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Canadian Healthcare System "Imploding"

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posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


In "the business," we have palintiff's whores and insurance whores, it doesn't really make a diiference until it hits the jury.

members here post according to what they read in the OP.

If you are dissatisafied with the Canadian press, take it up with them.

On ATS, the truth is the spoken truth. Change it if you can, but do not deny it.

jw




posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver due to government underfunding, leaked paper

www.vancouversun.com...


VANCOUVER — Vancouver patients needing neurosurgery, treatment for vascular diseases and other medically necessary procedures can expect to wait longer for care, NDP health critic Adrian Dix said Monday.

Dix said a Vancouver Coastal Health Authority document shows it is considering chopping more than 6,000 surgeries in an effort to make up for a dramatic budgetary shortfall that could reach $200 million.

“This hasn’t been announced by the health authority … but these cuts are coming,” Dix said, citing figures gleaned from a leaked executive summary of “proposed VCH surgical reductions.”

The health authority confirmed the document is genuine, but said it represents ideas only.

“It is a planning document. It has not been approved or implemented,” said spokeswoman Anna Marie D’Angelo.

Dr. Brian Brodie, president of the BC Medical Association, called the proposed surgical cuts “a nightmare.”

“Why would you begin your cost-cutting measures on medically necessary surgery? I just can’t think of a worse place,” Brodie said.

According to the leaked document, Vancouver Coastal — which oversees the budget for Vancouver General and St. Paul’s hospitals, among other health-care facilities — is looking to close nearly a quarter of its operating rooms starting in September and to cut 6,250 surgeries, including 24 per cent of cases scheduled from September to March and 10 per cent of all medically necessary elective procedures this fiscal year.

The plan proposes cutbacks to neurosurgery, ophthalmology, vascular surgery, and 11 other specialized areas.

As many of 112 full-time jobs — including 13 anesthesiologist positions — would be affected by the reductions, the document says.

“Clearly this will impact the capacity of the health-care system to provide care, not just now but in the future,” Dix said.

Further reductions in surgeries are scheduled during the Olympics, when the health authority plans to close approximately a third of its operating rooms.

Two weeks ago, Dix released a Fraser Health Authority draft communications plan listing proposed clinical care cuts, including a 10-per-cent cut in elective surgeries and longer waits for MRI scans.

The move comes after the province acknowledged all health authorities together will be forced to cut staff, limit some services and increase fees to find $360 million in savings during the current fiscal year.

In all, Fraser Health is looking at a $160-million funding shortfall.

D’Angelo said Vancouver Coastal’s deficit is closer to $90 million — almost a third of which ($23 million) has already been absorbed through reductions in non-clinical administration efficiencies.

Vancouver Coastal performed 67,000 surgeries last year, an increase of 6,500 surgeries over 2007.

“What has now happened is that now our wait times are about 25 per cent lower than the provincial average,” D’Angelo said. “We have put a dent in that wait list.”

Brodie acknowledged surgical waiting times have dropped significantly in recent years, particularly for patients needing hip and joint replacements.

He said the proposed cuts threaten those advancements.

“It sounds like we are going backwards here,” he said.

Total health spending in British Columbia was $15.7 billion this year, up about four per cent over last year’s total of 15.1 billion, according to figures provided by the ministry of health.


Dr. Brian Brodie, president of the BC Medical Association, called the proposed surgical cuts “a nightmare.”

“Why would you begin your cost-cutting measures on medically necessary surgery? I just can’t think of a worse place,” Brodie said.

What is this?



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

If you are dissatisafied with the Canadian press, take it up with them.


You know how when you asked that before...I addressed it? Now, if I presented an article in praise of our system, would you be defending the merits of that piece as vociferously as you are one that suits your ideology?

Again, this Pythonesque argument of yours is entirely disingenuous. Try coming up with something better...and your peeps might even get re-elected.


Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver due to government underfunding, leaked paper.

What is this?


Read the thread, please.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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Inbetween all the gobly-goop, the Cdn Health Care sys is not bad. The service from start to present after a 2005 heart attack has been and continues to be exceptional and at NO CHARGE.
Thanks to our non-socialist medical sys which most Cdns trust. It's not perfect but it works.

Decoy



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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The Kernel just finished up this thread and my head aches. Never too early for Mash though. This I found interesting.


Originally posted by Phenomium
I lived there for 10 years and YES...your healthcare is imploding. My wife was a nurse there and I heard all the stories on a nightly basis and even attended some of the meetings.


You attended medical team meetings? Sorry but the Kernel is calling Gator# on this. A total fabrication. This casts doubt on what you are saying. As to the rest of your rant against our northern cousins, I'm ashamed to share nationality with you.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by centurion1211
And there you have it. Real boots on the ground information on canadian healthcare from someone working on the inside of their system.


You believe anything that anyone says on the internet? As long as it serves your bias? Good luck with that. Let me guess, this is a personal attack.


