World War III

This post is for all the left wing babies out there who are in the middle of their crying session about the United States and its actions in the Middle East.

I do not know much about foriegn relations to start off. The observations I am about to make are purely speculation. I am going to present fact, but my conclusions are my opinion, to make it clear up front.

I want everyone to take a long look at the climate in the Middle East. I think there is more to the story than you or I know. All of the countries over there are taking sides, and rumors of nuclear actions are being spread all over. Isreal, the little tiny non-muslim country is surrounded by a bunch of radical islamic countries....who want them as well as the rest of western civilization dead. Iran is trying to obtain nuclear weapons, more than likely in an attempt to threaten Isreal (and they are getting help from china and russia more than likely). (Note that France and Germany are both in agreement with the US for a change, that there is a problem over there) Syria is in the same boat, becoming a serious threat to the stability of the region, and we all know that Palistine is radical. Lebonan and Lybia are insane, and the United states just attacked the military and geographical epicenter of the region.

Maybe the United States isn't there for freaking oil like you liberal people keep saying. Maybe the United States isn't there because of Sadam. Maybe the United States can see imminent disaster on the horizon. All those bible thumpers over there, with there promised lands, want to self fulfill these prophecies of armegheddon. These people are insane, and nearly nuclear capable. Do you honestly think that a group of people who are capable of chopping someones head off while they are alive and screaming, would hesitate to attack Isreal or any other country or region that even remotely supported western culture? Do you think they would hesitate to use nuclear weapons?

The U.S. just planted a seed of hope right in the middle of the area. We now have the ability to at the very least make Iran consider before it pulls any stunts regarding Isreal, and vice versa. They would have to attack each other through us. We weekened Iraq, and in the process weekened the entire Middle East. We have a place to stage our troops right smack dab in the middle of Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, not to mention the close proximity to all the other places out there. We have created a focus point for the violence caused by the muslim jihad movement. We have taken a huge chunk out of a terrible, western world hating alliance, that has been planning to kill all of us for years.

These people think that killing non muslims is a sure ticket to heaven. They believe that murder and violence are the key to imposing their religious views on the rest of the world. They have minds that could not possibly be working correctly (the only people I know that can kill so personally and indiscriminately are serial killers with mental disorders).

People, we are on the verge of World War III (if it already hasn't started). This is no game that we can just pull out of like Vietnam. We pull out of there now, we are leaving the fate of the world in the hands of radical Islam and their religious values. How nice that the world is falling apart because of this, how fitting.

I am totally astonished that most people can't see these problems boiling over. I think that the people who can't are just too lazy to care enough. Yeah, war sucks. It sucked alot for the people who gave you the right to complain about things like you do. It sucked for the people who saved the world twice. Those men and women died for things that you take for granted. What a crying shame. What an insult to our ancestors. What a disgrace to our country.



[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

Originally posted by Seapeople
These people think that killing non muslims is a sure ticket to heaven. They believe that murder and violence are the key to imposing their religious views on the rest of the world. They have minds that could not possibly be working correctly (the only people I know that can kill so personally and indiscriminately are serial killers with mental disorders).

'They' are human beings you are talking about seapeople. How can you expect your opinions to be taken seriously when you right of all Muslims as murderous loons who are trying to 'buy their ticket into heaven'. Most people there hate the west because we continually decide to # over any small, poor country that has our interests within it. It was the west that created the problem of Palestien and Israel, It was the west that put Saddam in Iraq in the first place (providing his weapons too) and then we stroll back a while later on a moral mission against his tyrany? The west is hated because not only do we have it good here, we make things worse in the rest of the world too whenever it suits our leaders interest, or the corportations interests.

WWIII started on 9/11.

I don't care why the situation is the way it is. It is completely meanigless. These "human beings" fly freaking airplanes into our buildings. The bomb governmental buildings all over the world on a daily basis....and not all of these places are western related. These human beings have little regard for one another let alone the rest of the world. They want us dead. I didn't do anything to any one of those people over there, yet if I went over there...they would chop my head off, and yours too. You cry like a baby whining violence. Then you say...they are human beings...

HOW STUPID ARE YOU. Human beings are violent in nature. Radical religious beliefs don't help. You say not all muslims are like that? Where are the muslim groups against radical islam at? Why don't I see them on the news?

