The theory of time travel

I have seen many documentaries on the possibilities of time travel, but the flaw these intelligent people miss, and it's sad they do because it's right there in their face, yet they don't see it. Einstein say's the faster an object moves through space compared to another, some how the object has traveled into the future because it's moving faster. It's hillarious, gosh I love racecar races! When you have a Nascar or Formula 1 race, I won because my car GOT TO A SPECIFIC POINT FASTER THAN YOUR'S DID BECAUSE UUUUH MY CAR IS FASTER THAN YOUR'S . When I get out of my racecar to accept the trophy, ain't a Goddarn thing has changed. Doesn't matter the speed, twisting the fabric of space and time which is uuuuh a made up object in the first place, so there is nothing to twist when it comes to time, why would time travel 100's of years into the future, lets say if I decided to travel to proxima centauri at the speed of light effect your actions on earth? It's an instant in time effecting nothing but speed. Oh, how can you travel into the future if the future hasen't happened yet? LOL, it's great because they all start running around for the answer, like parallel universes, or we live in someone's past. HAHAHA, when you take the challenge away from them they go into denial mode! That in itself is worth of study, because why are they resisting common sense and facts. It's hillarious!

I was sitting out in my yard watching people walk past...I'm in unincorporated Cook County, Illinois, United States. The young kids dress like its the 70s. If it weren't for the late model cars, I swear it's the 70s in this place. Everything about this place is like 35 years ago to me. The hair, the clothes, the style, etc. I don't have any contact with them, so I haven't been able to confirm, but I think they are in the past or is it that I am in the future.

Screw what the calender says...when are these people, seriously? Sometimes, I see people. I don't talk to them or interact in anyway, but everything about them is out of sync with my understanding of when this is.

Is it possible that I've traveled into the future and just don't know it and that they are trapped in the past? and what we don't know for a fact is where all the secrets are hidden.

Seriously take how much you really know and compare it to what you don't know...it not a contest...what we don't know is immense and we fill in the empty spaces with a bunch of assumptions that may not be right.

I think we all may be missing the lesson from discussions concerning time travel.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by IDK88]

Race cars dont go anywhere near the speed of light though.

I'm sorry to say this but you're trying to argue your point against time travel but apparently don't have the foggiest notion of what Einstein, Lorentz and others have determined regarding the relatavistic effects that kick in when an object reaches significant speeds comparable to light speed.

If you did have at least some basic knowledge of these effects, you would have known why your Nascar example was flawed as a denunciation of time dilation as a result of velocity.

Instead of relying on "common sense" as you put it, try doing a bit of basis research on what actually DOES happen under extreme velocities and how it affects the flow of time.

Originally posted by tauristercus
I'm sorry to say this but you're trying to argue your point against time travel but apparently don't have the foggiest notion of what Einstein, Lorentz and others have determined regarding the relatavistic effects that kick in when an object reaches significant speeds comparable to light speed.

If you did have at least some basic knowledge of these effects, you would have known why your Nascar example was flawed as a denunciation of time dilation as a result of velocity.

Instead of relying on "common sense" as you put it, try doing a bit of basis research on what actually DOES happen under extreme velocities and how it affects the flow of time.

People can read. But this just shows that people don't understand what they read.

How can speed change time. Speed will only determine how far you will get with that speed within time.

If light travels at 300 000 km a second. That means light will travel from 0 to 300 000 km in 1 second. And to get back it would have to use 1 second.
Because it would have to travel from 300 000 km and back to 0 (start).


If you think that was a hard equation. Try it with to different sources of speeds.

1. That travels with 150 000 km a second.

2. That travels with 300 000 km a second.

See if they don't come back at exactly the same time lol.

And if you like a challenge try it with communication. Where they communicate with each other and Earth.

I bet even then they all would have the same time when they get back home.

reply to post by spy66

How can speed change time. Speed will only determine how far you will get with that speed within time.

If light travels at 300 000 km a second. That means light will travel from 0 to 300 000 km in 1 second. And to get back it would have to use 1 second.
Because it would have to travel from 300 000 km and back to 0 (start).


If you think that was a hard equation. Try it with to different sources of speeds.

1. That travels with 150 000 km a second.

2. That travels with 300 000 km a second.

See if they don't come back at exactly the same time lol.

And if you like a challenge try it with communication. Where they communicate with each other and Earth.

I bet even then they all would have the same time when they get back home.

You're making EXACTLY the same error that the OP made ... when travelling at relatavistic speeds (50% or more of light speed), your personal time begins to slow down considerably compared to that of someone back on Earth.

