This Is What A Police Estate Looks Like

reply to post by deadoralive


Welcome to Liverpool!

I've been to London and spent a weekend in Manchester recently, and although crime rates are high, I didn't see ANY of this in either city.

It's a bit ridiculous to see one example of security measures taken by a local authority (and probably at the request of the citizens there) in what is clearly a crime hot spot, and scream Police state.

This is JUST ONE MEASURE taken by an authority to reduce access to areas where crime gathers, IN ONE AREA.

The UK is a lot bigger than Liverpool.

While I accept that both the UK and the US are headed for Fascism, this is witnessed in the arcane laws being introduced, the control of basic services, the increase of taxation to benefit the corporations, the suggestions of ID cards, the meddling in even the most basic aspects of the lives of citizens...
It's not measured in physical barriers put in place (which can easily be torn down given the right tools and the right public climate).

My view, this is exaggeration, a generalisation based on one practical measure.
We are headed for Fascism, I admit, but this is nothing.

I have been a regular reader of ATS for a long time but i just had to join and post after reading this thread. I am from Liverpool and have lived in Liverpool for the past 36 years. So i think i have a healthy understanding of the city and its strong/weak points.

So to deal with the security gates issue or the ' police estate ' as the OP called it

A LOT of areas in Liverpool that have terraced housing have these gates. Some are poor areas some arent. The gates although not looking to nice do provide a number of advantages for the local residents. Only allowing residents access to the alleyways at the back of their properties which can stop flytippers, kids, thieves, dogs. Each one of those can be broken into numerous reasons for the gates and none have to do with a ' police estate '.

With regards Liverpool in general the city has/is going through massive changes. And i am the first to admit some areas of the city are suffering whilst others are booming. Anyone of us could go to a city and look for a ' police estate ' or something equally as negative. But why not balance it up with some pictures that show the positives of Liverpool? And if you dont think there are any please feel free to contact me on your next visit and i will be only to proud to show you just what a magnificent city i live in.




[edit on 16-8-2009 by LonReed]

reply to post by badgerprints


LOL! Thank you for your first line on the "Police Estate". I did want to say anything, however, I thought the same.

This is a very serious post and I do not mean to belittle the subject or author, however, the author really should edit the title.

Yes, England (I know longer use "Great Britain") is in a Police State, and we (US) are right behind them. Just check the "Taser Incidents by Police" on youtube. Not to mention all the Orwellian laws that have passed by the Criminals in Washington in past few years.

And Americans are worried about who is on "American Idle"! Sad but true..

Excellent Post, thanks...

their are good things & bad things going on in the uk at present, its dificult to speak of the bad things in reality as doing so will mean being labeled by the political correct brigade making accusations of fascist/racist/xeophobe/islamophobe.
but lets just say our police most favoured exorcise is to kettle large crowds, gated estates like this are almost perfect for this (just add some razor wire on top of the gates) & you have a prison.
tabboo subjects that the uk government still refuses to speak of is
mass immigration
islamic appeasement
failed multiculturism experiment
leaving the eu
untill recently this has been an uncomfortable & unwanted experiment.
& when uk troops returned from afganistan to be shouted at by islamic extremists calling uk soldiers on their own streets (child murderers) & the like, this truely upset a lot of people wich has now grown into an anti (islamic extremism) movement, last week this movement was attacked by uaf & islamic extremists in birmingham, the bristish defence league (casuals united have many more marches now planed, these marches are uk wide & in many cases could very easy become riots.
manchester/birmingham/luton/london marches in poor areas with high populations of islamic extremist sympathizers.
these gated estates may go iether way if serious civil unrest keep growing, gated estates may end up as nothing more than protection against what they are supposed to be for.
but they can also end up being used block prisons in times of martial law !.
but hey untill our failed multiculturism experiment seriously blows up into some thing realy nasty,
us brits would like to welcome you to the worlds most watched prison oops i mean nation cctv every where you look/police state/caged in estates/& a tour of our military parade & a chance to buy your very own replica plastic police helmit
WELCOME TO PRISON UK.
ohh yes & the good points......................erm.......................erm.......................it doesnt rain all the time.......just quite a lot
the people are nice..............well they dont mug you all the time.
we love a good drink.......& street fight...............ending in arrest
it cant be this bad................................can it

Load of BS and only barely related to Liverpool. The gates have nothing to do with the police. Liverpool isn't a 'police estate.' In terms of crime reputation...more crap. For at least the past few years, the place hasn't been in the top ten of any national crime statistics...worst or best. Burglary, car theft, vandalism etc. have worse areas elsewhere.

Like a few posters have pointed out, alley-gating is present in a lot of towns and cities. The images just give a limited view of Liverpool that's purely negative. It's my favorite UK city, I used to live there and visit at least monthly to see friends and family.

Here's a couple of contrasting images for balance...

Liverpool waterfront

Sefton Park

Pictures of Liverpool Streets

reply to post by Kandinsky

Barely related to Liverpool??? Did you not read my OP I said these were in most cities not just in Liverpool, there's cities all over the UK with these gates. I think Liverpool has a stunning city centre and probably some of the most phenomenal architecture I've ever seen in my life, some really nice places and some not so nice, same as any other city, My OP was not disputing that.

