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I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Remember this: Not everyone has to have been in the same boat as he was and getting Medicaid. It would be nice if you and everyone else with the attitude would listen up to the basic message that is trying to be presented. It seems the moment this stuff is brought up, a 'bad' example is thrust in everyone's face as though it were the only type of case we're ever going to see. Remember too: You're own insurance, that you already pay for with you're sweat and aching back, also pays for those who have made the mistakes of drug addiction and other 'atrocities' that you condemn like outcasts in a so-called classless society. You don't complain about that, do you? Then why do you do it with this? I'm curious.

Paz




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Everyone has exxagerated the intention of the health care bill to the point it is unrecognizable. You take something that is intended to be good and paint it and paint it with so many coats that it becomes some mutated, distorted fierce monster designed to kill and suck the life out of the good citizens of the united states.

It is utterly perposterous.

It is simple. It was designed to help ailing people less fortunate than yourselves, and provide an option for all of us. There might be people who are struggling to pay their premiums every month who would opt for this.

Why? why? why do this? Because believe it or not, it's the right thing to do.

Clearly, you don't want to share. And as I have stated somewhere else on this thread, if I ever needed public assistance, which I am well aware *but for the Grace of God go I,* I would not want to swallow a single aspirin your contribution went toward. I do have pride, as we all do, and certainly would not want to take anything from anyone who resented helping others such as you here.

But I honestly don't believe you are truely this greedy over a few dollars. You have another agenda, which is the main agenda. And that is to see that this administration fails in every effort it makes, no matter how hard he tries, or what he proposes. This is small-mindedness in the most childish and hateful way imaginable.

You know what I'm saying is true. It's the other agenda you want to see carried out. Not just smashing this little twitty reform.

[edit on 8/18/0909 by ladyinwaiting]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by realshanti
 


So let me get this straight.

I have a family member who USED to work, have a job, and make a decent salary about 20 years ago. Then he got fired from his job (for suspected theft), and got a giant chip on his shoulder.

He never tried for another job again. Him and his wife went on welfare with 3 children.

Later, as those benefits started to expire (and the oldest kid moved out), suddenly he had severe back problems. The first doctors he went to said nothing was wrong, then after shopping around he found a doctor who agreed with him. Several surgeries later, he finally DID screw up his back enough to qualify for permanent disability and will forever receive disability funds.

His wife during this time? She got one job at a shoe factory. She was employed oh, 6 months. She got fired because she called in sick over 30 times during that period, and she wonders why they fired her.

After that, together they sat at my parents kitchen table, and told us how bad of people we are because we are successful. That everything in their life that is wrong is because of our lifestyle. That they are .. get this 'entitled to the same type of lifestyle me and my parents enjoy' without having to work for it. Clearly stating that obviously everything was handed to us on a silver platter, so why can't they get it handed to them as well?

And you, have the AUDACITY to tell me we have no evidence of leeching and fraud? Really? Part of my family lives by leeching and fraud. I don't need statistics, I can prove it by pointing right to them.

And I'm NOT alone in that regard either. Everyone I know has family members that resemble black sheep. You're either ignorant or intentionally blind if you can't see it.

Oh and before you go pointing out scripture, you should ALSO point out that Paul said specifically those who do not work, do not eat -- you know that very little quoted scripture in 2 Thessalonians 3. You might also want to refresh your memory on physical problems in which God did not mandate me to pay for your health care, but instead told Paul that God's grace was sufficient. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9

Hmmm, grace or universal health care. I'll chose grace behind door #1.

As far as my wallet? Stay out of it. Already my marginal tax rate is over 30% (thanks California!), whereas money earned is being taken without my representation for Medicare, Medical, SS, wars, continued impingements of my civil liberties and other monstrosities our founding fathers had NO intention of associating with our nation. Thats not including gas taxes, electric taxes, sales tax, water taxes, VRF's, etc etc. And *GASP* I can still afford health care.

As redhatty pointed out, that OP's ACTIONS caused leeching of my tax dollars to pay for HIS assistance. I have NO responsibility for him or how he screwed up his own life and health. I have sympathy for Spina Bifida guy because he was born with it, but I have to ask the question did his biological mother have diabetes, or gestational diabetes? If so, then HER actions with uncontrolled high blood sugar are the cause and blame.