Personal attack? If anyone should have any "paranoia" - and I don't - it would be me since a certain mod seems to like to follow me around and challenge everything I say ...

Believe everything on the internet? No, we all have to pick and choose what to believe - just as you do when you choose to believe that everything canadian is the pinnacle of "wonderfulness".



Wow. Can't counter in substance, so the mod goes for the person? No one here has criticized Canada or the Canadian system.

We've offered EXAMPLES of criticisms of the Canadian system relevant to whether the U.S. should adopt a similar system.

Thin skins do not qualify moderation. In fact, they should disqualify.

Deny Ignorance!

jw

[edit on 18-8-2009 by jdub297]


Yes, and notice that the mod in question has ignored my comment about what is basically "stalking" here on ATS. They just like to pop up on threads I'm on and post something contrary and often derogatory (as was done here) when I post. I've even filed compaints before, but like a lot of places, they take care of their own. Seems like absolute power can corrupt absolutely - even here on ATS.



[edit on 8/19/2009 by centurion1211]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Yes, and notice that the mod in question has ignored my comment about what is basically "stalking" here on ATS. They just like to pop up on threads I'm on and post something contrary and often derogatory (as was done here) when I post. Seems like absolute power can corrupt absolutely - even here on ATS.



[edit on 8/19/2009 by centurion1211]


No, my point was that you are taking one, probably fabricated story, to suit your argument against those that know what's going on. Typical.

As to stalking you, I haven't been on ATS for 2 months, because of this BS. So how is that stalking you. I am entitled to my opinion as much as any other member. Remember, Moderators are people too (and they have opinions). It's a poor tactic to call "abuse" when your argument fails. But hey, if that's all you've got, whatever.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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I wonder how many Canadians are unsatisfied? 10%? 15%? Obviously the majority are satisfied, right?

Can't blame the majority of Canadians who are happy with what they have not wanting to bail on their system for the sake of the minority.

Now, how many in the U.S. don't have insurance? 15%? 18%? 20%? How many of that percentage dont have it because they dont want it, not because they cant afford it? 5%?

But the U.S. majority should dump their system for the sake of the U.S. minority, right?



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I wonder how many Canadians are unsatisfied? 10%? 15%? Obviously the majority are satisfied, right?


Right.


But the U.S. majority should dump their system for the sake of the U.S. minority, right?


Wrong. America should do as it sees fit. Just don't malign that which you have no knowledge and PLEASE use some logic and listen to people that are trying to correct misrepresentations.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by centurion1211
Yes, and notice that the mod in question has ignored my comment about what is basically "stalking" here on ATS. They just like to pop up on threads I'm on and post something contrary and often derogatory (as was done here) when I post. Seems like absolute power can corrupt absolutely - even here on ATS.



[edit on 8/19/2009 by centurion1211]


No, my point was that you are taking one, probably fabricated story, to suit your argument against those that know what's going on. Typical.

As to stalking you, I haven't been on ATS for 2 months, because of this BS. So how is that stalking you. I am entitled to my opinion as much as any other member. Remember, Moderators are people too (and they have opinions). It's a poor tactic to call "abuse" when your argument fails. But hey, if that's all you've got, whatever.


No, you haven't been on here for the last two months - at least I haven't seen you. But what I'm talking about goes back quite awhile and for quite awhile. And of course mods can post their own opinions. Never said they couldn't. But there is a difference between posting opinions and what I'm talking about. Just like there is a clear difference between moderating a forum and attacking the posters because no one will give a mod or super-mod a warn - kind of like how police get away with speeding by just showing their badge.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by centurion1211]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
No, you haven't been on here for the last two months - at least I haven't seen you. But what I'm talking about goes back quite awhile and for quite awhile. And of course mods can post their own opinions. Never said they couldn't. But there is a difference between posting opinions and what I'm talking about. Just like there is a clear difference between moderating a forum and attacking the posters because no one will give a mod or super-mod a warn - kind of like how police get away with speeding by just showing their badge.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by centurion1211]


The Complaints function is in your Member Center. File one. Now can we get back to the topic?



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Just a question, but how many threads on U.S. issues have you weighed in on that you likely - as a canadian - have no direct knowledge and experience with - using the excuse that what we do in the U.S. affects canada, so it's OK? Well, isn't the shoe on the other foot now with people here weighing in on canadian issues because they may affect us in the U.S.?

So, it seems that canadian pride needs to be dumped for the sake of this discussion, or also stay out of U.S. issues. You really don't get to have it both ways.


If I may weigh in on this discussion...look at the original post! It comes from a Canadian source and is being used here to spook those who support a national health system in the States. Otherwise you wouldn't give a rat's arse what happens up here.

You right-wingers sucked us into this debate...don't get all wounded if we deign to stick up for ourselves and our institutions!.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by centurion1211
Just a question, but how many threads on U.S. issues have you weighed in on that you likely - as a canadian - have no direct knowledge and experience with - using the excuse that what we do in the U.S. affects canada, so it's OK? Well, isn't the shoe on the other foot now with people here weighing in on canadian issues because they may affect us in the U.S.?

