I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

affordable healthcare is a right for any human being. IMO medicare should be extended to anyone who doesn't care for or can't afford to get private insurance, with an obvious income cap to avoid people making "a lot" of money profiting off the system. it should also be mandatory for all taxpayers to pay into the health system - either private or medicare.

people like me will still buy private insurance because we like to get the best out there. i never spare any money when it comes to food or healthcare. there are many families out there who liked their private coverage until they got laid off and could not afford that insurance anymore (COBRA tends to be a lot more than the employer subsidized premium). i'm sure those families learn first hand how good their private employer based insurance system really is.

in fact if there will be a mandate of insurance with medicare available to all, most will choose private insurance and private insurers will make a lot more money than they do now! of course the mandate to cover any pre-existing condition and never drop anyone will eat into their profits but it will be an overall gain from the healthy young new customers who are now mandated to buy insurance.

no system will be perfect but shooting down any idea ("just say no" sounds familiar?) is a worse thing still. there are those who are naturally afraid of any change who get their news from the fear mongering outlets and don't have the mental ability to read at least one of those proposed bill drafts. instead they rely on twitter posts because 160 characters is probably the most they can digest in a sentence...

reply to post by redhatty


You know, for some reason or other I think this issue is bringing out the worst in all of us. Redhatty, I've read your posts in other threads, and I know how smart you are, and how savvy you are in financial matters.

What separates us here, is the essence of the issue. The heart of the matter. And to me it's not money. The few tax dollars taken from me will be scarely noticable, to me or anybody else. And if it turns out that it is more than I knew......well then I'll know it's worth it. (No need to post those projections/figures/precentages--it was done last night, I didn't believe it then and I won't believe it again tonight.) That is a "wait and see" issue and you know it. By no means are those figures carved in stone, far from it.

I don't want to enable drug addicts, or encourage further dependency on the government. Will it happen? Sure. People lie about how many people live in their household so they can get more food stamps then they should. Makes me highly ticked off when I hear about it.

But I'm not thinking of those people who lie. I'm thinking about the honest to goodness sick people who have no help in getting well.

I recounted a story on this thread last night involving a friend of mine, and what happened to him. One of the posters called me stupid, called me a liar, and every word of what I wrote was true. And worse. You can't be the judge of every sick person. You can make the decisions someone's physician makes, you can't judge how ill someone is, or how much pain they are in. We have to have a little faith. Hard as it may be at times.

Now redhatty, please try to control yourself. I can feel your anger and frustration, and I know you are about ready to wring my neck.. and with some of the things I've said the last couple of days, you probably have reason. I've not been the most graceful person in the world either.

I am not going to change your mind, and you are not going to change my heart.

I have a mind too, by the way. And I'm not afraid to use it.

[edit on 8/16/0909 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


CUBA?? You are too gullible if you think Michael Moore got it all right.

try checking out www.therealcuba.com...

Yep we all want that kind of healthcare, don't we?

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

Bravo! Excellent! There really is a great deal of patting oneself on the back on this thread. And people are very, very angry over the idea of this possible reform. What is the saying? Fear? Fear makes people mean.

I have a fear and it is not reform. My fear is that we might continue to pump billions into a broken system that is already in place. Where is the reform in that? We all know that a lot of money flows around in our health care system, and the majority doesn't go to the doctors, nurses and workers that do the work.

I took my kid to a clinic that was run by certified nurses with a doctor on call. It was a holiday and the normal hospital was closed except for the emergency room, well my son had pink eye and I wanted him to get treated but really didn’t want to go to the all day wait of an emergency room. Within a few minutes I saw a nurse who treated my son and gave me eye drops…the bill was 20 dollars, and a regular doctor visit with insurance would have been 500?

There are also clinics around the country that are outside the insurance umbrella that have a menu like system with prices for each medical service. This way you pick and choose what you need and the cost is extremely low compared to what you would normally find.

There is also an alternate system that has been introduced where the insurance companies are removed from the fix pricing picture and doctors set their own prices and competition level everything out. Right now there is no competition, if you were an uninsured person you cannot shop around for the best price, you are stuck with that 200 dollar aspirin bill that you cannot pay, but you could afford a 25 cents aspirin. So an America like this you would see a clinic that has great prices and quality of service get a lot of business and everyone would be happy. We could even give vouchers to offset these lower medical costs to those who can’t even afford them either.

