Originally posted by conar

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
Exhaust gas temperature at full throttle: 1760+ deg F (960+ deg C)
Oil Temperature: 347 deg F (175 deg C)
The actual flame temperature within the combustor: 2500+ deg F

Now none of us can actually say what happened at the point of impact but with these kind of temperatures I think it is safe to say that it is melting structural steel is possible?!?

Cheers Yankee, that's what i assumed.

Are you telling me the engines survived the impact so they could heat the entire 500 million tonnes building for 2 hours, which led to the collapse?

Remember the whole 500 million tonnes steel building would have to get weakened for the collapse to fall at that speed.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by conar]

I don't want to speak for Conar, but what i'm suggesting isn't that the engines stayed intact and brought down the building.

I'm just suggesting that the at one point the high winds made the fire in one particular corner of the tower hot enough to melt some of the metal in that location, which we saw poor down the exterior of that corner.

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by conar

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
Exhaust gas temperature at full throttle: 1760+ deg F (960+ deg C)
Oil Temperature: 347 deg F (175 deg C)
The actual flame temperature within the combustor: 2500+ deg F

Now none of us can actually say what happened at the point of impact but with these kind of temperatures I think it is safe to say that it is melting structural steel is possible?!?

Cheers Yankee, that's what i assumed.

Are you telling me the engines survived the impact so they could heat the entire 500 million tonnes building for 2 hours, which led to the collapse?

Remember the whole 500 million tonnes steel building would have to get weakened for the collapse to fall at that speed.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by conar]

I don't want to speak for Conar, but what i'm suggesting isn't that the engines stayed intact and brought down the building.

I'm just suggesting that the at one point the high winds made the fire in one particular corner of the tower hot enough to melt some of the metal in that location, which we saw poor down the exterior of that corner.

You obviously don't work with metals. There is no way that a regular fire with "jet Fuel" as an accelerant would burn hot enough to melt tempered steel. We have to use "Rosebud" torches, Oxy/Acetylene, to heat up steel when we weld it so that the weld will "normalize" and the steel won't fracture at the weld.

There is absolutely NO WAY wind blowing on the paper and carpet and furniture fire would EVER get that hot to melt steel into molten liquid. That is just an insane statement.

Well folks, it has been decided.... Some other pics that have not been in the public domain at all (or seen by only a hundred people or two) are getting ready to be uploaded, and these are more interesting, imo. They are from a first responder at ground zero, unrelated to these pics. Stay tuned...One thread coming up, and it will not be from me. But it will be ATS exclusive pretty much, if the person I talked to follows through- which I am sure he will.

I actually do work with metals! What I didn't say was that wind and office supplies made it hot enough to melt the metal. All I was giving were some facts from my knowledge of those jet engines that are on a Boeing 767. During engine operation there is a lot of fuel within the engines themselves, going through tubes and operating valves etc. When those engines made impact, all that fuel would have made contact with the already HOT metals of the engine.

Like I said, none of us, NO ONE, knows exactly what happened at the point of impact, all I was saying was that the pressurized fuel and the temperatures involved COULD have made it very hot, very quickly.

I have a degree in Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineering so I am very much aware of welding procedures. We just do not know exactly what happened, if the fuel came spilling out like a flood or if it was spraying out because it runs at a very high pressure, and I think we all know that pressurized fuel burns much hotter. I just wanted to clear up some questions that were being asked/discussed.

YankeeDefender

I also don't think the OP intended this thread to turn into ANOTHER 9/11 conspiracy thread that really eventually gets no where!

[edit on 17-8-2009 by YankeeDefender]

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
I actually do work with metals! What I didn't say was that wind and office supplies made it hot enough to melt the metal. All I was giving were some facts from my knowledge of those jet engines that are on a Boeing 767. During engine operation there is a lot of fuel within the engines themselves, going through tubes and operating valves etc. When those engines made impact, all that fuel would have made contact with the already HOT metals of the engine.

Like I said, none of us, NO ONE, knows exactly what happened at the point of impact, all I was saying was that the pressurized fuel and the temperatures involved COULD have made it very hot, very quickly.