You know what you need to do. You need to watch video of the 911 ATTACK. You need to remember those innocent people jumping down to the ground from 90 stories because they couldn't breathe. You need to see the people pulling there burning close from their bodies. Look at them flail their arms in a pathetic attempt to fly. What did they do? You need to watch the video of the beheading of Nic Berg. You need to see him kicking and screaming as THEY CUT HIS LIVING AND BREATHING HEAD OFF. What did he do to them?

Its people like you that are going to get me killed. The pain and suffering in the middle east is not caused by the United States. It is caused by their own leaders. You see, what you obviously don't understand is that money....its all fake. We can create it based on public confidence in society. That goes for anywhere in the world. Those people are convinced we are stealing their wealth, when all the while...the only wealth that is stolen from them is taken by their own leaders and if they were allowed to, they could create their own.

By the way....you said that the United States put Sadam in power. Interesting.

You are completely off base. You see, you lump the entire United states all together just as I lumped the Muslim community all together. Yet it is OK for you to do it (typical whiny liberal wanting his way and refusing to see it any other)

We are in the situation we are in regardless. It is real. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Now we have to do whatever it takes to stop a catastrophy. Since you identify with these people so much....you should go live there.......would you be willing to???? I didnt think so you hypocrit.



[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

I don't think we're there entirely for the oil, that's pretty short sighted. The US is interested in power and influence over the middle east region for many reasons. In the long term stabilizing that region will help the world, but the way the US is going about it is frightening. Time will tell if this Iraq war is worth the price.

Originally posted by Seapeople
You know what you need to do. You need to watch video of the 911 ATTACK. You need to remember those innocent people jumping down to the ground fron 90 stories because they couldn't breathe. You need to see the people pulling there burning close from their bodies. Look at them flail their arms in a pathetic attempt to fly. What did they do? You need to watch the video of the beheading of Nic Berg. You need to see him kicking and screaming as THEY CUT HIS LIVING AND BREATHING HEAD OFF. What did he do to them?

Dude, I lived through that #. I was only a few blocks away from the WTC and witnessed the horror first hand. Your reaction to the current state of affairs in the middle east region is nearly as extreme as the people you hate. Living in NYC I've met and worked with many different people of the Musilm faith. None of them were violent people who would fly passenger jets into skyscrapers. That's like saying all Christians are evil because of the wacko Christians who shoot people in abortion clinics.

So then, since you know them all, why don't you help them organize a movement against their radical sectors. I don't see these people standing up for freedom. You want to know why? Because their religion is there way of life. Their bible instructs them to kill infidels. If you are not muslim...by definition to the muslim community....you are an infidel.

You say that you lived close to New York. Maybe you got a good look then at how serious the threat that these people pose to the United States. There are attacks all over the world, on nearly every single day. These attacks were occuring long before this conflict in Iraq. They were occuring long before the conflict in Afghanistan. These have been going on for decades. The violence in these areas has been brewing, and it is starting to boil over. We need to stop it. We need to stop radical Islam Jihad, Hamas, Hesbollah, and all the other radical fundamentalist groups out there.

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

Seapeople hit the nail on the head. And, earthtone, you are way off base. It may be stereotypical to lump all Muslims together, but I ask you, what are these "other" muslims doing to stop them madness among them? Nothing! Pure and simple. The truth of the matter is that they support the actions of their demonic brethren because they think it will be beneficial to them in the long run. Oh, they'll put on a shameful face, and utter how disgraceful the actions are, but they won't lift a finger to stop them.

When a large faction of the U.S. thought slavery should be preseved, another large faction of the U. S. stood up and took to arms to defend their position. I don't see any other Muslims doing anything to rally against the actions of their "brothers" When you lie with dogs, you get fleas. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If the shoe were on the other foot, and I saw a fellow American killing innocents for any reason, my actions would be clearly defined for me - that murderer would be dealt with. Why won't the Muslims do the same???

Originally posted by Seapeople
I don't care why the situation is the way it is. It is completely meanigless. These "human beings" fly freaking airplanes into our buildings.

Again you are lumping an entire religion of people into the catagory of heartless terrorists. I don't know how you could be any more ignorant. You undermine yourself by being so completely stupid! How can you consider an etire race of people evil by the actions of so few? I certainly don't want be considered anywhere the near the same as the people who lead our 'free society'.

You cry like a baby whining violence. Then you say...they are human beings...

they are human beings.

Where are the muslim groups against radical islam at? Why don't I see them on the news?

"Although there is no justification for the terrorist acts of September 11, American support for authoritarian regimes in the Muslim world both breeds radical opposition in these countries and stimulates anti-American sentiment.


