I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

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posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mental modulator
 




I'm glad to pay for OP recovery!


Well, we as society already pay for them anyways, so what's the point in arguing it..


YUP

tis the point and while I am at it the feller might go on to contribute in great ways.

But you got the superseding point...




posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


There is no doubt that insurance needs overhauling in their practices.. specifically who and how they decline benefits or accept as coverage.. as well as the spreads they use to determine costs.

I always tell people that can't afford a health plan to get a discount plan .. at the very least you almost never pay the "full price" for anything, it's a long way from insurance though.

Theres a difference in regulating an industry and replacing it with government however.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mental modulator
 




I'm glad to pay for OP recovery!


...Even if he/she ends up addicted once again? And again? And again? And all to often in these destructive drug induced scenarios a kid pops out of someone addicted to the same crap the parent was on.. bet ya can't wait to pay for that little accident too? Well, we as society already pay for them anyways, so what's the point in arguing it..


Your initial post was much more potent, there is no point.

It is the world we live in...



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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It doesn't really matter you can "want" all you want, but you aren't going to get it. Even if this bill does pass it isn't going to be anything like what you think it is.

Only the very rich are going to be able to afford private insurance because it is going to cost a fortune to have it. The rest of us are going to be forced to the "public option" That you will be taxed on.

That is if we still even have an economy by that point. They are going to need to pass Cap and Trade to be able to cover the added expense of it. Then we are all going to be in the poor house and even the "public option" will be too much to afford.

If people actually think for two seconds about what is coming down the pipe and if it passes we will have to start building this country from scratch because people are going to burn it down.

So while everybody that "wants" "Free" health care remember that somebody has to pay for it, and by the time it is all said and done, the refund checks will no longer be refunds, the gov will keep it.

That "free" health care is no longer "free" when the gov takes 15% of your check, with that amount of cash a year you can afford a damn good health care plan.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 



So went bankrupt then got pregnant.. ok


yep..thats the way the cookie crumbles..are you implying i am lying?

i assure you i am not... shortly after i had my son my wife got pregnant again...i just had my daughter...and am starting to rebuild my credit with the job i have been on for over a year now...still cant afford health insurance...

i am very grateful for the medicade that my state pays for...you wanna call me a leech...i could give a crap...i take care of my mother, my son, my daughter and my wife... i give my time and money that i can to charity and my mom who worked full 25 years civil service who never used her health care for herself once just canceled her policy..it didnt matter anyway because we moved out of the state it was good in...

so all the self-righteous people out there who want to point fingers... just remember your attitude now, and hopefully when you get in a rough situation those around you are going to do the same name calling and fingerpointing you are doing now ...pathetic and very un American



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by ohioriver



Hahahaha And while your at it tell them to stop eating and die ! How do you seriously think someone making minimum wage has any of those things. They can barely afford rent and utilities much less cable tv.



Okay, then get two jobs, further your education, whatever, it is your responsibility, no one elses. I am not college educated yet I am a sole provider. In the past I have done some of the hardest jobs in the world to make ends meet, it's all about personal responsibility.

Oh, and people making minimum wage deserve minimum wage IMHO. I made minimum wage when I was 14, and never again. Put in more effort, work as hard as you can, you can make it with determination and hard work.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 



Yes and Thomas Jefferson also said:

We are all doubtless bound to contribute a certain portion of our income to the support of charitable and other useful public institutions. But it is a part of our duty also to apply our contributions in the most effectual way we can to secure this object. The question then is whether this will not be better done by each of us appropriating our whole contribution to the institutions within our reach, under our own eye, and over which we can exercise some useful control? Or would it be better that each should divide the sum he can spare among all the institutions of his State or the United States? Reason and the interest of these institutions themselves, certainly decide in favor of the former practice.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 




In effect, it sucks. Medicaid is actually better than TRICARE - how scary is that?


And taking into account that, how medicaid and medicair is run (won't even talk about Social Securities short falls) and the HORRIFIC treatment regarding VA hospitals...

God.. I can only imagine how government health care will be. Especially when they find out even after taxing the hell out of us, it STILL won't be enough to cover it.

Remember people.. we cannot even fund the day to day government responsibilities.. let alone an added few trillion dollars! The Economy alone couldn't handle the shock of lowered purchasing power from consumers via new taxes let alone the effects of increased government debt for sale..



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by ohioriver
Reason and the interest of these institutions themselves, certainly decide in favor of the former practice.


I could never figure out the former/later thing.. I always end up choosing the wrong one.

And then reversing it the next time I come across the phrase.

I have former / later dyslexia



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


Thomas Jefferson, per the quote you provided, believed that we should have control over our taxes. Which is part of the reason even to this day we are allowed to appropriate a certain percentage of our taxes to institutions of our choice.. which is then deducted from your Federal tax obligations.

He believed the private sector took better care than government could ever dream of....

It's like comparing Government run VA Hospitals to privately run Shriners Hospitals. Which one is more respected? Which one offers better care? Which one is more prestigious?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 


Former: The question then is whether this will not be better done by each of us appropriating our whole contribution to the institutions within our reach, under our own eye, and over which we can exercise some useful control?


Latter: Or would it be better that each should divide the sum he can spare among all the institutions of his State or the United States?

Give charity to those organizations that you can watch over closely, locally is the preferred option in that quote.

NOT letting the .gov decide where your charitable donations should go



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ohioriver
 


Thomas Jefferson, per the quote you provided, believed that we should have control over our taxes. Which is part of the reason even to this day we are allowed to appropriate a certain percentage of our taxes to institutions of our choice.. which is then deducted from your Federal tax obligations.

