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Canadian Healthcare System "Imploding"

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
We prefer our system, for all its flaws. Get over it.


Good luck to you.

I have no qualms about your satisfaction.

I have merely cited one of YOUR articles about YOUR system for consideration in the debate about OUR system.

I make no judgments about what is good for Canadians. I do not want my governemnt using your system as the platform for "reform."

I do not care what Canada does about anything, but I will not sit quietly and let my governement use YOU as an example when the example is being criticized from within.

Nothing personal.

Simple, really.

jw




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Trust me mate, I'm going nowhere. I WILL continue to challenge this BS with logic though.

Super!

Answer my original questions. (and a couple of others)

Is the Canadian press fearmongering in the subject article?

Is the current president of the Canadian Merdical Association a fearmonger?

Is the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association a fearmonger?

Is the Canadian Medical Association a fearmonger?

Why attack ME, when your press and professional associations say these things? (I do not vouch for their truth. I am only relating what they say.)

Hmmm?

(by the way, I'm NOT your "mate;" just to allay suspicion)

jw

[edit on 18-8-2009 by jdub297]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Health should be free anywhere. What system will finally work. I live in the United States of America yet I do not have a Dr to go to when I am sick. I went to the hospital and medicare/medicaid refused to pay $200 of it. The only health care I can get is at a free health care clinic where you sit for an hour when you have an appointment. You can't even get an appointment for a month out. If you have an ear infection you either hope it goes away, risk losing your hearing or go to the ER. If you go to the ER for something that is considered minor health insursance won't cover it.
My sister has heart problem and had to go to the hospital. The insurance refused to cover the ambulance ride and most of the hospital bill. Her problem was considered minor because it was not life threatening.
I am so sick of low quality high costs health care systems.
Where do we go from here?
How do we fix it?
If the free health care system does not work then what does?
If I did not have insurance the first thing I would cut out of my budget was health care because it is too expensive.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Oh, here we go again.


Originally posted by jdub297
Is the Canadian press fearmongering in the subject article?


Yes, good news doesn't sell.


Is the current president of the Canadian Merdical Association a fearmonger?


Pointed out 3 times that he has a vested interest in private care. Do you read what people are writing?


Is the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association a fearmonger?


I don't know this person.


Is the Canadian Medical Association a fearmonger?


Yes, pointed out 2 times that it is in their interest to gain more.


Why attack ME, when your press and professional associations say these things? (I do not vouch for their truth. I am only relating what they say.)

Hmmm?

jw


3 out of 4 have been shown to be in the business of "fear". Why can't you get that?



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
I do not care what Canada does about anything, but I will not sit quietly and let my governement use YOU as an example when the example is being criticized from within.


And we won't sit quietly while our system is maligned because another country is thinking about changing their program (that has nothing to do with us) and looking for that elusive never-to-exist perfect system.

Bit of an impasse, I'd say.

I did post what the next CMA president (in 4 months) had to say and he recommends the opposite of what Dr. Doig does. Here it is again:

www.theglobeandmail.com...


The CMA's current and previous presidents have supported a bigger presence of private or parallel medicine alongside Canada's public system, but Dr. Turnbull is a strong opponent of two-tier health care.

He said his election means "that the doctors of Ontario, at least - and I think the doctors of Ontario are representative of doctors in the rest of the country - feel that there is a desperate need for meaningful change in the way we deliver medical services.

"But they want to see that done in the context of the publicly funded health-care system. They don't want to move to a two-tiered system. If I can bring anything [to the CMA president's job], it's a cohesive vision of health care that everyone can buy into."


The CMA is not a monolithic entity and the members have varied opinions.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


I "get" it completely. When Canada speaks, people listen.

I can't help that.

Are these stories "off limits?"

Where have I embellished or added?

Why attack me?

jw



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
And we won't sit quietly while our system is maligned because another country is thinking about changing their program (that has nothing to do with us) and looking for that elusive never-to-exist perfect system.

I am making no judgment. I have only reported what I read.

Your own press is making the statements, not me. I hope you are happy and well taken care of.

I will make known what your own people (regardless of the strength of their voice) say about a system we propose to emulate.

Sorry.

jw



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
I will make known what your own people (regardless of the strength of their voice) say about a system we propose to emulate.


What 'own people'? The ones who want more private healthcare or the ones that don't?

The vast majority is the one who likes the public system. Looking at the CMA presidents, you're going from guys really into privitization, into someone slightly more moderate (Doig) to the next president-elect who is strongly opposed to privitization. If I were inclined to read more into this that what is on the surface, I'd say it's a shift on the part of the doctors away from further privitization.