When moderate Muslims remain silent, extremists speak for all. It is time that Muslim moderates rescued Islam and Muslim causes from the clutches of extremists.


Moderate Muslims must fight against all forms of prejudice, hatred, and intolerance within Muslim ranks and must militantly advocate peaceful resolutions of conflict both within and outside the community.


The West and Islam need to actively engage each other and learn the best that they each have to offer."
www.usip.org...
Have a read......

You know what you need to do. You need to watch video of the 911 ATTACK. You need to remember those innocent people jumping down to the ground fron 90 stories because they couldn't breathe. You need to see the people pulling there burning close from their bodies. You need to watch the video of the beheading of Nic Berg. You need to see him kicking and screaming as THEY CUT HIS LIVING AND BREATHING HEAD OFF. What did he do to them?

I was, and still am, completely horrified by the events of 9/11, so much so that I started a research team about here at ATS. However people like you just don't seem to

That goes for anywhere in the world. Those people are convinced we are stealing their wealth,

Apart from the people in the third world who the American companys exploit and enslave with no unions, and no regard for their health. Look at the shoes on your feet, they were probably baught for more than the person who made them would make in a year, two years. The west exploits and bullies, thus we are hated.

You are completely off base. You see, you lump the entire United states all together just as I lumped the Muslim community all together.

I was actually reffering to the government, not the entire U.S population, how could I claim that the people where responsible for putting Saddam in place? Stop your straw grabbing..

Since you identify with these people so much....you should go live there.......would you be willing to???? I didnt think so you hypocrit.

Hypocrit? Well Mr. Peace, how about you stop running off that mouth of yours and start to think about why things like this are actually happening? Maybe if people didn't hate the fellow spirits on this planet, as you clearly do, then maybe we could look at peace. You just don't see that you are part of this problem. Maybe you should look into having a conversation with a Muslim, or are you scared you'll get blown up?

If only people like you could actually take a second to feel for people who are not as benefited with education and everything else we take for granted. Violence never solves anything, what example are we 'civilised' nations leading for people who don't know anything else?

Originally posted by Seapeople
So then, since you know them all, why don't you help them organize a movement against their radical sectors. I don't see these people standing up for freedom. You want to know why? Because their religion is there way of life. Their bible instructs them to kill infidels. If you are not muslim...by definition to the muslim community....you are an infidel.

You say that you lived close to New York. Maybe you got a good look then at how serious the threat that these people pose to the United States. There are attacks all over the world, on nearly every single day. These attacks were occuring long before this conflict in Iraq. They were occuring long before the conflict in Afghanistan. These have been going on for decades. The violence in these areas has been brewing, and it is starting to boil over. We need to stop it. We need to stop radical Islam Jihad, Hamas, Hesbollah, and all the other radical fundamentalist groups out there.

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

I never claimed to know all Muslim people. And I do agree that radical Islamic terrorists should be exterminated. But they do not represent every Muslims beliefs. Yeah, I got a good look at what terrorists are capable of. Close enough to smell the burning buildings and watch people jump out to avoid the flames... not sitting on my ass in front of a TV watching it from the comfort of my living room.

Originally posted by BostonBill99

I don't see any other Muslims doing anything to rally against the actions of their "brothers" When you lie with dogs, you get fleas. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If the shoe were on the other foot, and I saw a fellow American killing innocents for any reason, my actions would be clearly defined for me - that murderer would be dealt with. Why won't the Muslims do the same???

What are you talking about? This ignorance astonishes me. What are you suggesting here, it is the entire Muslim religions fault that extremists are targeting western interests and that they should somehow just sort the problem out because it is their religion?

You say that Muslims think that this terrorism will 'benefit them'? what?. So you're saying they see incresingly stricter immigration laws, dissolving civil liberties, many muslims in prison camps with no trials, wars against Islamic countries and increasing ignorance and racism against their culture as benefits? pull the wool of your eyes that you have sewn on there.

Originally posted by Seapeople
So then, since you know them all, why don't you help them organize a movement against their radical sectors. I don't see these people standing up for freedom. You want to know why? Because their religion is there way of life. Their bible instructs them to kill infidels. If you are not muslim...by definition to the muslim community....you are an infidel.

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

Yes, but it also states in YOUR bible to kill homosexuals, kids that disobey their parents, witches, etc......the list goes on and on. So by your definition.....Christians are no better than Muslims. Now if you want to restate that radical Christians are no better than radical Muslims....you might be getting a little closer to the truth.

