I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

The fact that anyone wants to deny others health care boggles the mind.

What does that say about humans?

I can't get past that - let alone discuss it.

Officially, this is my first post and I just couldn't sit back and be a lazy reader anymore. I had to finally post a comment on a few threads I have been keeping up with. My opinion on Government Run Health care is well, not very high. Personally, I am not a communist or at all socialist and I despise any shred of existence of either in any person, place, or thing. As far as healthcare is concerned, I believe that If people really want it bad enough they will find they money to get it from a private insurer. I believe that we all have the opportunity to prosper economically to the point of affording healthcare and any reason otherwise is the fault of a lazy, unmotivated person. This is America and capitalism is what makes us great! One of the key components of capitalism is competition. This competition ensures that only the strong and worthy survive. Americas Capitalism is on the decline because of the Greedy Collective of Corporations. Yes, there is a difference between capitalism and the greedy corporations. Unlike true capitalist, they believe that they cannot be matched in economic standing and aim at erasing all chances of the people to amount to thier level. Though they themselves are not socialist, socialism is thier main weapon. Just a little bit of more info: I am a 23 year old fresh out of engineering school and have a $43,000 loan to pay off. I have many medical problems including a hernia that acts up occasionally. Doctors say I will eventually need surgery. If I work hard enough and do all in my power I believe that "I" not anyone else will take care of my cost. I also have suffered a few accidents with cars and have recovered without insurance thanks to home and herbal remedies. I understand that once I get a family, my Ideas may change but, unlike irresponsible adults I will ensure that I can properly afford a child before I have one. I will make sure that there are no "accidents". I dont care if I seem harsh and uncompassionate. Its a dog eat dog world, we all need to toughen up and stop relying on others to help us. I too am a recovering addict and I did make the concious choice to start and stop. I did not nor will I ever blame my addiction on some big pharma.

Originally posted by iamjesusphish
How I love the ignore button... If you want to attack me fine... I am just sharing my opinion and once I can get a better job I will but for now I am below the poverty line making minimum wage...

Correction: You are slightly above the poverty line. Below the poverty line would mean that you were sleeping on a park bench & eating in a soup kitchen. I don't think even churches have wifi, do they? You sleep in a nice, warm, soft bed at night, right? You're probably on disability. Am I right on that note, too? Take it from someone who was born disabled & the only hand outs I have ever taken have been through the patient assistance program for my scripts & that's through the drug company itself! I've worked hard all my life & am disgusted that I cannot give up cigarettes, but the gov't. isn't throwing money at me to get off them through the use of pills, shots, or the patch. How much methadone has the gov't. given you for free? Fact of the matter is, you just chose to become addicted to a stronger, more deadly, & greater controlled substance. Poor you.

Originally posted by aravoth

Doctors and nurses do not exist to be your slaves.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by aravoth]

acturly in a way they do , they do take an oath to see to it that their fellow man is O.K and do what it takes to ensure it by their means be it a free man or slave.

what the paradox is in this equation is the hospitals and their budget/fundings, cause thats where most doctors "work"and doctors now days require paychecks and that budget rephlexes on the means by which doctors do their work.

Originally posted by cynic121
To add a personal example here, I had jaw surgery on both my upper and lower jaw five weeks ago. Fortunatly where my mom works they give health care benefits so we were able to afford it. However what if someone who didn't get health care benefits were in my shoes? The surgery cost 30 thousand dollars, and thats not counting the surgery I had to have before that removing some obstructing teeth.

...

Hope you are better.

You situation has nothing to do with this debate over healthcare. The surgery you had is STILL going to cost 30K, which at least in your case, was paid for by your insurance. It's not going to go down in cost much with the new plans proposed. You, or rather your mother, paid into her insurance. Everyone thinks this healthcare plan is "it's on the house" ie it won't cost anything. How exactly can you add 40 Million more people, who don't have H.I. and probably can't afford it and lower costs for everyone?

The Congressional Budget Office states that the Federal Health Insurance plan will on average, cost 10% less than the same Private Plan. People will eventually end up with the Govt. Plan. Medicare right now isn't maintaining it's budget, with the Baby Boomers hitting, it's going to be in a mess.

Should we reform health care? Sure. Let's just get it right, take our time and get it so BOTH Parties can support it. As it stands right now, it's a Cluster---- just waiting to happen.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by pavil]

reply to post by Rockpuck


I totaly agree, take or leave it seems to describe the situation very accurately.

I have already sent my ideas to my state an congressonal reps.

" setup 2 polling websites, 1 for doctors, 1 for citizens, have a list of options and questions to answer/choose from, try to find an overall average between the 2 websites. If(big word "IF") everyone was to cooperate an poll on these websites, maybe we could find a common ground to begin the health reform."

I have't gotten any response yet. That is alright atleast i'm trying to give my $.02 to my reps(even if they don't listen). We need to start somewhere.

edit-spelling

[edit on 15/8/2009 by Pappa_Bear]

reply to post by CanadianDream420

When I give food to the poor they call me a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist
-Helder Camara

Originally posted by shorty
If my tax money were used to save the life of another human being... I wouldn't complain. I'd be cool with that. I am cool with that, because it does.