PS - Yes, I am happy, healthy and well taken care of under our system as are my loved ones and complete strangers I have never met. Thank you for the well wishes.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by jdub297
 


I have just realized that you really don't want a rational discussion on this. You just want to point out to us that our system sucks, yours is the bees knees, haha take that you socialist hosers.


You haven't read this thread or links.

I DETEST the U.S. system. It is a scam. It is broken.

I detest the idea that Canada's system is better. It is not.

Simple, really.

You really haven't read my posts; that's obvious. Want a serious discussion? Want a viable alternative? U2U, and see what you get.

You do not have the interest or the guts; you are a troll.

jw


So I lay out a well rationed answer to the questions you ask, you ignore it, continue to say you don't want anyhting to do with our system, then say you don't care either way, and call everyone else a troll? I will take you up on your offer. I will U2U. Bullies and little internet trolls do not scare me. Not too sure why I wouldn't have guts to call you out on your bs.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Duzey
And we won't sit quietly while our system is maligned because another country is thinking about changing their program (that has nothing to do with us) and looking for that elusive never-to-exist perfect system.

I am making no judgment. I have only reported what I read.

Your own press is making the statements, not me. I hope you are happy and well taken care of.

I will make known what your own people (regardless of the strength of their voice) say about a system we propose to emulate.

Sorry.

jw


Now even the mods are using "attack the messenger" tactics here. You've got 2 of them doing it, apparently just because they feel they have to defend canada at all costs. Don't you just love it?

What part of "I'm just reporting what's in the news" don't these people get?



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
I am making no judgment. I have only reported what I read.

Your own press is making the statements, not me. I hope you are happy and well taken care of.
I will make known what your own people (regardless of the strength of their voice) say about a system we propose to emulate.


Nonsense...you have been made fully aware of the bias inherent in that piece...from the source to the subject.

And you have the nerve to get disingenuous about 'our own press' when you, yourself, come from the land of the partisan news source. It's all been spelled out to you and you insist on playing the naif. It ill becomes you.

Like we keep saying...do what you want, but don't hold us up as a system gone bad because it suits your politics, and whine about us not tolerating your brand of Bravo Sierra.

Float a better plan...and demand more of your right-wing leadership, cuz they are sure letting you down. Christ, it's getting embarrassing.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Silly Yankees


Double standard anyone? You all realize that there is more than one political group in Canada, right? Just because we're a left leaning socialist nation doesn't mean that everyone is in constant agreement.

By your, clearly right-wing logic, any individual left-wing personality that speaks their mind is correct and you are wrong.

As hard as it is to believe, there are neocons in Canada. Ontario has had a neo-conservative right wing povincial government for years; don't make me give specific policy examples, I will ad nausium.

This person is in the extreme minority. I have two "serious" medical conditions and I'd probably be a homeless bum for not our health care system. Those comments, to an educated Canadian, are foolish at best, give me a break.


You're just another bigmouthed canadian who is saying everything you can to keep your secret...that you guys are not anywhere as evolved as you think you are. You are the fooilsh one because you keep speaking despite the fact that everyone here has evidence that canada is a broken down joke, with too much pride about nothing, who doesn't want to admit that the only thing you guys had to brag about is now on the chopping block rendering you guys a bigger joke than before. I lived there for 10 years and YES...your healthcare is imploding. My wife was a nurse there and I heard all the stories on a nightly basis and even attended some of the meetings. Your LPN's are being attacked and faded out to be replaced by filipino (cheap labour), and your RN's sit around and do nothing while LPN's do it all. So being the brainiacs that canadians are......you get rid of your only true workers to bring in inexperienced cheap labour......real smart! So you have to ailments and they have kept you from being a bum huh? Well, good for you, but in the near future there will be a new reality.... the free ride is over and your bragging rights have been denied. canada will be nothing more than used land with a people of braggarts who brag of NOTHING! Call us silly yankees, we call you the laughing stock of all nations. When all wars in all other countries irritate people, we can always just look at canada and calm ourselves with a good laugh. Why do you think you have one of the 2 largest nations in the world and only like 30 million people living there? BECAUSE NO ONLE WANTS TO LIVE THERE! canada the country is very nice, the people are a different story though. The people are the most irritating, condescending people you'll ever meet. They walk around all day with an undeserved sense of self worth that is not unlike the French themselves..which is probably their biggest influence, as the French are taking over their country as we speak.This OP knows nothing of the country he lives in or is in total denial.
canadians hate us because we know nothing about their country, yet they are forced to learn about ours. What does that tell you canada? You are being forced to learn of the greatest country going and we are not forced to learn about a country as insignificant as yours. Why? I know your history....there is nothing to learn! You guys have done nothing except self serving projects since your conception as a country. Who cares about those who only think of themselves. canada is to the U.S. what Texas is to the U.S, a bothersome embarassment that we have to deal with like a snot-slinging drunk at a party.You just wish they would go away, but you have to just keep it in mind that all drunks think they are WAY better than they really are and take credit for things they don't do and justify those horrible things they actually do. You are just a mouthpiece for unfounded pride in a country who has accomplished nothing on the world scale. You canadians brag about being so much smarter than the Americans, but at least America has contributed to the world...some things bad, some things good, but at least we didn't just sit there and suck the teat of a Queen from another country and ride the coat tails of our neighboring country and take credit for it. You guys would have NOTHING today if America didn't let you keep it. Your health care is nothing now. This is a fact! No one is listening to you and in case you couldn't tell they are ignoring you. The only reason I respond is because I love chewing canadians up and spitting them out. That is what canadians are good for. Canadian women are hot though....some of them. I would brag about that if I were you. Your women are hot, and well grounded (some).... but the men in canada are quite possibly the "missing link" the world is looking for...they really are a bunch of cavemen there. Just a note to all American men, you are like a fresh drink of water after walking out of the desert, to the canadian women. They have to endure egotistical, ape-like behavior from their men on a daily basis and are dying to meet American men. This is true.They say American men treat them like real women and canadian men treat them like garbage and leave them at home while hunting and fishing and going to bars etc. As I said..embarrasing.