Look people, it's simple. It's called personal accountability and responsibility. Instead of passing the buck, go look in the mirror and realize that you, and you alone are the reason you can't fund your own health care. Instead of passing notes to your BFF on how cute Bobbette's dress is today, or how you melt with Bob's smile in highschool -- maybe you should have achieved high academic scores and paved your way to college.

I did it, why can't you? I know the answer. Pure unadulterated slothfulness, and no I won't take your excuses on why you couldn't.

Your day of reckoning will come, particularly when people like me finally do pull an Atlas Shrugged. Good luck funding all this with other leeches and sloths when we say enough is enough.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Not Authorized
reply to post by realshanti

..suddenly he had severe back problems. The first doctors he went to said nothing was wrong, then after shopping around he found a doctor who agreed with him. Several surgeries later, he finally DID screw up his back enough to qualify for permanent disability and will forever receive disability funds.


Wow..this man was so eager for disability checks that he shopped around until he found several doctors willing to perform multiple unneccessary spinal surgeries, crippling him and likely confining him to a life of chronic pain?

..geez, what people will do for a disability check! What a leech!

Honestly...I hope the years are merciful to you and you live in stellar health through all your life...and if tragedy or challenge comes upon you...may you be blessed with family to support you as "sympathetic" as yourself.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Not Authorized
 


You probably dont give a rats patootie what I have to say but here goes - I did not say there were no leeches and fraud - I simply pointed out that the numbers which seem to strike such fear into some hearts and cause so much pain were not cited on this thread - anywhere - yet many are sure that this number must be astronomical - hey maybe it is - show me...

I paid into this system for forty years - and had a catastrophic illness - lost my job, my car, my apartment, my insurance, my ability to walk, and my kidneys [from a childhood illness that finally took its toll]- Does that make me a leech?Some on here would say yes and that I am stealing their money.

The thing I object to is that some folk on here would have simply let me die according to their philosophy of "I pay my bills, am personally responsible for myself and if you need help tough luck, there's a park bench with your name on it" - Sorry but to me that is the opposite of Grace and comes from the "other" place. And I called them on that attitude. And have been accused of some terrible heresy for even mentioning it....Grace comes from God through people - it is through the principle of Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...and love thy neighbor as thy self...without the support of my fellow citizens I would not be on a park bench but in the grave....

I have all my life put my money where my mouth is....if my brother has a legitimate need and I can help I do so...now I am the one on the receiving and I am grateful for it... I do not understand the unkindness, the ruthlessness of some of the posters on here - it troubles me and I spoke out- I'm one of those people that figures if someone is stealing or frauding others - it will be revealed and consequences will follow either in this life or the next where all will have to make an accounting...

I was taught that to care for others is to care for Christ...and to judge not lest ye be judged - meaning do not condemn others...but the condemnation of others seems to be a popular sport here on ATS - your experiences left you with a bad taste and I understand - but that person who had the surgeries so he could go on disability is not right in the head, and I would venture to say is paying for his adventures in medicine in a most terrible way...so while I don't condone his actions I won't condemn him - that's for a higher court....

I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from - humility is something I am still learning and if I come off too critical of others that's a shortcoming I admit.

In the meantime the issue of "am I my brother's keeper?" will probably not go away anytime soon since its been debated and struggled over for many thousands of years so far..
Peace

PS: And I will quote scripture all I want and when I want which isn't very often but you inspired me


[edit on 18-8-2009 by realshanti]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


I have plenty of compassion for my fellow man, I have no compassion for people who play the "poor, poor, pitiful me" routine.

And I have no stomach for leeches who fight to defend their leech activity.

It IS a cruel world, sounds like you need to tough up.


This is one of the best quotes ever....

I have compassion....I do I really do!!!


