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Who's behind the attacks on a health care overhaul?

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posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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news.yahoo.com...




WASHINGTON — Much of the money and strategy behind the so-called grassroots groups organizing opposition to the Democrats' health care plans comes from conservative political consultants, professional organizers and millionaires, some of whom hold financial stakes in the outcome.

If President Barack Obama and Congress extend health insurance coverage to millions of uninsured Americans, raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for it, and limit insurers' discretion on who they cover and what they charge, that could pinch these opponents.

Most of them say they oppose big government in principle. Despite Obama's assurances to the contrary, many of them insist that the Democrats' legislation is but the first step toward creation of a single-payer system, where the federal government hires the doctors, approves treatments, sets the rules and imperils profit.



Grassroots organizations? Apparently there is some big money being spent to derail Obama's HC package. The tactics will probably work and HC will probably remain the same with HMO, Insurance companies, and their lobbyist deciding what kind of healthcare Americans receive. Or don't receive as many Americans aren't insured.


 

mod edit, to cut length of quote

[edit on 16-8-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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I guess you missed the part about supporters of Goverment run health care outspent opponents 2-1.

The only way Mr. Obama's administration forces this down our throats is to continually lie about it.

The American people are more informed than ever, and our representatives who are on the fence realize this!



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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I am not surprised people on both sides are organizing and spending money...but I know an angry regular citizen when I see one..and to call them anything else is disgusting.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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You do realize that how much you invest in something has no relationship to if people will use their free will to do it or not?

A person investing a dollar in these grass roots things has the same affect as a company investing 1 billion: 0%.

These things still require a person to willfully go. And if a company wants to make money off it, it's their right.

I have absolutely no problem with ABC and NBC funding the green movement. It still requires public will to go with it.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 





Who's behind the attacks on a health care overhaul?

The topic of health care is so important to every American, and hits so close to each home, that regardless of groups that are organizing propaganda on both sides, most Americans are expressing their concerns AND fears. They don't need someone behind them to stand up and be heard. This is truly an American Revolution. Not all revolutions require guns. The pen is mightier than the sword, an old but true saying.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by whaaa
 





Who's behind the attacks on a health care overhaul?

The topic of health care is so important to every American, and hits so close to each home, that regardless of groups that are organizing propaganda on both sides, most Americans are expressing their concerns AND fears. They don't need someone behind them to stand up and be heard. This is truly an American Revolution. Not all revolutions require guns. The pen is mightier than the sword, an old but true saying.


How many Americans do you think have sat down and read the bill? Now how many of these people showing up making fools of themselves at these town hall do you think have read the bill? This nothing but comfortable people fearing they'll lose their comfort. This is no revolution, this is pathetic propaganda and the holding back of advancement.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 


If you consider government expansion as the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face, forever.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 





This is no revolution, this is pathetic propaganda and the holding back of advancement.

I see, and of course, you are the sole judge of all of those people. You, of course, are also the sole judge and have blessed this legislation as "advancement".
How quaint!
All hail the CuriousSkeptic.
It must be quite a burden to be so omniscient.
I guess being omniscient does not require you to construct a sentence that people can understand:




This nothing but comfortable people fearing they'll lose their comfort.


Maybe we can have a contest on ATS, and see if anyone can figure out what that babbling sentence you wrote means.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 


You seem to forget how it "needed" to be passed months ago...BEFORE you or anyone else even had a chance to read it.

Trying to ram somthing like this through concerning such a complex problem doesnt seem like responsible advancement to me.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 





This is no revolution, this is pathetic propaganda and the holding back of advancement.

I see, and of course, you are the sole judge of all of those people. You, of course, are also the sole judge and have blessed this legislation as "advancement".
How quaint!
All hail the CuriousSkeptic.
It must be quite a burden to be so omniscient.
I guess being omniscient does not require you to construct a sentence that people can understand:




This nothing but comfortable people fearing they'll lose their comfort.


Maybe we can have a contest on ATS, and see if anyone can figure out what that babbling sentence you wrote means.


