Has ATS become A Right Wing Side Show!?!?

reply to post by orangetom1999


Still I think you've clearly missed my point and if your gonna sit there and say your first post wasn't childish then well... your lost.

Americans are so easily manipulated. I mean the fact people went out to support Ron Pauls attempts to salvage the constitution and speak out against the FED is one thing.

But the latest "Gov IS BAD - NO Gov is good" craze baffles me.
You see it baffles me because with a government you at least need to bribe officials and trick institutions to get your crap through.

Without one any "big pharma" could sell "any crap".
And any corporation could stick cameras up their workers ass considering theres a shortage of employements not employees.
Especially when you hear people bashing freakin labourunions which would be the final obstacle for the corporations to take down after taking down the government.

So really, I don't think it's some right-wing thing. I just think people have been spun so much they don't know where they are looking anymore and all they see is their taxdollars going down the sink. But government isn't problem, it's that you aren't represented anymore that is.


[edit on 21-8-2009 by Never Anonymous]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Never Anonymous]

I would hope more right wingers are around

remember, patriots, vets, militia, constitution supports are all considered right wing.

I consider myself a right wing extremist cause I wouldn't have any problem with those that break the constitution being tried for treason and executed which is according to the law.

But of course they don't follow the law, and those that want them to follow the rules are right wing then hell yea this entire forum should be right wing.

unless they love being slaves without rights of course.

Originally posted by Cito
I would hope more right wingers are around

remember, patriots, vets, militia, constitution supports are all considered right wing.

I consider myself a right wing extremist cause I wouldn't have any problem with those that break the constitution being tried for treason and executed which is according to the law.

But of course they don't follow the law, and those that want them to follow the rules are right wing then hell yea this entire forum should be right wing.

unless they love being slaves without rights of course.

That's weird. If constitutional supporters are considered right wing then what is the ACLU and why do conservatives bash it?

No the whole right-left thing is clearly outdated or missused.
If we go back to the historical context those that were left wing were those who strived to break their bounds and live in liberty and have practical and theorethical influence of their daily lives.

The right wingers were those who belived in authority, discipline, control and such. Then they split us up, forming the various liberal and socialist groups and creating a conflict between us that would divert the attention from them. Before that the left was the united populace against the authority of the clergy, nobility and sometimes finance.
This coupled with fact that some of the now liberals and socialists attempted to dominate others within the populace through each respective system is to blame for the so disorganised popular opposition we today see against the authority. And as if that wasn't enough the nationalistic forces from the two previous later formed the fascist and nationaldemocratic/conservative fronts/ideologies further splitting up the general population into factions.



[edit on 21-8-2009 by Never Anonymous]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Never Anonymous]

reply to post by Never Anonymous


That's a stupid definition of Conservative.

I posit that there is no internationally coherent definition of Conservative.

Perhaps a regional one. Perhaps "conservative" can serve as a useful label to describe similiar political movements in Europe.

but those movements will probably have many fundamental differences with conservatives in America.

On the Left, I do think a internationally coherent defintion could apply.

Therefore I conclude that while it's possible to form useful generalizatiojns about the left that are valid across nations, the same is not true for Conservatives.

And that is because the Left is working towards the same direction.

But Conservatives are not all working towards the same direction

The mere fact that they all oppose the left is not interesting enough to say that they are the same.

Ask any American Conservative what they stand for and the answer you will generally get is


- Respect for the Constitution
- Respect for Federalism
- Respect for the Rule of Law
- Respect for private property
- Respect for human life
- The Duty and Responsibility of the Individual to develop and support
-- himself
-- his family
-- his local community

The Conservative is aware of the broken societies that litter the past.

The Conservative is aware that power is corrupting is thus power should be as diffuse as possible and within the Framework of the Constitution

I think those core principles are what all the various kinds of American Conservatives agree to.


If you ask a leftist what a conservative is, you'll get some horrifying stereotype. I guess they actualy believe their own lies. I think they're hopeless. Unable to accurately describe reality .. mired in thier bigotries and anger. The Leftists are all the things they accuse other people of being.

reply to post by VinceP1974


Vince,

I agree with your definitions with one exception..

"Respect for the Rule of Law "

be very careful and wary of this one...the rule of law is not the same as respect for the law.

The rule of law is often a watchword or slogan for the "appearance of the law"...not for the law and what was intended.

It is very similar to the Blacks Law Dictionary definition of Legal and Lawful. They too are not the same.