I am not advocating peace. In a perfect world....peace would be great. Unfortunately free will has removed that possibility. You find one isolated picture and news article online and you post it as if it is part of this huge movement. That movement must be top secret or something.

I am lumping an entire religion into this because their religion is their life. And in reality I am not lumpind the entire muslim community in this at all. It is their government. It is their instructions. You see, even in the Christian Bible, people have been instructed to kill infidels. The thing is, as civilization has advanced.....The western world has grown up...while the Middle East decided not too. Now the rest of the world is suffering due to their ideals, and due to the ideals of people like you.

Now let me make something clear. I am aware that not all muslims are as violent. I even specifically stated THE ISLAMIC JIHAD MOVEMENT, HAMAS, AND HESBOLLAH ( I should have included al-quaeda). I am aware that some muslims want peace. That doesnt mean that they want peace with me or you. They want me and you gone, because of our ways of life. Honestly...Im going to say it again. Its people like you that are going to get me killed. People like you who are so caught up in this dream world of life, that they refuse to accept that people might actually hate them just because they are of a different religion. Even Christians are hateful to those not of their faith.

Now to the "Islam is Peace" sign. Thats amazing.....considering that MILLIONS OF RADICAL ISLAM FOLLOWERS ARE KILLING FOR THEIR "PEACEFUL" RELIGION.

You started a research team and people like me dont seem to....and then it stopped... I dont seem to what?

So, why don't you give me some examples of these people that America has enslaved in third world countries......

You said you are referring to the government, and that the Citizens of the US are not responsible....yet they payed the price on numerous occasions. Its not the government who pays, it is us. If we don't stop the problem....it will get bigger.

Violence never solves anything. Wow, I think you need to go give a class to some islamic extremists...as they are the ones that are in need of this lesson. I am dissapointed in your lack of ability to see human beings for what they truly are.

People don't learn their lessons from words in this world. Large groups of people don't learn their lesson by anything short of violence. It is human nature and part of who we are whether you are willing to admit it or not. I would like to see your proposal of a way to solve this problem in the Middle East.

What should we do Oh Wise One?

Originally posted by MacMerdin

Originally posted by Seapeople
So then, since you know them all, why don't you help them organize a movement against their radical sectors. I don't see these people standing up for freedom. You want to know why? Because their religion is there way of life. Their bible instructs them to kill infidels. If you are not muslim...by definition to the muslim community....you are an infidel.

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

Yes, but it also states in YOUR bible to kill homosexuals, kids that disobey their parents, witches, etc......the list goes on and on. So by your definition.....Christians are no better than Muslims. Now if you want to restate that radical Christians are no better than radical Muslims....you might be getting a little closer to the truth.

Now, you said my bible. Thats funny...

In any case...if you would have read further through the posts, you would have seen my response to this already. You see....Millions of christians are not in the habbit of killing their children or stoning rape victims. I know all about what the bible has to say. You should read some of my other posts in the faith and spirituality section. Radical Muslims BY THE MILLIONS are acting out on the instructions in their doctrine. That is the difference.

You do have a point about the acting out difference. I was just pointing out that both religious texts condone murder.

Originally posted by MacMerdin
both religious texts condone murder.

People will read into their holy books as they see fit, violence or peace. The control systems that are called Religions seem to propel far more evil than good. Anyway thats another debate.

Seapeople, I'm sorry, but how in the # do you seem to draw these conclusions? Millions of Muslims acting out violently against the world? Do you make up your own facts as the government do? These escalating problems stem from the wests continued choice to do as it wished in the middle east. America will go into Iraq, justifying the killing of Iraqi women and children because they 'got rid of a dictator'. Yet America gives support to repressive regimes in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait to name a few, their interest for oil and money being the primary drive.


"American support for authoritarian regimes in the Muslim world both breeds radical opposition in these countries and stimulates anti-American sentiment. He cites Turkey, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait as examples of non-democratic regimes that repress popular movements with U.S. support. The lack of peaceful channels for protest and dissent in the Arab world has slowly radicalized most moderate Islamic opposition groups. The West legitimized the military coup that prevented Islamists from coming to power after winning an election in Algeria in 1992. The United States gave tacit support to Turkey when it forced Islamists out of power in the 1990s, even after they had won popular mandates. "It is not the hatred of democracy and freedom but the desire for democracy that has made many Muslims hate the United States, which they blame for the perpetuation of undemocratic polities in their world." Other sources of hostility include American troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, U.S.-supported sanctions against Iraq, and uncritical American support for Israel. Khan goes on to say that none of this justifies the atrocities of September 11. "I wonder how those Muslims responsible for the slaughter of American civilians would rationalize their actions in the light of this Quranic verse: 'He who has killed one innocent soul, it is as if he has killed all humanity. And he who has saved one soul, it is as if he has saved all humanity . . .' (Quran 5:32). What happened was horrible, inhuman, and un-Islamic. But reflection over Muslim grievances can help us understand how even devout people can be driven to commit themselves to terror. Systematic repression dispossesses people of their humanity, inciting them to commit inhuman acts."


