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Heaven/Hell

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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I'm really, not quite sure how to put this, but it's an honest and fair question I suppose.

Alot of people, I'd say the large majority, believe in heaven, and a slightly minutely less believe in a hell.

Now for like a week now, i've had tons of dreams where I go to hell. There probably the most terrifying dreams, i've ever had.

I'd like to ask a question posed to me by my fourth grade teacher (yeah appropriate huh).

Are we the same now as we are in a heaven or hell. I've heard some people say, that we all are 30 years old when we reach heaven...... how they conjured this up, I have no idea.

If we are spirits, then do we really feel the fire in hell? Seems a bit odd.

Simply I guess, when we go to heaven or hell. What are we like, and is there anything in the bible, quran, or something discussing this?

I know the 42 virgin thing, but how old would you be, I'm not quite sure how to put it.


(I ask this as an atheist role playing, cause I'd like to know what the thoughts on this really are?)

I suppose, if you wanted to go with the way that ghosts are real, and we see them at their age of death, and that's what it's like, well then what about amputees?

Or well I could go on, but you get it.

If anyone can, grasp what I apparently can't put, lol, I'd like to know the answer.

Mainly for religious people. Or agnostics I guess.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Republican08]




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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Nice to see you put up a thread that is respectful and void of your usual barbs, star just for that.

To answer your question as best as I can.

It only makes sense that if you are in heaven and feel love and joy then if you are in hell you feel anguish and pain.

Now if the pain is physical or mental depends on what you think hell is. Personally if hell is real then I have to side with Pope John Paul II. He believed hell was a place void of God and not a place of physical pain.

Imagine the mental pain if you found yourself in a place void of all love and joy. You couldn't have any memories of loved ones or happy times. You knew you had them, but they were all taken away from you. You knew God put you into this place and the only feelings you could have is one of vengence and hate.

To me the thought of only feeling hate for eternity is hell.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 





Imagine the mental pain if you found yourself in a place void of all love and joy. You couldn't have any memories of loved ones or happy times. You knew you had them, but they were all taken away from you. You knew God put you into this place and the only feelings you could have is one of vengence and hate.



This reminds me of a movie I saw, quite a time ago.


This girl goes to like a hell like place, and her (husband/boyfriend) tries to get her back out of there, but she doesn't know who she is, and it's all black and white...

Do you know this movie...?



Nice to see you put up a thread that is respectful and void of your usual barbs, star just for that.


I'm trying my best



[edit on 17-8-2009 by Republican08]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Republican08
 



Albert - "It's not all fire and pain. The real hell is your life gone wrong."



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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I have to check in on this one. As I have said before, I have been seeing the dead for most of my life. Some of them I can, and do talk to. As you may guess, these questions have come up in these talks, and not one ever told me he/she was in the Christian version of Heaven or Hell.
There is an afterlife. I am told, and I believe it, that in the afterlife whatever one thinks is. You create your own environment, and yes, it can be heavenly or hellish, I guess depending on your beliefs. I would say if a person thought he belonged in hell, he would be in hell. You can believe this or not, but this is how I see it.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Going along here, since I tend to think that there is no afterlife, but like the questions of it.

What did the did describe it as, lol, could they live earth, where their physics the same as ours.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


No clue.

You have to remember that Hell wasn't intended for us. It was intended to be a place for lucifer and the other fallen angels. When man was introduced to sin it then became necessary for man also.

The whole story about hell being a lake of fire, in my opinion, was intended to be a story to scare people into repenting for their sins. If you think about it, it is hard to imagine and be scared of a place filled with nothing but hate and darkeness because we can't relate to it. Now we have all felt the pain of being burned and any sane person would be scared to be in a place for all of eternity where all you do is burn and burn and burn without relief.

So hell may in fact be real, but a scarier version of it may have been needed because people weren't taking it seriously.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Actually this is the full quote:

Albert:Each of us has an instinct that there is a natural order to our journey. And Annie's violated that. She won't face it. She won't realize, accept, what she's done. And she will spend eternity playing that out.
Chris: You're still saying she's in Hell...
Albert: Everyone's Hell is different. It's not all fire and pain. The real Hell is your life gone wrong.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


Autowrench:
My most recent visit was from my Grandfather, who died in 1964 when I was 7. He was driving his 1951 Ford car, and told me he was with his friends and family, they were all there, and I have to tell you, these were not the kind that would go to the Christian Heaven...my Grandfather personally killed at least 4 men that I know of, and one woman.

Another time I had a nice visit from an old friend I used to party with and smoked a lot of pot with. He told me that he could hardly wait for me to get there, he said we would party hardy, his favourite words.

I believe that whatever you want to do there you can do. I have learned one thing though, and this will be controversial as all hell, but the "Light" people are always talking about, and is hyped on TV shows like "Ghost Whisperer" is a trap back into the cycle. There is a "soul collector" of some kind that collects soul material and recycles it back into the third dimensional prison we all live in right now.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:06 AM
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The movie you're thinking of above is 'What Dreams May Come' I believe.

www.imdb.com...

Amazing movie.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:06 AM
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I don't know if this is true or a prank but this video proclaims to recorded sounds from hell.