Now get out of my way you soft poor weak grubby leach.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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Its funny that people have a problem helping those that need no matter what the situation lazy or not....we pay taxes yes...and this being a country which people say is christian yet act so un-christian like...we complain about making our citizens live longer, old and young....but we don't complain about where most of our taxes go....and this is just a small amount compared to the total amount of taxes we pay...we feel better paying of people and agencies that rob us blind because they are in the politicians pockets...or because the media feeds most ignorant people crap and they believe what they hear....we are a fat greedy un-healthy nation and all we want is more money for ourselves to make us lazy and be able to afford more unhealthy food that our taxes pay to the fda to say what is healthy for us to eat....if anybody should be complaining about its the fda and the pharma companies where allot more taxes go to...then we could all be healthy and not need to worry needing some much care....i pay taxes i have private care but worked hard for my station in life....but i never and would never look at or judge someone for there station in life..i don't know there story and don't really care too...it is what it is...we are americans and we don't ever and i mean ever leave anyone of us behind that's why we are strong and the best nation to ever exist on this planet...and to continue this we have to think a different way....the rich will always exist the poor will always be there but we are nothing without the other....we don't need to follow the example of past nations that failed before it could achieve its true glory...But as soon as we forget those that are truly what makes us who we are....we all go the way of the DODO!!!! and we will be in the next great nation's history book...



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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I love Mexicans as long as they come to this country legally, pay their taxes, and do their dues just as I.

I love people on welfare who are seriously trying to get back on their feet because they want to help, not leech.

I love every person who gives their most (whether they say they are or not is a different story) to live a nice life, without affecting me to much.

You know what I hate?

I hate Illegal Mexicans who cross without acquiring citizenship, paying no taxes, and raping benefits.

I hate people on welfare who expect to be on it the rest of their life.

I hate any person who thinks they can live off of my sweat, or any workers sweat.

My point? A lot of you guys are making GREAT points for both sides...yet you do not see the other. The reason I am OPPOSED to government health care is not because there are those who work full time yet can not afford it...yet there are those who would abuse it to worlds end, and that number exceeds the before mentioned.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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Here is something to think about.
The Medicare and medicaid fund is about to dry up.
This health care reform will cost billions if not, dare I say trillions.
Well I did find out where the money is comming from in an e-mail from my senator. “”This program would be
funded, in part, by increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners,
establishing a tax on stock and bond transactions,"" "" and a progressive excise tax on self-employment and payroll income.”“
Payroll income, that is After the top 5% of earners did you notice that? Which obviously means tax hikes on the rest of us too. If they are going to do that then wouldn't it be better to put funds into the existing programs? Wouldn't that be cheaper, and it would leave the rest of the people with the health care insurance that they already have.

Something else I would like to point out.
Low income people have had Medicaid and Medicare to rely on. And I would bet if you look, as I did, there are probably several Free Clinics in your area for those that don't have insurance and don't qualify for public insurance. I would rather see the Gov. raise the income level to include "the working poor" rather than revamp the Whole healthcare system.
Any thoughts?



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by 11b1p

[]



you got hooked on pharms, nice to see my tax dollars at work becitsause you have no self control. , and get a better job

People like you are such idiots, maybe the people in the health care field(like yourself) need to show seif control and stop writting pain meds like they're candy, they're the ones who get people hooked so they can have repeat customers, as far as "now go get a better job" some people don't have it so easy, think before you speak.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by TheAftermath
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Copy and paste a comment of mine in which I claimed I was better than anyone.


When you cant find it, I'll be waiting here for you to feed you a big crap sandwich with a side of humility.

Evidently you were a product of the public school system.
well, that right there, you obviously went to private school and are saying anyone who went to public school isn't as smart as you, therefore not as good.
Go figure, the same person who hates public health care, slams public school, you are for all things private, you probably love the privately run federal reserve, live in a private gated community in a house that your daddy got for you, sit there and talk about how everyone else are the dregs, people like you are the bums, living off daddys' money and trust funds, I bet not a single one of your family has ever served this country, yet act like you own it.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by joe82
 


You could make that bet, but you would be wrong.


I live off of my own money, served 6 years in the U.S. Army (3rd/187th).

I do live in a gated community for one simple reason: The nice areas in Las Vegas are all new and 90% of them are within gated communities.

It isnt a secret that public schools are a joke, and very few people come out actually possessing something even remotely close to intelligence.

If you read any more of that thread, you would have also seen me say I was at the bottom just a few years ago (Living in my car in Phoenix. In July.) I got my crap together, started my own small business, and I now employ 8 people and do pretty well for myself and my family.