If you don’t have a basic knowledge in reading comprehension I can’t help you. However, you just made the case for most of what the problem is with these protestors.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 





If you don’t have a basic knowledge in reading comprehension I can’t help you.

My reading comprehension is fine. Your grammar is atrocious. If you believe that the sentence I quoted is complete, you need to repeat second grade.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Friendly Reminder



Please discuss the topic of the thread and not each other.

Topic:

Who's behind the attacks on a health care overhaul?


Thank you.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 



How many Americans do you think have sat down and read the bill?


Obviously, our representatives are some of these Americans you speak about. Maybe if they had read the bill, a lot of the questions put forth to them would have been answered in an articulate manner rather than in an ignoring way.

It is a shame when Shiela Jackson has to be on a Hotline in order to get answers about healthcare.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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I've been to the doctor once in 20 years, so I don't pay much attention to this topic, despite its importance. I haven't listened to any speeches, or heard the debate. I don't have cable and really don't know anything other than reading a headline while surfing the web that said something to the effect that Obama says the Insurance companies are holding america hostage.

So, I'll say its the insurance companies. I have no idea what the current health care delivery system looks like and don't know how the current legislation will change the structure of the system. But, I'll respond with great certainty that the insurance companies will have their revenues greatly reduced if this new scheme is implemented and they don't want it to pass in its current form.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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Yeah.. I think there are more important things going on then grammar and comprehension. How bout staying on point?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 


Jon Stewart found a very nice touch.....
the crank cycle- Fox News

there is a little bit about cash for clunkers before he gets to the town hall baiting part.



[edit on 16-8-2009 by nixie_nox]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 





Who's behind the attacks on a health care overhaul?


Why does it even have to be considered an attack?
In my opinion, that is a loaded question, with a presumption of fact. If people voice their opinions concerning proposed legislation, does that really mean it is an attack, or just people voicing their opposition? One can disagree with another, without it being an attack.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


If the point is valid why is it bad?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 





How many Americans do you think have sat down and read the bill? Now how many of these people showing up making fools of themselves at these town hall do you think have read the bill? This nothing but comfortable people fearing they'll lose their comfort. This is no revolution, this is pathetic propaganda and the holding back of advancement.


First I have read the bill. Second I have no health care insurance. Third I am still opposed to the bill.

Why? Because I KNOW that the government can not do anything without it costing more than the same service from private business., All the blasted paperwork that bureaucrats love will insures this. That means Socialized Medicine will cause a net decrease in real income for most of the people who are employed. There is no way this is not going to cost the American worker money. Bush and Obama already saddled us with paying for the bank and auto industry bailouts, the real unemployment is about 20%. The health care industry is 17% of the GNP. Can we really afford to gamble on Socialized Medicine when the economy has gone to he!!, and our education and work ethics sucks, so rebuilding a healthy economy will be very difficult?

I would have a lot more faith in Obama if I saw some really meaningful legislation aimed at encouraging small business. Instead business and the American Worker get saddled with more taxes.

Corporate taxes are passed on to the employees


"Most people think that corporate income taxes are paid by wealthy, anonymous companies," said Scott Hodge, President of the Tax Foundation. "But as economists have been teaching for years, people bear the burden of corporate taxes, not companies."

Research from the Congressional Budget Office shows that in a global economy where capital is highly mobile but workers can't easily move abroad, workers end up bearing the brunt of corporate taxes. In 2007, Economist William Randolph found that 70 percent of corporate tax burdens fall on employees through lower wages and productivity, while the remaining 30 percent fall on company shareholders. A recent Tax Foundation study shows the federal corporate income tax alone collected $370 billion in 2007. That's an average household burden of $3,190 per year - more than the average household spends on restaurant food, gasoline or home electricity in a year. Source