I have a degree in Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineering so I am very much aware of welding procedures. We just do not know exactly what happened, if the fuel came spilling out like a flood or if it was spraying out because it runs at a very high pressure, and I think we all know that pressurized fuel burns much hotter. I just wanted to clear up some questions that were being asked/discussed.

YankeeDefender

I also don't think the OP intended this thread to turn into ANOTHER 9/11 conspiracy thread that really eventually gets no where!

[edit on 17-8-2009 by YankeeDefender]

In FULL respect for decorum:

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE ANGLED/CLEAN CUTS?

I see no way of getting these at the moment, conventional download goes at 5kbs and bittorrent at 3 or less

[edit on 17-8-2009 by AR154]

I'm not trying to explain the angled cuts. Someone mentioned pools of molten metal, someone mentioned the picture with the piece of engine was too small to be from a Boeing 767, I was just confirming that was an actual module from the engine used in the 767. I also was just answering some questions that were asked about the engines.

It does seem that no one really knows if those "cuts" were made before or after so I really don't think we will get anything that we could all jump on as the TRUE reason for those "cuts".

YankeeDefender

Do you guys know how to have a good time or what?

Why is there a message written in glowing yellow letters at the bottom of this webpage about this site being monitored due to the request by members??

Sh*t starters!

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
Someone mentioned pools of molten metal

Molten Steel. The someone who mentioned it first in any official capacity was Mark Loizeaux, and was confirmed by both FEMA and CDI. I'm not an expert, but keeping steel molten for months underground is quite a feat, probably explains the elevated tritium levels found later as the exit signs they attributed to this were supposedly removed long before 9-11.
(Frustrated Sigh)
I don't want to derail the thread, this is about this incredible collection of photos, I hope SO can get these up for all of us here to have a gander at. My thanks to the OP, and if he's out there reading this, the photographer.
Pro Bono Veritas.

Wow, there are some very uninformed people in this forum. A simple google and some good old fashioned research will answer most of your questions.

1. First of all, the wall sections left standing after the towers came down HAD TO BE REMOVED before anyone, other than cadaver teams and rescue teams, were allowed on site. The heavy equipment shown in the photo with the alleged thermite cuts on the heavy steel pilings were taken AFTER the standing sections of wall were removed. It is typical in any demo project with large steel sections, to sever the steel with an oxy-acetylene torch, a $400 torch can sever 6 inches of steel like butter, and that is what left the slag (molten metal slag) behind on the remaining pieces of steel that someone has so eagerly placed arrows around. Use common sense, any explosive uses it's physical traits to do the damage, in the case of explosive materials that physical trait is the expansion of hot gases anywhere from 2000-9000 feet per second, that is how they get charges to slice through anything. At those speeds, the steel is superheated in a matter of microseconds, the gas continues to expand, along with molten steel which adds to the destructive power of the blast, this molten steel is a spray, and moving way to fast to cause drips off the edge of the steel, as shown in the pictures, but a torch will leave a mark just like that!

2. Second, the section of engine you folks have claimed is too small to be an engine from one of the planes is only a small combustion section of the internal portion of the motor.

I think it is absolutely crazy that soooooo many of you think that 9/11 was some sort of conspiracy, the terrorists admit to doing it and we were caught with our pants down, we got OWNED! That is it! No X-Files conspiracy, just life in the real World.

Originally posted by Roadblockx


Do you guys know how to have a good time or what?

Why is there a message written in glowing yellow letters at the bottom of this webpage about this site being monitored due to the request by members??

Sh*t starters!

It's on every 911 thread I believe.
I think it's because things get a little.... erm, 'heated'.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I cropped and resized this one, again to fit. Notice signs:

"No cameras or video equipment permitted!"

"VIOLATORS will be prosecuted and equipment seized!"

Same sign on gate in background. I don't remember there being a sign like this on the Sheraton hotel at the Pentagon- but that didn't stop the FBI from taking those videos.

Well, seeing as there was not supposed to be any equipment there, obviously there were going to be things they did not want the public to see. Which we are seeing some of now, thanks to Kurt Sonnenfeld. Hats off to Kurt. Thanks.

Not permitting Videos and Photographs of a National Security related scene is quite common in nature. As a matter of fact, as of now, you are not even allowed to take photographs or videos anywhere on DOD installations, or within DOD facilities.