He believed the private sector took better care than government could ever dream of....

It's like comparing Government run VA Hospitals to privately run Shriners Hospitals. Which one is more respected? Which one offers better care? Which one is more prestigious?


To add onto to what you said..

With Jefferson is there even a question as to which he would prefer?

A Fed Govt "charity insurance" , or insurance company with a dolphin as its CEO.

He would pick the dolphin



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 



I don't want to see it become the typical nanny state with a bunch of @!$* for citizens with their hands outstretched waiting for Uncle Sam to come along and give them what ever they need in exchange for money, obedience and silence.


neither do I...because I spoke up against someones generalizing statement of calling all those who have medicaid leeches the perception is this is what I am touting..

I already made it clear, I don't believ government should take over medicaid or whatever the state run programs are..I think for the poor it could be an alternative to help keep the insurance compaines in check...

you dont think they have taken advantage of people?

the wool is wrapped so tight around your eyes you cant see the light of day...

im not democrat and im not liberal, but i am willing to at least entertain the idea..listen to the proposal..people hear government health insurance and start to flip out..unjustifiabley...

remember..you have two ears and one mouth..do us a favor and exercise the ears for a bit...after you have heard what it is that needs to be said,,then feel free to open the gums and let them flap as loud as you can flap them



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Thanks.

I love the way they spoke back then.... the construction of their sentences.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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Hey OP...how's this sit with you? Maybe a bit exaggerated, but let's just say for kicks and grins, how is this going to turn out with government controlled healthcare. Now, remember, the healthcare coverage in this country is going to change from what it is now, so your wonderful medicaid isn't going to work the way it does now, if they pass this.

1: Jonny III., who is 6, falls on the playground and breaks his arm. He goes to the ER and waits for 4 hours, in pain, but eventually, they set his arm, throw on a cast and give him some aspirin and send him on his way. Hey, the kid's young and healthy and has his whole life in front of himin eight weeks, he goes and gets the cast removed, everything is fine except for the rash on his arm since he had to wear the cast an additional two weeks cause he had to wait for a doctor.

2: Jonny Sr. is 80 and has a massive heart attack. The doctor calls the government or goes by guidelines or however they decide to do it. Well, he's 80, he's lived a full life but we don't have a dr to do surgery and it would be too costly. Put him on a vent and in a room at the end of the hall and see how is does. Well, since he's so old and can't have bypass surgery or stints, or anything else, he has lost oxygen to his brain, his organs shut down and he's dead in two days - or - we'll do surgery but it will be three months before he can have it and he dies in the meantime.

Jonny Jr. is 40, and now he's lost his father, since he has an addicctive personality, the stress of losing his father is taking it's toll, so one night he as one too many pills to ward off the stress and oh no, taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Well, the decision makers of your medical care look at your record and say, well, he's OD'd before and he has had addictions, do we really want to spend much more on him? Give him an IV with fluids and see what happens. Well, Jr. is going to go in one of two ways. He's either going to live with perhaps some brain damage or he's going to die.

Which leaves Jonny III with no grandfather and maybe no father, or a father that can't take care of himself and is now a burden to his family because the government doesn't feel they need to do too much as he is ok sitting in his recliner staring into space.

Maybe a bit exaggerated, but honestly think about it.

So, two things to live by here, and they are true.

Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing and Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by mental modulator
And your post is the reason clucking chicken and booze don't mix.

I'm glad to pay for OP recovery!


Well good for you, because if you continued to read the thread, you would have learned that you payed for his addiction too.

Hope that one made you just as happy



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ohioriver
 


Thomas Jefferson, per the quote you provided, believed that we should have control over our taxes. Which is part of the reason even to this day we are allowed to appropriate a certain percentage of our taxes to institutions of our choice.. which is then deducted from your Federal tax obligations.

He believed the private sector took better care than government could ever dream of....

It's like comparing Government run VA Hospitals to privately run Shriners Hospitals. Which one is more respected? Which one offers better care? Which one is more prestigious?


If we do nothing, everyone will pay more. Premiums will rise. The insurance industry will become ever more greedy and ever more ready to deny coverage for the slightest previous health issue. I know. I count myself among those denied for pre-existing conditions because I had bad cramps. It literally ruined me even though I had my insurance for 2 years before I was diagnosed. There are many more like me. Can you honestly say that private health care is being run better than any government option?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:03 AM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


Um.. you could always just "pay the damn bill yourself"

No one is preventing you from getting anything.

Can you honestly say that once Nancy Pelosi has her paws in a gov destroyed system?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by VinceP1974
reply to post by ohioriver
 


Um.. you could always just "pay the damn bill yourself"

No one is preventing you from getting anything.

Can you honestly say that once Nancy Pelosi has her paws in a gov destroyed system?



And I suppose you have 20,000 to pay for your surgeries that you can just whip out anytime.LOL The point I was making is I had private insurance. I paid my premiums. The private insurance companies are out of control with greedy execs finding any excuse to deny claims. What good is private insurance when they refuse to pay for anything? And it is an industry wide problem. I would suggest that Miss Pelosi will not forever be in her office.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Another aspect not being discussed about this Government plan..

Let's assume it passes, and millions jump onto the Government insurance plans... it's safe to assume millions will also drop private coverage and join such a plan as well. For every person that drops from the insurance companies pool of premiums, the premiums for everyone else will sky rocket.


Ok: lets summarize this into one sentence and use general instead of specific terms ok?

Decrease in Demand will cause an increase in prices.

...

Oh: and supply stays the same, and the good isn't scarce (you can always print more policies)

Don't think that that ever happened in the history of economics.





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