Canadian Healthcare System "Imploding"

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 06:20 AM
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Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors




The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."

www.google.com...


Even though the Presidnet of the United States and many "healthcare reform" supporters tout the Canadian and UK systems as examples of 'successful' public healthcare programs, those responsible for administration and provision of services have been saying otherwise.

"British Leaders: "Dismantle NHS" "Healthcare System No Longer relevant."
www.abovetopsecret.com...

When will people see that the emperor has no clothes?

Deny ignorance!

jw


[edit on 17-8-2009 by jdub297]




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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Looks like Obama's comparing the U.S. Postal Service to socialized medicine was a correct analogy.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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HA and HA... This is what I've been saying for years about Canada's nightmarish healthcare system, yet there are these liberal/socialist shills out there, propagandizing how wonderful is Canada's healthcare, when in fact it's a miserable shambles.

When folks in Canada need quality healthcare and fast, they come to the USA.

Same crapola over in Europe... Those socialists have been arrogantly crowing about their healthcare (relative to the USA) — but then cracks started appearing in the facade, the TRUTH started leaking out (through that goddamned Internet!), and the next thing you know, European nations are angrily defending the quality of their respective healthcare systems...

Damned that Internet!

QUESTION: How can we blanket the world in peace and unity and prosperity and universal health care when THE PEOPLE are allowed to TALK FREELY on that damned Internet?

ANSWER: You can't. The Truth is not compatible with Global Union.


— Doc Velocity



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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Dismantle NHS??? Not on my watch, hopefully this will never happen because although our politicians are d*&ks they are in no way as corrupt as the US counterparts, if the worst came to the worst I'd rather take an additional tax hit than have the NHS dismantled... Take it out of the hands of the government.. OK, dismantle it??? Stupid, selfish and foolish



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Please point out your country on this list?
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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Daniel Hannan, the British Conservative MEP whose comments on Fox News seem to have caused controversy, has not only been slapped down by the Leader of the Opposition but he's also "clarified" his comments in the following terms :-


Nor do I believe - as Peter Mandelson seems fatuously to be claiming - that Britain should adopt a US-style insurance-based system. While in the States last week, I repeatedly emphasised that I thought their set-up could be improved, that costs were too high, that litigation drove up premiums and that powers could be shifted from big insurance companies to individuals. There is a difference between saying that the US shouldn’t adopt the British model and saying that Britain should adopt the American model. Think about it for a few seconds and you’ll see that it’s quite an obvious difference.



If you want to go in for shorthand categorisation by country, the model I’ve been pushing for is one of personal healthcare accounts, a system most closely approximated in Singapore, whose people enjoy a higher level of healthcare than Britons do while paying considerably less for it. Nor can it be repeated often enough that Singapore - like every developed country - pays for the healthcare of those citizens who can’t afford it. No one I know wants a system where the poor go untended.


Daily Telegraph

So not only is Hannan criticising the NHS, he's equally as excoriating when it comes to the American system too. So to quote Hannan & the furore he's generated strikes me as being a little self defeating.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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Yes, the Canadians are now toying with the notion of adding a private insurance option to bolster up their limping NHS. Shhhh.... Don't tell Obama or the mainstream media.

Should it really be a surprise to anyone. The day our US govt can a run a program efficiently and for the betterment of society is the day hell will truly freeze over.

The word is out and Obama is backpedaling to keep pace with the Canadians.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by spitefulgod
 


That list is from 2000. The WHO doesn't even do that study anymore, it was found meaningless and not cost effective, as was pointed out in another of the many health care threads.


[edit on 17-8-2009 by hotrodturbo7]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:33 AM
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I read the whole story and I wouldn't get on my high horse so fast. There is nothing here that says our system is better and in fact since my own health insurance is going up 40% on the 28th of next month, I think we have the bigger problem. If you read it this is about not having electronic medical records which we don't have here, it is about the way they fund their system and we have that same issue here, but there is not one thing that says our system is the best. What you are seeing around the world is a fusion of both public and private and we need the public part of the equation in this country.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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Silly Yankees


Double standard anyone? You all realize that there is more than one political group in Canada, right? Just because we're a left leaning socialist nation doesn't mean that everyone is in constant agreement.

By your, clearly right-wing logic, any individual left-wing personality that speaks their mind is correct and you are wrong.

As hard as it is to believe, there are neocons in Canada. Ontario has had a neo-conservative right wing povincial government for years; don't make me give specific policy examples, I will ad nausium.

This person is in the extreme minority. I have two "serious" medical conditions and I'd probably be a homeless bum for not our health care system. Those comments, to an educated Canadian, are foolish at best, give me a break.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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Australia's health care system is imploding to.

www.livenews.com.au...

Its looking like in a few years the US may be the only country with national health care.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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Sooner or later all of these national systems will bottle neck. Even dedicating 100% of the GDP to nothing but healthcare will soon enough be inadequate to fund the system at quality levels.

It's impossible to sustain national anything for the long run. You can get about 50 good years tops before crazy things have to be done like refusing care to the elderly or the disabled and still the quality of care for everyone will have to decrease.

It's just another bubble created by government interference. Mandate things be a certain way against the natural state and eventually you'll have to pay up to the natural state a cost that is much higher than you would have been paying all along.

They did it with the manufactured "dot com" boom, they did it with the policies pushing homeownership for people who couldnt afford to own them, they did it way back when the stock market was growing (artificially) faster than interest rates so people could borrow from their bank at high interest and pay them back and still profit until of course it didnt work anymore and the notes came due.