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by cloakndagger
 


I've seen that for awhile, but I would be surprised if hell was in the middle of the earth... very surprised.

Lol, although would explain the growing earth theory!


Sik Mike: Thanks, it was killing me to know, I got to go rent that again. It was pretty cool.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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For starters, the whole Heaven and Hell concept is only that, a Concept. One that has been used to control the masses for the longest time. And it is one that is steadily decaying, ever so slowly, as new information comes to light. Unfortunately most people are so heavily indoctrinated in their Beliefs that they cannot and will not consider any other option.

Hell is not real, it is a scare-tactic to force people to remain blinded and living in Faith of a powerful and traditonal Belief-System.

From my experience journeying in other realms and from assisting with the dead to reach the Light, I can tell you this. What is called Heaven exists, but not as we would believe it to be. It is the highest layer or level of the Astral Realms where all "deadies" eventually go. It is heavenly there, everything has a constant harmonous vibration to it. One reaches this level of awareness, Monroe's Focus 27, easily and can know for yourself how real it is.

All deadies, as I call them, choose how they appear to us. Many will choose to be seen as they were in the prime of their life here while others are happy enough to show me how they were just prior to their physical-only deaths.

So, there is no age there, only what aspect of the self you put forward to others.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:15 AM
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when we go to heaven or hell. What are we like


My understanding of the dogma is that one is supposed to go to heaven or hell after death, yes? So presumably we won't be taking our bodies with us, right? So, what experiences do we have to draw from, what states of consciousness do we know of where the physical body isn't involved? Dreams come to mind. Perhaps drug-induced hallucinations as well.



some people say, that we all are 30 years old when we reach heaven


Personally, in my dreams I'm not "always 30 years old." Nor am I always male. Or human. If "state of self" is so flexible in a mere dream state, wouldn't it be reasonable to guess that heaven or hell would be similarly flexible? If you have no physical body, why wouldn't it be?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by Tayesin
 


So an aborted baby, would be able to portray a form of what it would've been like if it lived.

Honestly, I have like this intense fear of babies, they creep me out honestly, I would be scared literally to death, if I saw a baby ghost, that'd be it, i'd be gone.

Do animals go to this, place, or is it strictly homosapiens?

Would it of included Lucy? (evolutionary down the scale of humans?)



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


I remember the first dream I had were I was a chick, and when I was black in a dream.

Probably the oddest dreams i've ever had, not scary just odd. Only had one of each though...

Still a constant age in em.

I thought that the bible stated, that men died but were "asleep" in their graves I suppose, until he called them up, and the end times...

I don't think heaven or hell is dogmatic, it's attackable to an extent and changed from who guys and who doesn't like the pope decided people who commit suicide go to hell, just to stop the recent outbreak of suicides in the catholic church. It was a failed attempt.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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The supposed recording of the people in hell is a fake. It's basically a recording of a crowd of people - perhaps at a party - that has been played with, repeated and overdubbed and otherwise made to sound sinister.

The entire concept of heaven and hell is, in my opinion, the ultimate "argument by club" - trying to persuade people by frightening them into accepting what you claim. You better believe what I tell you, or God will burn you forever and ever with no possibility of relief ever. What a horrible thing for a loving God to do...

You really don't have to go anywhere to experience heaven or hell. You can find either or both, right here on earth. Of course, here neither one lasts forever.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by chiron613

The entire concept of heaven and hell is, in my opinion, the ultimate "argument by club" - trying to persuade people by frightening them into accepting what you claim. You better believe what I tell you, or God will burn you forever and ever with no possibility of relief ever. What a horrible thing for a loving God to do...

You really don't have to go anywhere to experience heaven or hell. You can find either or both, right here on earth. Of course, here neither one lasts forever.


I tend to believe this of it personally.

Although I'm curious of if it is real what it would be like.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by chiron613
 


You are right. What kind of God would torment us with eternal fire?

Read my first post and google what Pope John Paul II had to say on the subject.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 01:33 AM
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jd140
It only makes sense that if you are in heaven and feel love and
joy then if you are in hell you feel anguish and pain.


To me this sort of assumption seems a gross simplification. Consider the human condition even here on earth. There are people who enjoy scary movies. And roller coasters. And Hamlet. These are not things that evoke feelings of "joy" or "happy," but it's still possible to appreciate them. Is shakespearian tragedy forbidden in heaven?

I can only assume that once no longer confined to a physical body and given eternity to work with...the human capacity for "appreciating" states other than "joy and happy" would grow. If one is only permitted to experience these two narrow states emotions in heaven...then heaven seems a terribly small minded and limiting place.

Right now there are people jumping out of airplanes for the thrill it gives them. Diving with sharks. Watching soap operas. If even within the limited span of single human lifetime, people are able to appreciate the emotions conjured up by these sorts of activities...how could an eternity of only "joy and happy" possibly qualify as "heaven?"

If you are truly a spirit with all of eternity to work with...is it possible you might want to experience things like misery, pain and death...experience being ripped to pieces, eaten alive, raped, murdered, incinerated, etc., for the "variety," for the "thrill," just like some people here on earth can enjoy the variety of emotions they do?




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