If you are travelling at almost the speed of light in a space ship, your onboard clock would register a time of only approx. 0.00025 secs to cover that distance BUT a clock on Earth would register 1 second.

And travelling at 150,000 kms/s .... your onboard clock would register approx. 0.8 secs elapsed time.

The reason for the discrepancy is an effect called "Time Dilation" as proposed by Einstein and Lorentz whereby the faster you go (compared to light speed), the slower your personal clock will tick.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by tauristercus]

the most important thing to remember when you talk about time dilation is that you are comparing to seperate systems. i want to call the OP a few choice words and those who say that speed soes not change time are grouped in there but the mods dont like name-calling and i am going to try to explain this the best i can without trying to find an equation editor on here.



ok, lets put on our imagination caps. imagine two space ships side by side at some point. the where is not important, just that they are at the same point. we will call them ship a and ship b. on each ship is a twin, they are going to be our observers.
suddenly ship a takes off and travels at near C for a year in ship a time away from ship b then returns in the same fashion. in two years ship a time the twin from ship a has aged... 2 years! but when observing his twin he sees an old decrepid mummified corpse. why?!

we have to be able to grasp the idea of two seperate systems, and to describe each system as observed from inside and outside. for ship a, as observed from inside the system, there has been no strange events, no strange warping of time, no odd happenings. but when observed from the outside ship b would have seen thier counterparts clock slow to a crawl.

this is not time travel, but instead is called time dilation, and this is why photons are able to travel for billions of years at c, but have no rest mass because they cannot exist at rest!

this is the simple version, and if you have questions let me know

Ok lets do it the hard way.

Ship A:

Ship A travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds.

Ship B:

Ship B travels 150 000 km in 1 seconds.


The timer is on Earth. The rules are that each ship is going to stop at 1 Earth second.
That means that ship (A) must travel for 1 second on his timer. If he knows that he travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds he cant stop. That would be cheating.

Why?

Well he has only traveled for 0.00025 seconds
Do i need to go on?




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66
Ok lets do it the hard way.

Ship A:

Ship A travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds.

Ship B:

Ship B travels at 150 000 km in 1 seconds.


The timer is on Earth. The rules are that each ship is going to stop at 1 Earth second.
That means that ship (A) must travel for 1 second on his timer. If he knows that he travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds he cant stop. That would be cheating.

Why?

Well he has only traveled for 0.00025 seconds

Do i need to go on?
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Errrrr, I'm lost now ... what is it you're trying to say ?

Are you saying that ship A MUST travel for the equivalent of 1 second on the ships clock ?
If so, then ship A will have travelled 1,200,000,000 kms (1.2 billion kms) by the time his ship clock has ticked off 1 second ... but in the meantime, 4000 seconds (66.7 mins) will have gone by on Earth.

Are you still NOT getting this concept of time dilation ?

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by spy66
Ok lets do it the hard way.

Ship A:

Ship A travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds.

Ship B:

Ship B travels at 150 000 km in 1 seconds.


The timer is on Earth. The rules are that each ship is going to stop at 1 Earth second.
That means that ship (A) must travel for 1 second on his timer. If he knows that he travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds he cant stop. That would be cheating.

Why?

Well he has only traveled for 0.00025 seconds

Do i need to go on?
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Errrrr, I'm lost now ... what is it you're trying to say ?

Are you saying that ship A MUST travel for the equivalent of 1 second on the ships clock ?
If so, then ship A will have travelled 1,200,000,000 kms (1.2 billion kms) by the time his ship clock has ticked off 1 second ... but in the meantime, 4000 seconds (66.7 mins) will have gone by on Earth.

Are you still NOT getting this concept of time dilation ?

No.

If the ship stops after 1 earth second. He might be very very far away. But that is the clue with speed. You get very far away fast. But dont confuse the distance with time.

What does 0.00025 seconds mean?

Well it means 0.00025 of 1 second. 1 Earth second.

Right?

No i dont confuse the concept of dilation.

What this means is: If something gets pushed to the speed of light it will get compressed by the engine. It wont expand.

But if something gets pooled to the speed of light it will expand.

But if something travels at the speed of light nothing would happen. You just travel at the speed of light.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by spy66
Ok lets do it the hard way.

Ship A:

Ship A travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds.

Ship B:

Ship B travels at 150 000 km in 1 seconds.