It was my last visit seeing all them gates left right and centre, that is what left a negative impression, I have seen plenty of these before in other cities, but not to that extent. I'm sure there are other places with even more? I mean England not the West Bank. These gated areas may not be 'police estates' as I put it, but you can't tell me they don't look like police estates. Is our society really that untrustworthy that we need to install them in the first place? I think the gates speak for themselves.

What next?

Electronic roadblocks?

Oops already got them, and with cameras. Watch them spread to more and more "problem areas" like the gates did.
LINK

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


But wait! There's more!

Why stop there when you can get this nifty security camera to spy on your neighbors! We'll also throw in a sound magnifier! Talk about family fun spying on the neighbors!

/Billy Mays (RIP)

reply to post by deadoralive
I'm not getting drawn into some subjective NWO argument. I was pointing out that your OP is focused on an unnamed area of Liverpool. Anyone with preconceived ideas of the place are unlikely to be dissuaded of them.

I usually keep the NWO boards at arm's length, it's not my taste. The only reason I've posted here is to offer some balance in the portrayal of a city I know well. If it makes anyone feel better...call me a sheeple or something

reply to post by LonReed


Welcome to ATS

My OP was not intended to portray any negative feelings towards Liverpool by any means. I know what a great city Liverpool is. I could go on about the good points forever and could probably only go on on about the bad stuff for only a few weeks or so. (joking) Like I keep saying, theses gates can be found most places. I think they are just a lazy solution to an even bigger problem and the money invested in them should have gone on other things, like educational programmes, local youth clubs, local activity centres and stuff like that, just things where you don't need to travel too far or loads of money to do stuff, basically for the less well-off teenagers to have something to do, so they don't have to walk around the streets bored out of their minds. There's only so many trips to the park you can take before it wears thin. I think the Victorians that built those houses and parks had the right idea at the time, but times have changed and we should take a new approach towards modern day society instead of barricading walkways. It's a sad thing to even have to do that.

I think today it goes something like this.

A thousand people turn up to a party, every body has a excellent time, except one, he had his wallet stolen

The solution.

No party and nobody looses their wallet

Is everybody happy now

Originally posted by octaviameister
reply to post by badgerprints

 

LOL! Thank you for your first line on the "Police Estate". I did want to say anything, however, I thought the same.

Mmm I see what you mean about the 'Police Estate' title, by time I clicked on to what he meant it was too late to do anything about it. I did try to change it though. Sorry guys.

More alley gates for Liverpool !

Another 100 alley gate schemes could be installed in Liverpool to help cut crime further, following a positive study of the first phase of the project. Over the past 10 years Liverpool City Council has put up 5,700 gates in alleyways between properties at a cost of £10 million.

LINK




And this was just the first phase of the project!

It'll probably be metal shutters over your doors and windows next.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by deadoralive]

It's a double-edged sword of a problem. In one respect the gating programme removes the immediate problem of crime in alleyways and makes the residents feel safer in their own homes, and at the same time, it segregates those same terrace-street communities in that because of the perception of the fear of crime, interact less and less with each other as a result, so requiring further measures in the future.

The one thing that is missing from these districts is opportunities for advancement and percieved inclusion in society...many inner city projects are done FOR the community, not WITH the community BY the community...to be an active part in rebuilding and improving instills pride in an area, and for a decent wage...that way, you create a community pride in what they have built with their own hands, and have skills that can be transferred to other areas, other jobs, other people.....THAT is what is missing from these districts

'tis true to say that 'the future is in your hands'

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Taikonaut]

reply to post by Taikonaut


I totally agree with what your saying

We should get all the disadvantaged teenagers involved in more projects that involve making their area a better place to live, even if it's not profitable it would be a good investment, that way not only do they feel they have achieved something positive, it gets them off the streets and everything else you said. Children are our future afterall.

Eventually a time might come where we can pull all them nasty looking barricades down and return the streets to how they was before the street thug was invented.

Am I being overly optimistic?

Damn it I give up lets just get the electric fence out instead.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by deadoralive]

I agree completely with the installation of these gates, especially since from the overhead picture it looks like every home has a back door leading into the alley.

It makes homes just that much more difficult to break into from the alley, and if you hear an intruder in your home, it is much more likely that you can phone the police and they can get there before the burglar leaves your house and makes it over whatever device he set up to get into the gates.

Even as the news you posted said, "to help cut crime further" and "another 100" meaning that these gates have successfully cut crime in the past. Now I know, never completely trust what you hear in the news, but had I lived in a high crime neighborhood I would certainly feel plenty safer to have these gates installed in the alley behind my home.

Think of it this way, nobody has a right to be in the alley except the people who have a house that lets out into it, and those people are not barred from their own back alley. This isn't restricting you, your neighbors, or your children from doing anything they normally would be doing, it is only restricting people who have absolutely no business being back there in the first place.

Also, many neighborhoods are "gated communities" and many people decide to fence in their backyard, especially in a high crime neighborhood. The problem with this however is that you can only really fence in your backyard when you have a backyard, if you live in the city like in these photographs, you were pretty much left with an unsafe 'backyard'.

I know many disagree, and I am not arguing or calling your opinions foolish. I am just discussing because we all have views, and yours are just as valid as mine, before anyone tries to make this an offensive argument.

However, good thread and I understand your position.