The big difference is it would not cost 100s of billions, but then 100s of billions would not be floating in the big insurance/investors/government hands either…is that a bad thing?

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I read the thread and your ignorant response. That was all I needed. You want to down this kid because the health care industry fed him drugs and he got hooked? YOU CALLED IT A BAD DECISION AND CHOICES ON HIS BEHALF? Who's decision was it to put him on physically addicting drugs for extended periods? HMMMM....I wonder? WOULD IT BE "THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY?" Do me a favor, take one 5 milligram vicodin a day for about 3 months. I'd love to see what happens when you decide to step away.

Let me tell you something, If I had two minutes alone with you, you'd be begging for pain meds for the rest of your life. That's merely an analogy for cancer patients, endometriosis, lupus, AIDS, paraplegics, quadraplegics, GULF WAR SYNDROME, POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, tendinitis, fibromyalgia, fibrosis, and a million other painful diseases that strike the heart of Americans. Are their ailments the result of bad choices? But don't worry, at some point, God has something in mind for you too. Lets hope the economy doesn't cave in because, if it does, its quite possible that private insurance agencies won't be able to cover the costs of whatever you may need.

i totally agree with you on this one. most people will trust their doctors and take their medication even when some sites on the internet will say bad things about those meds. after all every patient will react differently to the same substance since we are different individuals.

nobody chooses when they get sick and that's why health insurance coverage should be mandatory for anyone paying taxes in the US. maybe it should also be a requirement to have health insurance for the duration of the visa when entering the US as a tourist to make sure hospitals get paid in case of an emergency. most of us will hopefully not get cancer or some other terrible disease, but if all of us pay into the system, those who do get sick will have a chance to live or at least die with dignity in a hospice not in a gutter. it's a sort of social contract, just like you expect your neighbors to help you out if your house is on fire or someone is breaking in while you're at work!

Curiously enough, not a single supporter of this ridiculous BS proposal known as "reform" has taken on the Unconstitutionality of it.

Hmmmm, I wonder why.

Originally posted by TheAftermath
Curiously enough, not a single supporter of this ridiculous BS proposal known as "reform" has taken on the Unconstitutionality of it.

Hmmmm, I wonder why.

Because everyone knows The Consitution will be rewritten to make it happen, and oh, make many other things happen or stop happening too.

reply to post by Xtrozero


i AGREE WITH U THERE I HAVE MOVED MORE THAN 5 TIMES IN THE LAST 10 YEARS AND THE SAME THING ALWAYS HAPPENS IVE TRIED EVERY THING FROM COMPUTER PROGRAMMING TO INDUSTRIAL CONSTRUCTION AND AS SOON AS THE COPRATE BIGWIGS FIGURE OUT THEY CAN GET IT DONE CHEAPER THEY GO FOR IT IT BUT WHAT THEY DONT EVER ASK IS IF I WOULD DO THE JOB FOR HALF THE PRICE WHICH IN THE SITUATION IM IN NOW I WOULD

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I have a fear and it is not reform. My fear is that we might continue to pump billions into a broken system that is already in place. Where is the reform in that? We all know that a lot of money flows around in our health care system, and the majority doesn't go to the doctors, nurses and workers that do the work.

I took my kid to a clinic that was run by certified nurses with a doctor on call. It was a holiday and the normal hospital was closed except for the emergency room, well my son had pink eye and I wanted him to get treated but really didn’t want to go to the all day wait of an emergency room. Within a few minutes I saw a nurse who treated my son and gave me eye drops…the bill was 20 dollars, and a regular doctor visit with insurance would have been 500?

just imagine... if anyone could go to a doctor for a low co-pay like $10-$40 per visit as most private insurance plans currently offer - who would still use the ER as their primary care? since when "regular doctor visit with insurance would have been 500"?? whenever i check my explanation of benefits i never see a doc costing more than $150.

the point being that if we reform healthcare so that people don't have to use the ER where a visit costs $1000 - $5000 or more per hour of treatment, and instead allow everybody to have a primary doctor that they can get for 10-50 times less cost we'll save money for the entire plan.

imagine how many lives will be saved this way. you go to the ER you have to go over your health history with a very busy doctor who may not pay attention. you go to your PCP and they already have your history, they take more time with you and the chances of a medical mistake are so much lower.

