Originally posted by iamjesusphish
Where on earth have you people taken this thread? the Iraq war... come on now... this thread is about health care for americans and my own testimony as to how it saved my life. Yes I am a recovering drug addict. Yes it was started on pain meds, yes i have an addictive personality, yes i am 23 and yes I believe i know more about life then some of you in this thread that may be double my age. Come on now, every American deserves health insurance... please get rid of your not my tax dollar mentalities and realize your tax dollars bailed out the banks and the auto industry. So its ok for corporations to receive your taxes but not your fellow americans... I am disgusted by some of you...

So you switch advocating one dependency for another.

Kick the habit.. stop seeking enablers.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs


more idiocy...having my own business and creating jobs for others but not being able to afford a health insurance without huge deductables measn I shouldnt have kids??...again, and I hate to be redundant. your full of it.

If you are successful enough to have your own business, it should be no problem for you to save some of your money to pay for health care. I am no where near rich, in fact I am lower middle class, yet my entire family of four has insurance.

It's called sacrifices. I make less than $50k a year, and I can afford it for four people. I have to cut back on things, and not buy things that are not necessities, but I can afford it. How someone can claim they cannot is incomprehensible to me. Turn of the TV, quit paying for cable, quit making a car payment, cell phone payment, whatever, you CAN get health care if you make the right decisions.

To the OP;

Buck up. You're 23, go to school, go do manual labor if you have to, but it's up to you man, no one else. That's a lesson I had to learn on my own. My mother and father are both in worse economical situations than myself so anything I want or need for my family I take care of. I am just a few years older than you, yet I provide for a family of four man. Time to toughen up, and bite the bullet.

Also, I was in the same situation as you man. I got in a serious accident at 18 and couldn't work for 2-3 years. They had me drugged up on hyrdo, and oxi, but I eventually turned down the drugs because they made me feel so bad. I didn't get addicted, and if you did, it's not my fault. Don't make me partly responsibile for your actions, please.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

Originally posted by open_eyeballs

The average cost for delivery is $6250

Not for a c-section there guy...

"false argument"

Even with a C-Section the increase is only an average of $2K Still WAY LESS than your number that you pulled out of a hat.

But it is easy to understand that you wouldn't know the actual costs, since you didn't have to pay them, other taxpayers did.

What in the hell are you talking about?? You havent a clue.. even service member familiesa re fully covered... cared for by other service members??that doesn tmake a lick of sense...

Considering that I am a Veteran, I think I know even better than you do. Not to mention that I was in the Medical Corps while I was active duty.

Military doctors, nurses and other medical professionals work in military hospitals. They are all on active duty, just like the people they serve.

Oh and for that family coverage... that's called TRICARE, and I promise you, if .gov run insurance ends up being like TRICARE, NO ONE will be happy with it.

There was once a time when military families could be treated at the same military hospitals as service members. That has been phased out since TRICARE came into action. TRICARE is also partly subsidized by the states that service TRICARE patients (mostly places where there is a large military presence). It has deductibles and co-pays, limits of coverage, and extremely long waits for even routine care.

It is basically sub-standard employer provided insurance.

In effect, it sucks. Medicaid is actually better than TRICARE - how scary is that?

There is NO WAY you were owning your own business and employing people AND receiving Medicaid at the same time.

Now, you are putting words in my mouth..nowhere did my post say that...

i recieve medicaid now...i havent owned my business for almost 2 years...it helped us big time when we could not afford any alternative...

So explain then, your first post stated that if it were not for Medicaid you would not have your son or daughter, and your wife's C-section would not have been paid for.

Am I to understand that you waited until after you lost (or sold) your business and had to get public assistance to have children??? Therefore your children are currently under 2 yrs old?

If that is the case, welcome to being a member of the leech nation.

i went to the emergency room and medicaid paid the bill later...pretty simple...really...its not difficult

Then why present it as if your toe was going to rot off? Why not simply state that you had a bad injury that was treated? It's your words I am working from.

You were the one saying I was "full of it", yet you are the one back-peddling on your own statements.

If you are going to argue FOR National Health Insurance, at least do so honestly

Since the topic of Jefferson quotes came up. Here are musings on the dangers of democracy, the dangers of confusing charity and government , and the eventual end to those who think the economic rules of the world don't apply to them..


Thomas Jefferson has said:

Mankind soon learn to make interested uses of every right and power which they possess, or may assume. The public money and public liberty, intended to have been deposited with three branches of magistracy, but found inadvertently to be in the hands of one only, will soon be discovered to be sources of wealth and dominion to those who hold them; distinguished, too, by this tempting circumstance, that they are the instrument, as well as the object of acquisition. With money we will get men, said Caesar, and with men we will get money. Nor should our assembly be deluded by the integrity of their own purposes, and conclude that these unlimited powers will never be abused, because themselves are not disposed to abuse them. They should look forward to a time, and that not a distant one, when a corruption in this, as in the country from which we derive our origin, will have seized the heads of government, and be spread by them through the body of the people; when they will purchase the voices of the people, and make them pay the price.

Ben Franklin
When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic

Jeffferson
Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction.

John Adams
no good government but what is republican... the very definition of a republic is 'an empire of laws, and not of men.'

Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

John C. Calhoun
The government of the absolute majority is but the government of the strongest interests; and when not effectively checked, is the most tyrannical and oppressive that can be devised... [To read the Constitution is to realize that] no free system was ever farther removed from the principle that the absolute majority, without check or limitation, ought to govern.

Charles Carroll
Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.

James Madison
Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.

Daniel Webster
Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.

John Adams
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide

Ben Franklin
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!


Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.


H. L. Mencken in The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

That day has come.