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I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

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posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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I strongly believe in this line from the "Declaration of Independence":

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Is this not the very bedrock upon which our country was SUPPOSED to have been founded upon? THAT is what bothers me, certain people feel that other certain people are NOT allowed these things largely because others have been less fortune than themselves. It almost smacks of caste system sympathetic leanings.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]




posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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I keep hearing this word from Red Hatty..PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

What does this mean, lets examine this, shall we?



IT it is written in the Talmud (Rabbinical writings of the 1 ~ 6 centuries AD), "A man may not be responsible for his actions in an hour of tribulation and pain."

On the other hand, if you are racked with pain, saddled with poverty, or deprived of other blessings most take for granted, use your experience to have compassion for those who are even worst off than you, but do not use your burdens as excuses to remain in a negative frame of mind.

You have enough problems already; don't add to them by endlessly complaining, for that only entrenches them deeper into your life. Rather, look for the good, appreciate it, and take responsibility by making the most of what you have.

Happiness is a choice, just like misery is; we all have the responsibility to make the right choices. We owe it to ourselves to do so. © Chuck Gallozzi For more articles and contact information, Visit www.personal-development.com...


PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS NOTHING OTHER THAN THE FREEDOM TO CREATE OUR OWN LIVES. That being said..it does not give anyone the right to judge, belittle or put oneself in higher esteem than a fellow human being.

I mentioned in an earlier post that becoming addicted to pain killers is something alot of people have done. Including Elizabeth Taylor, and it seems now, Michael Jackson. I believe even Betty Ford had addiction problems, am I right? It happens, and Im sure the people that it has happened to, didnt want this to happen.

I myself am in chronic pain, I have degenerative disk disease. I take nothing stronger than Tylenol but only because I cant function under pain meds. But not taking pain meds makes some days worthless as I can only sit or lay down the whole day. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking pain meds if need be. Becoming addicted does happen. The OP is an unfortunate that it happened to.
Everyone has personal responsibility, even the OP. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS NOTHING OTHER THAN THE FREEDOM TO CREATE OUR OWN LIVES.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I've never bitched about elitists, you must have me confused with someone else who has continually proven you wrong.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Are you now, or have you ever been on any form of public assistance?

humor me, whats your income range? About 28k?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by dzonatas
Sure community service is one way to do such, but you say "made to perform" and that is slavery, so anotherwords you justified slavery in return for health care, and that is not socialism but it is more like communism.


Huh??? I'm a slaver now that I would like to see those physically able to do so perform community service in proportion to the amount of medical treatment they received for FREE???? I don't claim to be a socialist nor a communist or for that matter pro slavery. If you think it's slavery to expect someone to pay in some manner for goods and services received, if they are capable of doing so, then by all means call me a slaver. I see nothing wrong with having someone work off their debt to society, but equating that with slavery, I think you better do some more research. I suppose the "work for welfare or workfare" programs are slavery as well? So much for that "teaching a man to fish" thing eh, better just to give him a free lifetime supply of fish caught my his neighbors.

Unreal.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by TheAftermath
 


Proven me wrong you say?
Mighty high opinion of your one or two sentence attacks you have been posting with the same silly dogma repeated ad nausum. Might I also add I did not say you did, I merely stated you no longer had the right to if so you so chose to.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Yummy Freelunch
 


maybe, just maybe you should have read some of the other links that came up in your google search of "personal responsibility"

like this one www.schaefersblog.com...

which just happens to have a really good quote in it


Justice Casey Percell said, “It is not the responsibility of the government or the legal system to protect a citizen from himself.“


Or maybe this result www.livestrong.com...
which provides a list of items that "define" personal responsibility


* Acknowledging that you are solely responsible for the choices in your life.
* Accepting that you are responsible for what you choose to feel or think.
* Accepting that you choose the direction for your life.
* Accepting that you cannot blame others for the choices you have made.
* Tearing down the mask of defense or rationale for why others are responsible for who you are, what has happened to you and what you are bound to become.
* The rational belief that you are responsible for determining who your are, and how your choices affect your life.
* Pointing the finger of responsibility back to yourself and away from others when you are discussing the consequences of your actions.
*Realizing that you determine your feelings about any events or actions addressed to you, no matter how negative they seem.
* Recognizing that you are your best cheerleader; it is not reasonable or healthy for you to depend on others to make you feel good about yourself.
* Recognizing that as you enter adulthood and maturity, you determine how your self-esteem will develop.
* Not feeling sorry for the "bum deal" you have been handed but taking hold of your life and giving it direction and reason.
* Letting go of your sense of over responsibility for others.
* Protecting and nurturing your health and emotional well being.
* Taking preventive health oriented steps of structuring your life with time management, stress management, confronting fears and burnout prevention.
* Taking an honest inventory of your strengths, abilities, talents, virtues and positive points.
* Developing positive, self-affirming, self-talk scripts to enhance your personal development and growth.
* Letting go of blame and anger toward those in your past who did the best they could, given the limitations of their knowledge, background and awareness.
* Working out anger, hostility, pessimism and depression over past hurts, pains, abuse, mistreatment and misdirection.


but, I know, those results didn't make you FEEL GOOD, did they?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


You are the absolute last person who should be whining about perceived attacks, thats all you seem to do here.