So, it seems that canadian pride needs to be dumped for the sake of this discussion, or also stay out of U.S. issues. You really don't get to have it both ways.


If I may weigh in on this discussion...look at the original post! It comes from a Canadian source and is being used here to spook those who support a national health system in the States. Otherwise you wouldn't give a rat's arse what happens up here.

You right-wingers sucked us into this debate...don't get all wounded if we deign to stick up for ourselves and our institutions!.


Look, we are worried - and we have a right to be - when your system is talked about as a model for something that might be tried here. So, if a canadian says there is something wrong with your system, we are going to sit up and take notice. What is so hard to understand about that?

What if it was the other way around? What if ottawa started saying they wanted to dump your current parliament for a congress like we have. Tell me you wouldn't be all over paying attention to people from here that say our congressional system is flawed.

Step back and look at the bigger picture to understand what this thread is all about. It is not about canadian pride, it is about fear of having a healthcare system we don't trust imposed on us.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Look, we are worried - and we have a right to be - when your system is talked about as a model for something that might be tried here. So, if a canadian says there is something wrong with your system, we are going to sit up and take notice. What is so hard to understand about that?

What if it was the other way around? What if ottawa started saying they wanted to dump your current parliament for a congress like we have. Tell me you wouldn't be all over paying attention to people from here that say our congressional system is flawed.

Step back and look at the bigger picture to understand what this thread is all about. It is not about canadian pride, it is about fear of having a healthcare system we don't trust imposed on us.


I can relate to what you are saying...entirely. I object to loaded media reports being touted as a true indication of the state of affairs up here...and that is the biggest game going in this debate, and the one that I truly take offense to. Our system is based on the premise that we all pull together...that we all get taken care of. What I hear from a lot of the Right is that there ain't no way I'm picking up the tab for those freeloaders, etc, etc.

I can't argue that...it's a whole 'nother discussion and if you don't get it now, you never will. But this might be helpful in your inquiries. Here is a think piece published by that acknowledged rat’s nest of Canadian propagandists…the Denver Post. A feet-on-the-ground commentary by a Canadian-born Health Care professional living and practicing in the US.


Debunking Canadian health care myths
Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.
Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.
Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.
Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.
Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.
Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.
Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.
Myth: There aren't enough doctors in Canada. www.denverpost.com...


Further, here are links to videos of average middle-class Americans…so I’m told…promoting their vision of America:
www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

You find what you seek out, not necessarily the truth, but what you were looking for. Adjust your filters, and good luck.


[edit on 19-8-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


This is what happens when you get the Olympics and the NDP feels it's time for their biweekly complaint about the incumbent party.

A press release a group of doctors put out in response to Dr. Oulette's ideas:

CMA Blueprint for Health Care Transformation Takes the Wrong Road: CDM



Those components of the Blueprint that call for action on Pharmacare, home care and electronic health records are in keeping with existing CMA policy and are uncontroversial. However, competition and a market oriented "Activity Based Funding" model are key parts of the Blueprint.

"The proposed approach is based on European models, but many of those models aren't applicable here," Dr. Woollard noted. "Europe has 50% more doctors per person and none of the kinds of remote rural locations we need to serve, but this blueprint takes none of that into account," he added.

The CMA's own polling shows that the majority of doctors and Canadian citizens do not support these approaches. Furthermore, those European countries that have experimented with market-based reforms have not found them to be in the best interests of patients.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


The CMA's own polling shows that the majority of doctors and Canadian citizens do not support these approaches. Furthermore, those European countries that have experimented with market-based reforms have not found them to be in the best interests of patients.

"The CMA's own polling" selected Oullette and Doig as their president!

Anyone can write a 'letter to the editor.' Canadian doctors have spoken.


European countries that have experimented with market-based reforms have not found them to be in the best interests of patients.

Gov't. adopts a "plan."
Gov't. "tests" alternatives.
Gov't."Plan" is 'better.'

What do you expect?

Deny Ignorance!
jw

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jdub297]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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Firms with Obama ties profit from health push
news.yahoo.com...
Health Insurers Fear Probe By House Dems Is Reprisal for Opposing Part of Obama's Plan
www.foxnews.com...

Canadians visit U.S. to get care
Deal lets many go to Michigan hospitals

freep.com...

The Death Book for Veterans
Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society.

online.wsj.com...


the VA panel of experts that sought to update "Your Life, Your Choices" between 2007-2008 did not include any representatives of faith groups or disability rights advocates. And as you might guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as "Compassion and Choices").



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Which has little to do with the topic. This topic claims the Canada's medical system is imploding. It isn't. No matter the Google bytes you find will change the fact that our system is working fine. Like I said, look at the mean, not the abstract. It seems that some here are not willing to listen to knowlegable members on this issue.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



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