The timer is on Earth. The rules are that each ship is going to stop at 1 Earth second.
That means that ship (A) must travel for 1 second on his timer. If he knows that he travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds he cant stop. That would be cheating.

Why?

Well he has only traveled for 0.00025 seconds

Do i need to go on?
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Errrrr, I'm lost now ... what is it you're trying to say ?

Are you saying that ship A MUST travel for the equivalent of 1 second on the ships clock ?
If so, then ship A will have travelled 1,200,000,000 kms (1.2 billion kms) by the time his ship clock has ticked off 1 second ... but in the meantime, 4000 seconds (66.7 mins) will have gone by on Earth.

Are you still NOT getting this concept of time dilation ?

No.

If the ship stops after 1 earth second. He might be very very far away. But that is the clue with speed. You get very far away fast. But dont confuse the distance with time.

What does 0.00025 seconds mean?

Well it means 0.00025 of 1 second. 1 Earth second.

Right?

Whilst travelling at (almost) the speed of light, 0.00025 seconds is the amount of time that passes onboard the ship FOR EVERY second that passes on Earth ... time SLOWS DOWN CONSIDERABLY for those onboard.

No i dont confuse the concept of dilation.

What this means is: If something gets pushed to the speed of light it will get compressed by the engine. It wont expand.

NO, NO, NO !!!!!

The engine does NOT compress the ship at all ... the apparent length of the ship as MEASURED BY THOSE ON EARTH appears to contract (shrink) ... but those onboard don't notice anything different ... life goes on as normal for them.
Time dilation AND length contraction are BOTH consequences of travelling at relatavistic (near light) speeds.

But if something travels at the speed of light nothing would happen. You just travel at the speed of light.

WRONG !!!

At (almost) light speed, time dilation/contraction plays a HUGE and SIGNIFICANT role.

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by spy66
Ok lets do it the hard way.

Ship A:

Ship A travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds.

Ship B:

Ship B travels at 150 000 km in 1 seconds.


The timer is on Earth. The rules are that each ship is going to stop at 1 Earth second.
That means that ship (A) must travel for 1 second on his timer. If he knows that he travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds he cant stop. That would be cheating.

Why?

Well he has only traveled for 0.00025 seconds

Do i need to go on?
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Errrrr, I'm lost now ... what is it you're trying to say ?

Are you saying that ship A MUST travel for the equivalent of 1 second on the ships clock ?
If so, then ship A will have travelled 1,200,000,000 kms (1.2 billion kms) by the time his ship clock has ticked off 1 second ... but in the meantime, 4000 seconds (66.7 mins) will have gone by on Earth.

Are you still NOT getting this concept of time dilation ?

Let me then ask . Wouldn't the ship be back on earth after 2 seconds if he stopped at 1.2 billion km and returned?

If it takes him 1 earth second to get to 1.2 billion Km. It would take him 1 second to travel 1.2 billion Km in return.

That would = 2 Earth seconds as well.

speed of light does not return time to a bottle , it just changes how you see it .

if there was a magic standard clock , it would be easy to say who has the broken clock , and who's clock has the right time .

however , there is no constant now second , but every thing and every where has a second of a diffrent lenght .

your personal clock has a second of a set lenght.
some one going the speed of light may see your second , and say to them self " wow that sux'r is moving . that ol' boy's clock is doing 500 for each one of mine . "

thats time dilation for you ... go fast and the world that is standing still , fly's by your window...
thats easy enought to see...

( hehehe )

live long at the speed of light .

The most relevant point ever to be made on the subject of time travel, is that all of us do it. Travel through time I mean. Every living thing on Earth. You existed in the past, and are going to exist in the future. The manner of existance is irrelevant. Be it as a conscious human being, or as broken down molecules, feeding another form of life.
The real mind bender is, who says that time progresses at all?
Just because we think we understand it, and perceive it as following a linear path, does not men that time itself follows that pattern.
I have existed in this universe. Even 100 billion years from now, I have still existed. What is the difference between now and then. Nothing. The only difference is our perceived notion of the passage of time.
Perception is the key to understanding the concept of time travel.
A piece of equipment, while it sounds cool, may or may not be relevant at all.
It is speculated that if we existed, truly in a 4th dimension, we would be able to perceive ourselves, from beginning to end. 5th dimension, and we can perceive all of the possible choices we could have made along the way.
Perception, again, is the key.

A piece of equipment must bring us into a 4th or 5th dimensional state to enable us to travel. Doing so however is another story.

Bla bla bla!!!

[edit on 8/16/2009 by reticledc]

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by spy66
Ok lets do it the hard way.