It's funny that I notice some of the same people screaming about how "elitists" are screwing us over and don't care about us are doing that self same thing to those they consider below themselves. Funny old world we live in.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
It's funny that I notice some of the same people screaming about how "elitists" are screwing us over and don't care about us are doing that self same thing to those they consider below themselves. Funny old world we live in.

yeah... just imagine those tax dollars saved if we put to death all those making under 30K who can't afford to pay for their own health care. and while we're at it, let's make sure we pull the plug on grandma and all others over 50 who are not productive anymore. just think how many Chevy volts we could power from those freed up outlets

"Chevy volt... put grandma's plug to a better use!"

[edit on 16-8-2009 by DarkSecret]

Wow, this thread has grown quickly. We are in a mess because of our government. I'm getting pretty nervous because come December, my husband and I will be off of cobra and we have pre-existing conditions. It will cost a fortune to find medical coverage. And we are both unemployed. Imagine working over 30 years, losing your job and being in such a predicament? This is scary as hell!!!!

reply to post by DarkSecret


I was more talking about those using broad generalizations of "leeches" for those that need medical assistance due to low income and etc. But that was funny.

reply to post by Night Star


There are some that would argue that since he does not have a job right now he is a leech and does not deserve health care. Because they "can't take my money to pay other people's health bills!!!" while the simple fact their money has been taken for soo much more sinister reasons for years now yet when someone talks about helping those they consider lower than themselves, now they rage.

reply to post by iamjesusphish


please explain to me why I as a citizen should be required to subsidize your bad choices in life. Why should I, as someone who has made good choices in life, have dug myself out of my own pitfalls and hardships, and generally pulled myself up by my own bootstraps be compelled through legislation, or guilt to pay money for you and you healthcare free and clear, while I still have to pay for my own, as well as any premiums?

At what point, do you believe that I should be penalized for being successful and and required to support the unsuccessful? At what point do you believe that because you can't cut it in life and survival that you deserve part of my earnings?

Maybe you should have kept your nose in a book and gotten a decent job instead of a pile of coc aine or dust or whatever the hell else you druggies jam in your bodies and gotten yourself on welfare.

reply to post by Night Star


Night Star, let's hope this is about to change.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


Welcome to no longer being allowed to bitch about the "elitists". Without being hypocritical I mean.

Originally posted by Oatmeal
reply to post by 11b1p

 

i do have to give you credit though, you at least have a job, and want a better job. keep your head up, you will get there.

Yes he will, still it must be hard for young people, after they turn 18 and thrown out into the world by their parents, to try and get an education, pay for a place to live, have a car, pay for insurance, afford gas, buy food, and pay for some type of health care. The 18 to say 23 year old, with no education or just high school, can only get low paying jobs. Yes, life is tough and cruel, I just think that some people deserve a break. The ones who work and are responsible. Not the lazy, suck off the Govt. types. I pay for my health care and work hard. I don't feel I should subsidize anyone. Just my 2 cents...

Well when I was 18 to 28 I had plenty of room mates to spread the bills around. I did not need medical because I was in good shape because I ran and worked out pretty often. I did have crappy jobs but that changed when I took the risk and went offshore for the first time. I instantly went full speed ahead because I never had a job before that pretty much gave me unlimited work even if the wage was low. I was able to make 70k a year making 8 dollars an hour but I was making it 24 hours a day because I was out of country.....


Being young sucks because You are always poor and uncertain but its balanced out because You generally are in good health if You are the average person. Now today things have changed though because when I was a kid We ran and ran and we spent most of our time outside. Most kids today sit on their fat arses all day and wonder why they are fat and sickly at age 23 to 24. Hell You might want to change some of Your habbits while You can because You are young...

I just quit smoking because I didn't want to pay Obama another red cent. In my profession quiting smoking is almost next to impossible because You are in a very stressful environment and away from home. Since I quit smoking I'll be damned if I pay for someone to have medical especially if they screw up their own health.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


If he doesnt have a job, he doesnt contribute, and therefore is a leech no matter how many different ways you try to spin it.

reply to post by TheAftermath


And neither do you have any further right to bitch about "elitists" as you have your own little view of you being better than another and how those below you are undeserving of _____.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]