Lawful..pertains to the "substance" of the law...what the law was intened to do or accomplish.

Legal pertains to the "form" of law. What is implied..not necessarily what is inteded. Appearance of law..verses the substance of the law.

There is a huge difference here.

What is wrong with plain olde law?? Why do we need the rule of law ..verses law? So many people think that lawyers and "experts" will not con you on law..but they most certainly will.

Be very careful when you see or hear a politician or lawyer mention the "Rule of Law." I have seen many Presidents use this term and it always makes my antennas perk up and take notice. I mark them quickly when I hear them using it. They are lying and deceiving you when they use that word.."Rule of Law."

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Cito

unless they love being slaves without rights of course.

Hell ya, lets pinion the government so the corporations expand our rights and liberties!!!!

YYYYAAAAAAAAAHHHHAAAA!!!

I want Walmart to dictate my laws and have the stupid government OUT!!!

reply to post by orangetom1999


whatever.. go ahead and nitpick to an insane degree..

Originally posted by VinceP1974
reply to post by Never Anonymous

 

- Respect for human life

You should have inserted - (ONLY WHEN IT IS INSIDE A WOMAN)

Yet when a real world tangible issue comes up such as healthcare it does not apply does it?

OF course a persons health does not apply to their life I suspect?

Believe me, this bankrupt form of being "conservative" will be a BAD footnote in history.

What's bad is your continued deliberate lying about other people.

So why you speak on a moral level is interesting becuase when liars engaging in political debate try to use morals as a trump card it's because they usually want something that is anything except moral.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
Ask any American Conservative what they stand for and the answer you will generally get is


- Respect for the Constitution
- Respect for Federalism
- Respect for the Rule of Law
- Respect for private property
- Respect for human life
- The Duty and Responsibility of the Individual to develop and support
-- himself
-- his family
-- his local community

Wow that sure seems like a lot of respect. Too bad none was left for those with opposing views.

Contrary to their beliefs, Conservatives don't have a monopoly on respect or values or the rights that ALL American citizens share equally.

I am so over that whole "Holier than thou" faux patriot game.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by VinceP1974




What's bad is your continued deliberate lying about other people.

So why you speak on a moral level is interesting becuase when liars engaging in political debate try to use morals as a trump card it's because they usually want something that is anything except moral.

SO by DEFAULT you are saying HEALTHCARE is immoral, or providing healthcare to those who cannot afford it is IMMORAL???

I can only imagine JESUS SAYING: "...HEALTHCARE and providing such a beast to the downtrodden is a abomination in the eyes of our father god..."

Certainly the people who do not posses insurance will face the wrath of god for grave offense, only after facing the righteous wrath of the GOP first.

Get over yourself. No where did I imply that no one else had similiar ideas.

reply to post by mental modulator


The basis for a policy's legitimacy at the Federal level is whether or not something is Constitutional. Not moral.

reply to post by orangetom1999

"Respect for the Rule of Law " be very careful and wary of this one...the rule of law is not the same as respect for the law.

Unlawful=pretty much anything that contradicts the morals of a moral man or woman. Hell, at one time, it was lawful to put someone in jail for failure to pay ones Master enough taxes-oh wait that's now. Also, today it is legal to charge usury, and in the past it was illegal and unlawful. Oh wait, usury is still unlawful, because it is still immoral. Do not attack me, morals are subjective-fine-just do not EVER force your immorality or morals on me.

Listen to this. How can a country, that can coin its own money, allow a Private Corporation to charge us for the privilege of earning (this year estimated at $7.5 Trillion) enough to pay us 60% of GDP/Year?

ARE WE THE DUMBEST PEOPLE EVER?

But those damn REPUBS-DEMS

JFK was killed trying to stop this destruction of the US and we do not even see the walls of our own prison. It took them 46 years to take a country with a positive balance sheet of $48 Trillion to a negative balance sheet-some estimate at $115 Trillion. Todays worthless dollars.

We now pay, my estimate, 82% of our income in some form of direct or indirect tax including inflation.

We Americans, have not increased our population in the past 35 years. It has all been immigration-look at any research. We have had 98 million immigrants in the past 35 years. I would say we have done our part to help the world. There is a missing 500 Trillion Dollars that we Americans produced over the last 48 years. Where is it? Ask the FED, where all our profits are. Now is the time to close the borders and also pull back from EMPIRE BUILDING. We have our own problems. OUR CITIZENS ARE HURTING.