Ship A:

Ship A travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds.

Ship B:

Ship B travels at 150 000 km in 1 seconds.


The timer is on Earth. The rules are that each ship is going to stop at 1 Earth second.
That means that ship (A) must travel for 1 second on his timer. If he knows that he travels 300 000 km in 0.00025 seconds he cant stop. That would be cheating.

Why?

Well he has only traveled for 0.00025 seconds

Do i need to go on?
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Errrrr, I'm lost now ... what is it you're trying to say ?

Are you saying that ship A MUST travel for the equivalent of 1 second on the ships clock ?
If so, then ship A will have travelled 1,200,000,000 kms (1.2 billion kms) by the time his ship clock has ticked off 1 second ... but in the meantime, 4000 seconds (66.7 mins) will have gone by on Earth.

Are you still NOT getting this concept of time dilation ?

No.

If the ship stops after 1 earth second. He might be very very far away. But that is the clue with speed. You get very far away fast. But dont confuse the distance with time.

What does 0.00025 seconds mean?

Well it means 0.00025 of 1 second. 1 Earth second.

Right?

Whilst travelling at (almost) the speed of light, 0.00025 seconds is the amount of time that passes onboard the ship FOR EVERY second that passes on Earth ... time SLOWS DOWN CONSIDERABLY for those onboard.

No i dont confuse the concept of dilation.

What this means is: If something gets pushed to the speed of light it will get compressed by the engine. It wont expand.

NO, NO, NO !!!!!

The engine does NOT compress the ship at all ... the apparent length of the ship as MEASURED BY THOSE ON EARTH appears to contract (shrink) ... but those onboard don't notice anything different ... life goes on as normal for them.
Time dilation AND length contraction are BOTH consequences of travelling at relatavistic (near light) speeds.

But if something travels at the speed of light nothing would happen. You just travel at the speed of light.

WRONG !!!

At (almost) light speed, time dilation/contraction plays a HUGE and SIGNIFICANT role.

Show me how you do the math. Maybe i will understand you concept a lot better.

Originally posted by readerone


live long at the speed of light .

Wrong: Die further apart in distance you mean.

The moral of the story and today's science lesson is, what is time? What are you twisting or dillating to begin with? You have knowing to grasp on to or warp and twist. If someone were to travel in time forward or back, you would have to put everything in the universe in it's place exactly as it was at that time. EXAMPLE, well I have a time machine lets go back in time, but before I do I need to put this star system here, or that galaxy AND EVERYTHING IN IT THERE. Playing god is not possible. It's kicking over the anthill trying your hardest not to hurt anyone, but knowing the ants will rebuild their hill, hopefully better and with more common sense. Or, in plain words, slapping you over the head and saying what's wrong with you.

the math is rough, heres goers my best to describe it without the equation editors. (perhaps a mod could get some put in here?)

if i get this wrong, someone correct me, this is pretty much from memory here...

first understand something called the lorentz factor, which is usesd to describe events and so on from an outside perspective so to speak. it is c divided by the sqrt of c^2 -u^2 with c being speed of light and u is the velocity as measured from safe reference frame where time is measured.

in time dilation it is used to describe the change in the change of time wrt the difference in speeds from the observing object and the meassured object.

when calculating the dilation of time when measuring clock is stationary,

the change in time between the two clocks is equal to the change of time with the observing clock divided by the sqrt of the inverse of difference of speed from the velocity of the object in motion and speed of light squared.

Originally posted by RyanLA123
The moral of the story and today's science lesson is, what is time? What are you twisting or dillating to begin with? You have knowing to grasp on to or warp and twist. If someone were to travel in time forward or back, you would have to put everything in the universe in it's place exactly as it was at that time. EXAMPLE, well I have a time machine lets go back in time, but before I do I need to put this star system here, or that galaxy AND EVERYTHING IN IT THERE. Playing god is not possible. It's kicking over the anthill trying your hardest not to hurt anyone, but knowing the ants will rebuild their hill, hopefully better and with more common sense. Or, in plain words, slapping you over the head and saying what's wrong with you.

you are dilating the difference of time passage for an object at rest relative to an object at near light speed, not the philosophical concept of time itself

well said .

may I suggest time is a yard stick that energy is measured on

a dimension is defined as a thing with at least these three qualitys




the infinite quality are the tiny arrows

the finite is the +2 to +3 value

the base is the non values , the measure , the miles or minutes , degrees or weight , gas , solide or plasma


time is the base for energy/ change and eternity