Now on to my other question.

I will ask for the 2nd time.

Are you now, or have you ever been on any form of public assistance?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 



My post described PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, nothing more nothing less, ty



 

Mod Note: Excessive Quoting – Please Review This Link

[edit on Sun Aug 16 2009 by Jbird]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
It amazes me how much people who oppose universal health care lack empathy for there fellow man. Any government program can and will be abused, by a minority, but the majority will benefit from it.

And I will add this, if you are a christian and vehemently oppose universal health care perhaps you have forgotten the story related by Jesus about the good Samaritan. It is a story about not just helping your fellow man but helping them when they were physically hurt, at cost to ourselves.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan



25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" 28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." 29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

30In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' 36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" 37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."


Any christian that is fighting against universal health care should be ashamed of themselves for going against Jesus teachings, represented here by this parable showing compassion should shown to our fellow man even if it costs us personally.

Why so many conservative Christians are against this baffles me really, maybe they would rather have there tax dollars spent on our armies being deployed abroad that is costing billions, rather than help their fellow American.


[edit on 15-8-2009 by Blue_Jay33]




So Christians should all line up and give unto Caesars what is Caesars huh? Well the last time I checked We didn't have a Caesar and the constitution guaranteed Me the fruits of my labor.

Another point as a Christian I have a big problem with giving money to the government so irresponsible people can have abortions on demand. If You haven't noticed We have a crisis coming up in this country and it has something to do with more old people than working people? I wonder how on earth We ever got to this point ? Hmmmmm Could abortion and birth control be one of the problems that caused this?


And You also fail to understand the difference between taxing someone to death to provide social services and CHARITY... The last time I helped out my so called fellow man it felt pretty good. I have no problems giving to charity especially if I see its effect on a family right then and there. What I have a problem is the ghostly hand of government that STEALS my wages and then hands them out to another class of people whom are dependent on these services and thus render votes to steal more money...

You liberals amaze me I seriously think You are just envious of people that SUPPOSEDLY have better lives than You. You have the attitude Hell if I can't get ahead no one else should also... The problem is healthcare is too expensive ... So please in Your oh so sanctimonious intelligence please tell me how government insurance is going to make it cheaper? The last time I did research part of the problem was the healthcare industry does not follow free market principals. The government goes so far as to manage the numbers of doctors so they can all charge higher prices. The last time I checked into that it was called a guild. So if that is the case wouldn't it make more since to increase the numbers of doctors and then attack the insurance and pharmaceutical companies? But oh no We have to tax the rich.....



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by dzonatas
Sure community service is one way to do such, but you say "made to perform" and that is slavery, so anotherwords you justified slavery in return for health care, and that is not socialism but it is more like communism.


Huh??? I'm a slaver now that I would like to see those physically able to do so perform community service in proportion to the amount of medical treatment they received for FREE????
[...]
Unreal.


Guess that AIR you breath for FREE is just as unreal. Bottomline point made above...

I know people who have worked 2 jobs fulltime. That easily equals more than 80 hours a week, every week, for more than a year. The government snatches all their income because they are non-custodial parents. They are not criminals, as the custodial decision is only made by the whim of a judge. They can't afford healthcare because of the wages be snatch up. They can't afford many things you think a 2 FT income would bring in.

They can't work another shift... as that would cut into their 4 hours of sleep a day, if they even get that much.

They don't get to enjoy their kids, because they spend their time either at work or asleep.

You only relate to people who are poor and can't afford healthcare.

I just gave you a VERY REAL CASE of what non-custodial parents go through and they still can't afford decent health care.

Open you eyes. Go pay for the air you breath.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by TheAftermath
 


Frankly Aftermath that is none of your buisness but, no I have never accepted government assistance. But it is supremely showing that you in your absolutist cocoon think that because I am defending those less better off than me out of compassion that it must mean I am fighting for my own entitlements as well. Which I am not. You, of course will say I am lying and that I have alterior motive, which is fine. I could ultimately care less what you think as you have already shown yourself for what you are and the length through which you will go through to justify yourself and your high and mighty assesement of yourself and others. But I will say this, you don't know thing one about what of what you are talking about.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Oh no, far from ignorant. I have seen many a people who are addicted to pharma drugs. It is still a CHOICE you made.