We as a nation, must agree, that we cannot force one persons will upon another. If we do, we become EVIL. We cannot continue fighting each other.
If you believe that to take from one and give to another is ok-you are no longer my fellow man. Ask your government, where all the money has gone and quit asking your fellow slave to support you, we have been supporting the world for long enough. Yes, we must have regulations to prevent the very evil that causes one man to take advantage of another. But we must not give away our very freedoms to facilitate this.

Would it not be nice to be allowed to do what you would like, without the interference of another, as long as it does not hurt another. That is what the constitution is all about. But our politicians LOVE there POWER and GLORY. They love to control things. Looks like we are pretty close to the point that ROME FELL DUE TO THE CORRUPTION, NARCISSISM, and EVIL.

Enough is Enough

Sorry for my rant and I am neither Dem or Repub, and I am not liberal or conservative. I AM AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


edit for punct

[edit on 8/22/2009 by endisnighe]

to the op: i voted ndp in every election since i was eligable. that is progressive democrat in usa terms....fact is i'd vote for obama if he was a canadian, but in america it just can't happen. It is impossible to keep your country going the way it is.
change. ridiculous. more of the same, that is inarguable.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
reply to post by mental modulator

 

The basis for a policy's legitimacy at the Federal level is whether or not something is Constitutional. Not moral.

Vince,

This was exactly my point about the Rule of Law verses the Law.

They bait and switch just like they do with the Constitution and what is moral...though it be contrary to the Consitution.

Legal verses Lawful.

Form verses Substance.

You are on a roll now..Keep it up.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

Listen to this. How can a country, that can coin its own money, allow a Private Corporation to charge us for the privilege of earning (this year estimated at $7.5 Trillion) enough to pay us 60% of GDP/Year?

ARE WE THE DUMBEST PEOPLE EVER?

I have known about the FEd and phoney fiat money system for many many years now.

I also know about Ron Pauls stance on the Fed and at the same time Ron Paul was coming up in politics another was also, named Larry McDonald. US House of Represenatives.
Larry McDonald was very outspoken about the Fed and the phoney fiat banking system. He was shot down in a Korean Air Lines flight 007 on route to Korea off the coast of Japan by a Russian Mig fighter.

I also know about honest money systems in the matter of systems of Just Weights and Measures in Silver and Gold to the Dollar Weight and Pennies or copper to the Pennyweight as outlined in the United States Codes Annotated.

What we use to day is a phoney fiat money system of copper nickle fiat coinage ,which does not adhere to the coinage acts, and irredeemable paper moneys....which do not adhere to the Uniform Commercial Code covering notes. The notes issued today no longer say on them..

"Will Pay to the Bearer on Demand"

A Very telling omission if one knows any history.

In short we are using a system of unjust weights and measures whereas in times past we had a system of Just Weights And Measures.

The moneys state on them "In God We Trust." I would like to know the name of the god of unjust weights and measures...the god who is a counterfeitter...a liar. I would also like to know when, where, and why our government switched gods to the god of unjust weights and measures ...yet told no one they had done this.

For I know the name of the God of Just Weights and Measures.

I also know the name of the god of unjust weights and measures.

This is a prime example of form over substance. legal verses Lawful

Or to put it another way..a legal tender verses a Lawful Tender.

The rule of law verses simply the Law.

And this is a very devout religious system of corruption at work.

It is possible by this counterfeit system of money creation to steal and corrupt the very soul of a nation and its people and without them beiing aware that it is happening. The ancient word for this type of wholesale corruption through a phoney money system ..is "whoredom."
The ability to buy, sell, trade, barter..the very souls of whole entire nations.

This is precisely how people get dummed down....as our own government is not teaching us this simple truth by default. After all ..they are themselves financing our public educations to thie exclusion of this knowledge. They have a vested interest in our continued stupidity.

Also you are correct in your implication..both the Republicans and Democrats are doing this...they are both phoneys and Liars in this...while they both raise the deficits.

Correct once again in your implications that this is exactly the route or road followed by Ancient Rome where they fell under the burden of debt and deficit while corrupting the morals of the public through wholesale debaucheries.

As some would say..history repeats itself.

However ..the part that I find missing from history is the tale of the financers and money lenders and thier influence on governments. I find this totally missing from the history books. Very interesting omission.

I too do not put much stock in both the Republicans or Democrats.

Well said in your post...well said!!

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 22-8-2009 by orangetom1999]