People complain and moan about the defecit and passing the debt onto their grandkids and all but nobody thinks it's wrong to create an NHS that is going to be bankrupt and defunct in half a century? It's okay to blow out more money nobody has to provide basic care for 18% of the population even if it means that in two generations that system wont be able to care for the 100% it will have to (given that taxation, grandfather barriers and corporate cost cutting will eliminate private insurance for all but the super-wealthy)?

Nobody wants to strip the rain forests to build homes for everyone so why do so many want to set up their grandkids into share-cropping servitude for so few (18%) right now?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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Star and flag, what a great find.

Didn't I read here somewhere that the British NHS is the third largest employer or the third largest "business" in the world. If so US NHS would have to be gigantic. After all you would need one bureaucrat for each doctor. Dang thats Obama's answer to unemployment!



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Same crapola over in Europe... Those socialists have been arrogantly crowing about their healthcare


1. By calling "Europeans" "Socialists" you "North American", shows a lot of ignorance to basic political and ideological descriptions and functions of societies. Just because the wider political description of the EU includes the word "social" in "Social democratic capitalism" doesn't mean it is any closer to Socialism that your Fascism/corporatism based system is. Ever been outside of the US? Doesn't look like it from that statement tbh.

Btw.. here in "Europe", I don't have a nationalized healthcare system in my "State". I have to get on a plane and fly to a different "Europe" to get free healthcare. Similar to the majority of "Europeans".

2. Calling us "Socialists" in that derogatory & insulting manner while still trying your best to let your American superiority complex to protrude shows quite a lot about your mindset and attitude while you try your best to cling to a system that has collapsed but which has bombarded you with so much lies that you are unable to discern whether or not you are at the mercy of excessive capitalism, greed or simply massive massive theft at the hands of an oligarchy..

3. Picking out small problems with a different system in another country and amplifying it to the point where it is inaudible above your own political bias only takes from your own credibility. The countries in question would never give up their healthcare systems - The people want them therefore the people have them.. Its the democratic way isn't it? Aaaammmm.. Yea.

4. Everything needs an overhaul at some stage, take a look at your entire economy and the 'too big to fail' ideology (corporatism, fascism) that has emerged (my "country" is similar btw) .. Me thinks you need to look at your patch before insulting everyone else's.

Fair enough, if healthcare is not to be "socialized", then don't charge $100k to set and pin a broken leg.. because thats exactly where the US problem has arisen.

And this idea that free healthcare is bad healthcare and US healthcare is tops is absolute rubbish, its a well known fact that the US healthcare system is one of the worst in the developed world so there's no point in defending it so adamantly... There are such things as private clinics and hospitals in almost every country in the world.




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II
 

Of course, Obama doesn't mention that the USPS has been cutting back on personnel, and is seriously planning for a 20% cutback of its basic
mission, mail delivery.

This is no longer about "reform," if it ever was. It is purely Federal government expansion and control.

Energy and education are also on his agenda of "reform" (into his own vision of centraslization of power over citizens' lives at their expense).

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Dermo
And this idea that free healthcare is bad healthcare and US healthcare is tops is absolute rubbish, its a well known fact that the US healthcare system is one of the worst in the developed world so there's no point in defending it so adamantly... There are such things as private clinics and hospitals in almost every country in the world.


Use smaller words for the Yankees, I fear your message is lost.

I'm sorry.. actually no, I'm not. I'm so tired of these ignorant morons judging the rest of the world when they come across as having the education of an elementary school drop out.

These idiot Americans talk about socialist policies as if they're literally equated to Hitler and Stalin and I'm tired of being patient with their ignorance. They don't seem to get that when they call their "fellow Americans" socialists, or compare them to such personalities for wanting a public health care system, that there are countries all around the world that are very happy with these policies that take offense.

Our system is certainly not imploding and if there was even a chance of losing our "socialized" system, the current government would be begging for votes on the street as a new one quickly took it place. Canada is a social democracy and proud of it. [snip] if you can't see beyond your republican talking points long enough to read a book.

 


Censor circumvention removed

[edit on 17/8/09 by masqua]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by spitefulgod
 


This list is a fraud, based on flawed criteria and biased assessments.

Note that many British citizens, Europeans and Americans are travelling to some of the "top tier" providers. They are returning with MRSA and other virulent infections that are resistant to conventional, or any, treatment.

Next time you're sick, go to any of the "top twenty" and see what you get.

I dare you.

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by spitefulgod
Dismantle NHS??? Not on my watch, hopefully this will never happen


You live in England. You have no say in what the MPs and MEPs do anymore.

Their spy program is ramping up as we speak. You won't be complaining, or be able to, much longer.

jw



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Don't forget the $7 billion dollar loss they're gonna have this year also.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Ulala
Daniel Hannan, the British Conservative MEP whose comments on Fox News seem to have caused controversy, has not only been slapped down by the Leader of the Opposition but he's also "clarified" his comments in the following terms :-


I repeatedly emphasised that I thought their set-up could be improved, that costs were too high, that litigation drove up premiums and that powers could be shifted from big insurance companies to individuals.


So not only is Hannan criticising the NHS, he's equally as excoriating when it comes to the American system too. So to quote Hannan & the furore he's generated strikes me as being a little self defeating.


I am no advocate for the status quo. Far from it.

I've long believed that if people paid for and selected their preventive and basic health care with tax-free dollars, we'd have a competitive, reasonably priced system with a more healthy populace.

There's a place for risk-shifting (insurance), but it should be according to risk, and not from the few to the many.

Let carriers and the government insure skydivers, smokers and the obese, et al, at a cost relative to the risk. Let employees, employers and the gov't. insure against catastrophic loss and disease, spreading the costs across the board.

Very simple. Not pro-insurance.

jw




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