[edit on 18-8-2009 by Phenomium]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Being a moderator doesn't preclude me from having an opinion and if you think repeating his statement using Canada instead of the US is attacking him, feel free to use the complaint button.


I believe we are trying to show that this article does not represent the opinion of every doctor or Canadian and in fact, is diametrically opposed to what the majority of Canadians actually think and debating the validity of the statements made in thread.

I've twice given an example that Dr. Doig's replacement, Dr. Turnbull, is opposed to Dr. Doig's drive to privatize but that bit of news reporting is getting ignored.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Duzey]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Phenomium
 


And there you have it. Real boots on the ground information on canadian healthcare from someone working on the inside of their system.

Now waiting for the canadian pride people to start attacking that messenger, too.




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by PhenomiumThe only reason I respond is because I love chewing canadians up and spitting them out. That is what canadians are good for.


Just think, if you have kept up your health card, you could come up here and be treated free for all that rage and discomfort. If your wife was screwed by the system, I daresay it was by the neocons who fired nurses so they could give tax breaks to their pals.

Come on back...all's forgiven.




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Please provide links to these "facts". Big mouth, meet black kettle.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by Phenomium
 


And there you have it. Real boots on the ground information on canadian healthcare from someone working on the inside of their system.

Now waiting for the canadian pride people to start attacking that messenger, too.


I donno, is it misplaced pride to get cured of cancer for $32 out of pocket? One negative opinion out of how many positive posters is hardly 'boots on the ground'. And further, if his manner of discourse works for you...you are scraping pretty low.

Self edit to say, just get a grip...we Colonials have managed to hold off the American threat...go hassle some Brits for a while.


[edit on 18-8-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Phenomium
You are just a mouthpiece for unfounded pride in a country who has accomplished nothing on the world scale. You canadians brag about being so much smarter than the Americans, but al least America has contributed to the world...


Really?

WW1 Canada 1914-1919. Sent 1/3 of it's population.

US- 1917- 1919

WW2- Canada 1939-1945

US 1941-1945

Korea- Pretty much the same.

WoT- We've been there in Afghanistan since the beginning.


You guys would have NOTHING today if America didn't let you keep it.


You've tried it 3 times, try again.


The only reason I respond is because I love chewing canadians up and spitting them out. That is what canadians are good for.


[edit on 18-8-2009 by Phenomium]


Bring it. I won't bite too hard. Patriot idiots, not Americans in general, are easy to chew up.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Phenomium
 


So all Canadians are good for is chewing up and spitting out? Great, you are a real prize. I am sure that the examples of Canadian ingenuity are lost on you, and while I was never a part of them, you were not a part of anything great that the US has ever done, so you are in the same boat. At least I hope you are getting some kind of sick pleasure out of trying to use someone else to make you feel better about being you.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by Phenomium
 


And there you have it. Real boots on the ground information on canadian healthcare from someone working on the inside of their system.

Now waiting for the canadian pride people to start attacking that messenger, too.



So, when one person comes along who's wife supposedly works in Canadian health care and starts dropping random claims that support your politics with zero evidence to back it up, that's hunky dory. But the multitude of other Canadians voicing their opinions that the system isn't imploding, but could be tweaked, is just blind patriotism and are to be ignored?



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