"There are three dangers, against which all peace-loving people must be on guard: (1) this conflict must not be allowed to become a clash of civilizations between Islam and the West; (2) hawks and extremists must not be allowed to hijack and dominate the discourses in the West and in the Muslim world; and (3) the search for security and revenge should not be allowed to undermine the moral fabric of our societies."

www.usip.org...

Originally posted by MacMerdin
Yes, but it also states in YOUR bible to kill homosexuals, kids that disobey their parents, witches, etc......the list goes on and on. So by your definition.....Christians are no better than Muslims. Now if you want to restate that radical Christians are no better than radical Muslims....you might be getting a little closer to the truth.

I can agree with that, Right Wing Christians and I mean RIGHT WING, are just as bad, do they use violence, just ask the Abortion doctors. Are Muslims More Extreme. Maybe not as a Religion, but the bad Apples, Are Rotten to the core, and blinded. and they are the ones on the news. Now whos fault is that, Proably the media, the news that only shows bad over good.

So I think everyone here has a peice of the truth.

Sea, All Muslims arent evil, we just dont hear about the good ones, We can tell this isnt there fault because whens the last time you heard about any good our boys or doing over there. They ARE doing good things over, but we dont hear about, I think Good Musilms are in the same boat.

Should we pre-emptive strike some of these guys. Well I can say one thing IF Saddam ever got the Bomb, you know where it would land, And Well Iran and its Goverment have no problem take US people Hostage, they hate the west and want to see it destroyed.

Now the left may not like it, but we need someone to have ball enough to do they nasty things we need to do to protect us from these future threats.

You know what sucks, Is some of you are SO RIGHT or SO LEFT you are blinded by your Support for your side and dont see the obvious problems BOTH sides have, IS there anyone who follows the truth and heart anymore Both sides have Valid points and we should be searching for real solutions. AT least thats my 2 cents

Originally posted by MacMerdin
You do have a point about the acting out difference. I was just pointing out that both religious texts condone murder.

This is not about the texts. This is about death and violence. I am aware that both books have references to this as I have been pointing out for some time now. There is still a difference. In this country, if someone murders another for religious reasons, they will be jailed. In a muslim country, it is nearly acceptable. There is a huge difference.

I do though see where you are coming from. The extent that some people take religious beliefs can defy what I consider to be moral behavior...and thats on both sides of the fence.

Now, earth buddy. You need to relax. Your language is so pleasant .

I have some questions for you Earthtone. Are radical muslims peaceful or not? Yes or No. Would they kill you if given the chance? Yes or No. Do radical muslims exist in your opinion? Yes or no. If yes, how do you suppose we get rid of them?

Are radical muslims peaceful or not? NO .
Would they kill you if given the chance? Yes (and in some cases hang your boy from abridge or cut your head off and tape it.
. Do radical muslims exist in your opinion? Yes .
If yes, how do you suppose we get rid of them? They way are doing it (not Iraq or Afgahn) but the Secret Ops stuff we have no idea about.

Key word here though is Radical Muslim, I also think we should get rid of anyone who is a radical that will kill Innocent people (Radical Christian (KKk) etc.., and get rid of the Older dude who said his XBOX was radical to me yesterday at Circut city.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio



Are radical muslims peaceful or not? NO .
Would they kill you if given the chance? Yes (and in some cases hang your boy from abridge or cut your head off and tape it.
. Do radical muslims exist in your opinion? Yes .
If yes, how do you suppose we get rid of them? They way are doing it (not Iraq or Afgahn) but the Secret Ops stuff we have no idea about.

Key word here though is Radical Muslim, I also think we should get rid of anyone who is a radical that will kill Innocent people (Radical Christian (KKk) etc.., and get rid of the Older dude who said his XBOX was radical to me yesterday at Circut city.

HAHAHAHA,

Those darn older dudes and their x-boxes......

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Seapeople]

9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq. President Bush has said that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.