And you say you're against the government stealing your money via taxes to support programs you don't support.

Fundamentally then you don't support human life and are happy, through inaction, for innocent people to suffer and die because they don't have the cash to pay for health insurance. I don't know what prices are like in the US, but I imagine they're not cheap.

How does NOT CHOOSING to enable the leeches to the system equate to not supporting human life?

Please explain how your thought process goes from one statement to that conclusion.

Did you miss the post about how I worked as a health care provider & am studying to be licensed as a naturopath/homeopath practitioner??

Yep, I am such an example of someone who doesn't support human life, I am spending my time and money to get licensed to heal people by alternative methods.

Originally posted by Annee
The fact that anyone wants to deny others health care boggles the mind.

What does that say about humans?

I can't get past that - let alone discuss it.

How about you send me your paycheck every 2 weeks and I will use it to provide health insurance for others?

When should I expect the first one?

reply to post by paranoiaFTW


Well you dont have a job, or pay any taxes, so naturally you have no problem with it.

you are getting a free ride courtesy of other peoples wallets.

Originally posted by Annee
The fact that anyone wants to deny others health care boggles the mind.

What does that say about humans?

I can't get past that - let alone discuss it.

You are an example of those who have over-simplified this argument. You are either for the plan or you are an evil person who wants poor people to die. There are so many issues in this bill it reminds me of the Patriot Act. Your either for it or your for pro-terrorist.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


And you could pay for your misfortune. Your situation was better than those others you think should be left to die because they cannot afford it. That is the difference you expect everyone to be like you which is very self absorbed to say the least.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


Sounds kinda like my idea a few pages back of having health care professionals and scholars meet up to determine what the actual "problems" even are. How can you fix a problem if you don't know what the specific problems are?

So far the plan I see doesn't "fix" anything.. just another way of paying for the same thing. Obviously something is "broken" and needs a little "fixing" ..

Sometimes I wonder why in the age of instant communication we don't have a direct democracy instead of this Representative BS.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by cynic121
To add a personal example here, I had jaw surgery on both my upper and lower jaw five weeks ago. Fortunatly where my mom works they give health care benefits so we were able to afford it. However what if someone who didn't get health care benefits were in my shoes? The surgery cost 30 thousand dollars, and thats not counting the surgery I had to have before that removing some obstructing teeth.

...

Hope you are better.

You situation has nothing to do with this debate over healthcare. The surgery you had is STILL going to cost 30K, which at least in your case, was paid for by your insurance. It's not going to go down in cost much with the new plans proposed. You, or rather your mother, paid into her insurance. Everyone thinks this healthcare plan is "it's on the house" ie it won't cost anything. How exactly can you add 40 Million more people, who don't have H.I. and probably can't afford it and lower costs for everyone?

The Congressional Budget Office states that the Federal Health Insurance plan will on average, cost 10% less than the same Private Plan. People will eventually end up with the Govt. Plan. Medicare right now isn't maintaining it's budget, with the Baby Boomers hitting, it's going to be in a mess.

Should we reform health care? Sure. Let's just get it right, take our time and get it so BOTH Parties can support it. As it stands right now, it's a Cluster---- just waiting to happen.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by pavil]

30k ??? scheech your getting screwed, if i go to a private dentist here i can have a jaw full of prostetic teeth for under 100 euros

if i go to the free health care socialized center i pay 20 euros and get the same prostetic teeth.

reply to post by shorty


The words staggeringly astronomical come into mind.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Being responsible and looking out for your own care is "selfish" ........

I was under the notion that DEMANDING other people pay for your care was selfish while offering nothing in return. Silly me.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Nice twisting of my words. Too bad I said nothing of the sort.

And hate to tell you, "Crap happens." and not everything can be planned for and money set aside against it. Especially when you don't come from a family of means to begin with. You can be a self absorbed little pug all you wish. Just don't pretend you're rightous to do so.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
You make it sound like he decided "Hm. I know what I will do! Get addicted to a substance and ruin my life."

I could have been addicted to hydrocodone, but I made my choice not to even though i am still in a lot of pain. Gabapentin helps to reduce the pain, since it is a drug for nerve damage, but it does not take away most of the pain, and there are days that i can't even get out of bed because of the pain.

I am supposed to be taking 2 methadone three times a day, but I also know that would make me addicted to it, and will damage my liver, so instead when I am awake I take the gabapentin only, and the methadone for when going to bed.

The pain is bad, but I rather be in some pain than get addicted to hydrocodone, or methadone and get liver damage because of the meds.

So yes, it is a choice imo.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


How is wanting to keep ones earnings and not have them distributed to others considered to be self absorbed?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Whatever makes you sleep at night, you are allowed your opinion of course. A little empathy would go a long way though. NO ONE decides to have misfortune and you seem to forget that.