Poor state of American Education


"For 10 years, William Schmidt, a statistics professor at Michigan State University, has looked at how U.S. students stack up against students in other countries in math and science. "In fourth-grade, we start out pretty well, near the top of the distribution among countries; by eighth-grade, we're around average, and by 12th-grade, we're at the bottom of the heap, outperforming only two countries, Cyprus and South Africa." :Source


Businesses do not want to hire American workers


... Surveys of corporations consistently find that businesses are focused outside • the U.S. to recruit necessary talent. In a 2002 survey, 16 global corporations complained that American schools did not produce students with global skills. United States companies agreed. The survey found that 30 percent of large U.S. companies “believed they had failed to exploit fully their international business opportunities due to insufficient personnel with international skills.” One respondent to the survey even noted, “If I wanted to recruit people who are both technically skilled and culturally aware, I wouldn’t even waste time looking for them on U.S. college campuses.”

....In 2000, 28 percent of all freshmen entering a degree-granting institution required remedial coursework Source


To put it bluntly the United States CAN NOT afford any more government period. We need to realize we are at a tipping point that may bankrupt this country.

The thread Is The FDIC Still Solvent? shows just how close we may be to Iceland's situation.



One year ago, Iceland was named the most desirable country in the world. Today, its economy has been devastated by the catastrophic collapse of its three largest banks. Unemployment rose 45% between November and December, and a recent survey indicated that 40% of households and 70% of businesses were technically bankrupt. Since the fall of the banks in October, there have been no resignations from the government, the boards of the now nationalized banks have remained substantially the same, and weekly gatherings calling for new elections have been ignored.....

"We are calling on the world to help us get rid of this corrupt government," Sturla Jonsson,.... "And I want to tell you that the people gathered here are not "activists" or "militants," he added, "they are just ordinary adults of all ages.".....

Americans will certainly recognize strong parallels between Iceland's current situation and their own. Source





As the meltdown in the Icelandic financial system quickened, with the government seemingly powerless to do anything about it, analysts said there was probably only one realistic option left: for Iceland to be bailed out by the International Monetary Fund.

"Iceland is bankrupt," said Arsaell Valfells, a professor at the University of Iceland. "The Icelandic krona is history. The IMF has to come and rescue us." Source


What happens to a country when the World Bank/IMF takes over?




Structural Adjustment Policies are economic policies which countries must follow in order to qualify for new World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans and help them make debt repayments on the older debts owed to commercial banks, governments and the World Bank. Although SAPs are designed for individual countries but have common guiding principles and features which include export-led growth; privatisation and liberalisation; and the efficiency of the free market.

SAPs generally require countries to devalue their currencies.... lift import and export restrictions; balance their budgets and not overspend; and remove price controls and state subsidies.

SAPs often result in deep cuts in programmes such as education, health ans social care,and the removal of subsidies designed to control the price of basics such as food and milk. So SAPs hurt the poor the most
Source


That is an explanation of WHY I do not support ANY more expansion of the US Government at this time.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Ive read the bill as well and along with other reasons, I absolutely agree with your posts...


There are a number of reasons NOT to support this bill, IMHO more reasons to stop it then push it through.

Also, I would like to add to the OP.......YOU made this post with a quote, but absolutely NO mention or concrete proof of any of the funding, or organizations doing the funding, to the supposed "right wing" extremist , to incite the town halls.

I could start listing organizations like the SEIU , ACORN and a few others, and if youve read any of my old posts on ACORN youd know ive been following this for a long time.

Not to mention the Labor unions ......

These 3 groups BUS people to these town halls and are blatant about what they are doing, and we KNOW the gov is funneling them money and covering their butts, but its the GOP funding the uprising at town halls?

Really?

Like i said, if any of this is true, dont provide me with some quote from yahoo.com that cant provide any evidence what so ever....

Sure, im sure there are some people with hands in the pot doing things on the right, and id prefer the right stay the hell out of it (atleast the politicians)

But this kind of mud flinging when the left is so blatant about it , is roughly equivalent of a spouse accusing you of cheating while shes the one bringing the milkman through the back door.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ManBehindTheMask]

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ManBehindTheMask]




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