So, when your private health insurer rescinds your cover, it will be your CHOICE to have paid premiums for cover that doesn't exist?


Just because a pain killer is prescribed does NOT MEAN you HAVE to take it.


No, and when the doctor recommends you stop a particular activity, it's your CHOICE to follow his advice, that does NOT MEAN you HAVE to stop doing it.


There are ways to learn to deal with pain that can reduce the amount of drugs you need to manage it, but again, that too is a CHOICE.

You choose to pollute your body, with whatever substance, legally prescribed or not, rather than choosing to find a healthier alternative.

And you realize that you simply further my point. Once again you reinforce how your bad choices are subsidized by my tax dollars, as I (and other taxed americans) paid not only for the doctor visits, but for your prescriptions too. Our money fed your addiction.


And your money also prolongs the life of every asthmatic in need of an inhaler...but it's their CHOICE to pollute their bodies with cortico-steroids...


having someone come right out and state that you are an example of the nation of leeches IS SUPPOSED TO BOTHER YOU,


Of course it is, but it still takes a special kind of ignorance.


but you go ahead, defend your position and rationalize away the FACT that you are an example of an American Leech.


No, no, no. The American Leeches are those that send citizens off to "service", then deny them proper life-long payment afterward for the damage that service did to them. The American Leeches are those that refuse to extend basic human values of decency and kindness to their fellow citizens. The American Leeches are those who effectively deny first world human rights to their fellow citizens, while maintaining a lifestyle of comfort from the exploitation of those citizens.


Because as long as it makes YOU feel better, it's all okay, right??


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Having a tax liability higher than the money they take out of your paycheck is being a REAL taxpayer.


And wouldn't it be interesting for the IRS to publish the taxes paid by all those industrialists, media commentators and health insurance CEOs currently arguing against any kind of public health insurance...You know, after their deductions, write-offs, negative gearings and donations...

The American Leeches are the ones that take decades of health insurance premiums and then, when it is actually needed, "rescind" health insurance coverage that has been bought and paid for.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


You could argue that several ways.

Anti-abortion.

Anti-death penalty.

Anti-war.

Pro-healthcare.

Pro-keeping the plug in.

Etc.

Really, you can look at "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and say that we have all of these now.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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One thing I've learned from this thread without a doubt is that unless we have some type of evolutionary leap that allows us to collectively share our life experiences in some realistic way, we will never create a peaceful society and we may well be doomed to go the way of the dinosaur.

I have read nearly all the comments and I have agreed with all of them at various points in my life. Rarely have I been convinced to change my point of view via debate, though I have gotten better with age, it has always taken the experience to understand the why. I have to assume that applies to most everyone else and that would explain the repetitive nature of history we experience as humans.

How can we ever hope to solve the problems in our world when the answers die with each generation? I couldn't condemn a single poster on this thread without knowingly becoming a gigantic hypocrite.

Maybe these problems were never meant to be solved? Maybe the frustration of debating so many varing points of view is some kind of insanity we all suffer. Trapped in bodies with five senses to experience a world full of incurable violence and suffering. Watching our meat prisons deteriorate as we age, our minds and memories slowly fading. Having to suffer the horrible sense of isolation and loneliness as our friends and family die over the years until we ourselves die alone in some unseen place away from society's view.

Or perhaps we are an eternal mind in the midst of a nightmare. Who knows?

Good night all,



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I dont think of myself as high and mighty. You should really stop assuming, it makes you look even less intelligent than you have proven yourself to be.

I am responsible. I pay for my own health insurance and for my family's.

Responsiblity is something you obviously know nothing about.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by TheAftermath
 


And that sets you above those you call leeches despite truly understanding their circumstances....... Your statement that you do not consider yourself above *high and mighty* others alone shows how you do.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I've been at the very bottom. Did what it took to pull myself up and now I do pretty well.

The difference is I relied on myself as opposed to the government like the parasites do.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by TheAftermath]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by TheAftermath
 


Ah, so you feel you have a right to feel "high and mighty". That because further misfortune did not strike you down and allowed you to pull yourself up *with help from someone I have no doubt if not governmental sources, some people have absolutely no one who will help them from birth* that anyone else who did not is not is parasitical in nature. Rrriiggghhttt. Can you not see the problems with that line of thought?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


You seem to have an issue with calling them what they are. Why? truth a little too painful to bear?

Life isnt fair, and it is not a function of government to make it that way.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by TheAftermath]



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