Your assumptions do nothing more than make you look like an ignorant horses ass.

You make it very easy for someone like me to make you out to be the fool you truly are.

Keep up the good work.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by TheAftermath]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by joe82
 




Evidently you were a product of the public school system. well, that right there, you obviously went to private school and are saying anyone who went to public school isn't as smart as you, therefore not as good.


I went to Catholic school, then to Public school.

Public school was a joke. No.. it was worse than a joke.. it may have been after 60% of the school failed the first round of standardized tests that I gave up on the future of this country.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by joe82
 




Evidently you were a product of the public school system. well, that right there, you obviously went to private school and are saying anyone who went to public school isn't as smart as you, therefore not as good.


I went to Catholic school, then to Public school.

Public school was a joke. No.. it was worse than a joke.. it may have been after 60% of the school failed the first round of standardized tests that I gave up on the future of this country.



I went to Catholic school and then public school too.

I was always testing 98 99% percentile in those standardized tests



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Im happy my taxes help pay some medical costs for people in need. I wouldn't mind if I had a little higher taxes to help people with medical costs as well.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by jonSUN
 


You know you can send in extra right? No need to pass a law forcing me to pay more, why dont you just send in an extra 50% or whatever amount you need to feel better about yourself.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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It's amazing to read and view some of the many reponds...for those of you who cry out for something FREE better read the fine print. Fools rush in.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
It is utterly perposterous.


What is proposterous is that you assume this bill is really trying to help people. news.yahoo.com...

I can understand that assumption if you have not read the bill, but anyone with an IQ above 100 can see that this is about more Govt control, and money for the Big O's friends. Honestly, have you even read the bill in it's entirety?

First finance industry, next auto industry, now they want our health care industry.

How much freedom are you willing to sacrifice, and how much control over our lives are you willing to give the Govt?

I do not agree with increasing taxes on EVERYONE to take care of people who will not take care of themselves.






[edit on 19-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

[edit on 19-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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Look at what this arrogant asss said, being reported today:





“We are God’s partners in matters of life and death,” Obama went on to say, according to Moline’s real-time stream.



If Sarah Palin said anything close to this, the Center for American Regress would have their propaganda network in hyper-active mode right now trying to destroy her with it.


That's why you can't take anything Leftists complain about seriously. The things they complain about are only a problem when other people do them.. when the Left does them, there's no issue



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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Consider this:

Food is far more important than healthcare, but it is affordable because the market exchange and minimal amounts of regulation (imagine portability and not being to transfer meat from one state to the next). There are 2 ways to get food. The first is by growing it and putting forth the effort to cultivate the land (or raise the animals). The second is by having a job and earning money to buy it through some sort of market exchange system. We don't see anything wrong with this because there is no other way to do this.

Healthcare is far less important than food, but it isn't affordable because the market exchange is heavily regulated (portability, individual tax deductions non-existent, etc) and for many other reasons (litigation, lack of machinery, lack of physicians as the country grows, etc). There are 2 ways we get healthcare. The first is by having a job to receive benefits (can cover family too and out of work COBRA covers for a period of time). The second is by earning money to buy through some sort of market exchange. Why do we see this as a problem, but not how food is obtained?

Just like food, you do not have a right to healthcare. Canadians, British and anyone else under a Universal healthcare program do not have a right to healthcare either. This is because the government has the right to healthcare and decides what is right for you. Depending on costs, depending on availability of equipment, the government has final say who gets treated and who doesn't. Not you.

People take medicare for granted, mainly because our private system is so damn good (and I agree, some regulations need to be made, but real fixes), they don't see the effect of a true Public or Universal care option. It's a moot point to argue "free" healthcare for all when the "for profit" system is currently in place or available to anyone. "For Profit" is the key to success and without it, there are few incentives to create drugs, to become doctors and build hospitals. Yes, this is arguable, if and only if, for profit wasn't innovating, trying to cover their butts from litigious lawsuits, and trying experimentation.

This should be obvious: You can't compete with "free." Over the long-term, anything that costs money will die. When the free system is overloaded, then and only then will people understand that there has to be a "for profit" system.

Americans want the right to determine what is best for them and their family, not what the government wants for them.

EDIT: Grammar.. sorry.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Buckwylds]



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