans are satisfied with the level of care we receive. It's not a small margin either. We aren't skirting on about half liking and half hating it like Germany is. It's at about 85% approval.

Those 15% that don't approve of it are probably the ones who use the government run health care, because, surely, those 85% aren't the ones using it.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by jdub297
 


Don't forget the $7 billion dollar loss they're gonna have this year also.


Excellent point!

Fee for (government)service, poor service, reduction of service, increasing subsidies, and a net loss anyway: Just what Dr. Obama ordered!

Where do I get mine?
Can I have another?

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by crimvelvet
Star and flag, what a great find.

Didn't I read here somewhere that the British NHS is the third largest employer or the third largest "business" in the world.

True, that. NHS is the 3rd largest 'business' in the entire world!

And it is BANKRUPT!


What on earth are you talking about. Do you have any sources for this utter garbage you are talking? Do you even know what bankrupt means?

The US spends twice as much per capita on health as the UK - manages to have an infant mortality rate which is double Britain's and leaves one fifth of its citizens with no access to preventative medicine.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Credge
 


A friend of my old man's was golfing in the US about a year ago. He had Irish health insurance.

Anyway, at some stage in the trip, he broke his leg just below the knee and needed Xray's, two pins, small surgery, a cast and a prescription which he paid quite a bit for. When he got back to the UK, all the follow ups were done in Ireland.

A few weeks after he returned, he got an invoice in the mail from the US hospital for just under USD $100,000. To be paid by his insurance company - the insurance company informed him they wouldn't be paying USD100k for a broken leg and as far as I know there is going to be some sort of legal battle between the US hospital and the Insurer.

One hundred thousand [snip] dollars

What the hell is that all about?

Of course the whole healthcare system is messed up if your Hospitals are ripping off you insurance companies.. then your health insurance companies will rip off the consumers and then noone is happy or healthy except the wealthy.

To be fair, a similar system is in place in my country but it is still ridiculous and unsustainable.

Healthcare should be cheap if not free.. Always and for ever.. Simple as that.

Its a right not a privilege.

 


Censor circumvention removed


[edit on 17/8/09 by masqua]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Credge


Those 15% that don't approve of it are probably the ones who use the government run health care, because, surely, those 85% aren't the ones using it.


The 15% who dont approve of it would equate to 47 million residents of the richest country on earth who have no health plan cover at all.

People who end up in places like this:

RAM Clinic



[edit on 17-8-2009 by ruggedtoast]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by ruggedtoast

entombed in your bubble of complete ignorance\


Wow, can't you think of any other names upon which to base your debate?


If you dont think your government can be trusted to run healthcare then maybe, just maybe, you should be asking more of your government, rather than outsourcing key industries to private companies that are only after profit and could not care less about your wellbeing.


Spoken like a true fascist.

Government has no business running "key industries." Private companies in the USA created "key industries."

They were never "outsourced." They were ruined though government intervention!

Ignorant, moi?

Pot and kettle. Projection.

Deny ignorance!

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Spoken like a true fascist.



I know this isn't my argument but..

Who's living in a fascist, corporatist country?

I assume Texas and Indiana are still a part of the US of A?

Ever hear the phrase "Too big to Fail"? That is fascism right there.

Sorry



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by jdub297
 

Doctors these days no longer look at patients' overall health or prevention (which is specifically disallowed by medical insurance, which is provided by companies often owned by Big Pharma).

So of course medical systems are imploding. The foundation sucks.


Well-known studies have shown that the average doctor interrupts his patient within the first 30 seconds of asking for a "history." After the average visit, doctor and patient disagree 50% of the time on what the visit was for, anyway!

Doctors and insurance have to share much of the blame for the status quo.

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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A question for our American readers..

Here's the scenario: You are on vacation in the UK visiting the sites and enjoying the history of our green and pleasant island, when you slip and twist your ankle whilst on a sightseeing expedition. You suspect that you have fractured a bone in your ankle as you cannot hobble more than a few yards in your condition...what to do?

Do you:

a) go to a BUPA or other private hospital that accepts your credit card for charges totalling, say £2,000 to be seen by a doctor, x-rayed, have your ankle re-set and put in a cast and a dose of painkillers?

b) go to the local A&E department of an NHS hospital where you may have to wait for a while to be seen, get exactly the same treatment for free, but in the knowledge that we, the British taxpayers, are paying for your treatment?

honest answers please



[edit on 17-8-2009 by Taikonaut]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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I live in a country with a "free" health care (UK), I have no issues getting prompt medical care when required, medication is cheap and the cost is removed at source so to me it feels like it costs nothing. I don't have an issue with those rich enough to buying their own if they want a better services but I do have a problem with rich saying "you don't deserve care" to those below them. Get it grip



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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Don't be so cocky about the US' "awesome" health care system. It's awesome if you have a lot of money, yes. Or it was.

The truth is, Canada, and every other country is running out of money, which is why their healthcare sucks so bad. The only solution I see is healthcare being funded on the local level.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by ruggedtoast

Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by crimvelvet
Star and flag, what a great find.

Didn't I read here somewhere that the British NHS is the third largest employer or the third largest "business" in the world.

True, that. NHS is the 3rd largest 'business' in the entire world!

And it is BANKRUPT!


What on earth are you talking about. Do you have any sources for this utter garbage you are talking? Do you even know what bankrupt means?

The US spends twice as much per capita on health as the UK - manages to have an infant mortality rate which is double Britain's and leaves one fifth of its citizens with no access to preventative medicine.


The facts.

www.cia.gov...

The US has less than 2 more infant mortalities in 1000 births than the UK. Thats less than .2%, very possibly clerical errors especially considering the different definitions of stillbirth the EU uses.

www.eurocat.ulster.ac.uk...



Styria (Austria) Population-based I Province of Styria Late fetal death from a Crown Foot Length>=35cm. From 01.01.95 limit of >=500g introduced by law Up to 1 year

Mainz (Germany) Population-based III Mainz District (Rhineland Palatinate) Weight ***8805; 500g Recorded up to 1 week
Saxony-Anhalt (Germany) Population-based III Federal State Saxony-Anhalt Weight >=500 g introduced by law 1.4.94 (before 1.4.94 >=1000 g) Recorded up to 1 week. Available up to 1 year

Odense (Denmark) Population-based I County of Fünen Gestational age at 28 weeks or more. Up to 7 years for cases seen at paediatric department.

Antwerp (Belgium) Population-based I Province of Antwerp >180 days Recorded up to 1year.
Hainaut (Belgium) Population-based II Provinces of Hainaut (South) & Namur 28 weeks or 180 days Recorded up to 1.

Paris (France) Population-based III Greater Paris 22 weeks after LMP Recorded up to 1 week (hospital discharge)
Strasbourg (France) Population-based III Department of Bas-Rhin Before 1993: 180 days. After 1993: 22 gestational weeks 2 to 5 years


Thats the statute of limitations for stillbirth among EU countries. The need for it is due to an infant may actually live, even though it does not meet the measurements required to be recorded as a live birth. In France for example, the infant lives until the age of 4 and then passes, under some conditions the death would be recorded as a stillbirth and not count as an infant mortality.

In the US when the infant emerges from the mother, placenta unremoved and umbillical cord still attached, and the infant shows any sign of life it is recorded as a live birth. At any point after the infant dies it counts as an infant mortality, in the US.



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