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I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

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posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Yes, he's paving the way for the complete exodus of any Americans who have anything even remotely resembling a brain. You have just destroyed the constitution and everything in it.




posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


My issue with health reform is that it will be rediculously expensive . i mean the govts quote was 1trillion per year... not to mention Big pharma signing off on 80 billion over 10 years were going to see alot more addicts recovering or non. Just to let you know they paid so that we would ban cheaper drugs and keep the rediculous prices in effect... and lets talk about the 80 billion they pledged ... i think this year alone they cited that healthcare fraud would be double that... so 1.5 billion people footing a 1 trillion dollar per year equals every last one of those people paying 666 dollars per year and not to mention that people who dont earn a living wage get there taxes handed back to them ... then minus the people who dont file returns then minus the people who are homeless as well the unemployed..... that 1.5 billion people gets cut pretty quickly making each eligible taxpayer paying roughly 1000 per year in taxes on top of what they already pay

edit to add im 23 and dont have health insurance ...

[edit on 15-8-2009 by conspiracyrus]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by iamjesusphish
Alright I am very fed up with rich people that have great health care being enraged with the notion that they will not pay for another persons health care because it is socialist...


Your ideas are all backwards. Socialism is all about taking without permission, so I'd have to say you are the selfish one for wanting to take other people's money without their permission for your own warm fuzzy causes. Therefore, you are the selfish one. Not only that, you you are likely being violent to top it off, because if someone does not pay the taxes that goes to pay for the health care, you support kidnapping them as they will go to prison for tax evasion.

Tax evasion is one of the most noble thing someone can do in today's economy to help people like you out. Rather than throwing out their money in a big government money hole, someone noble person evading immoral taxes can actually afford to give money to charitable causes such as drug rehabilitation centers.

Being rich has nothing to do with it. I'm definitely poor, living under the poverty line, due to the depression, and I don't want government health care because I know it would be managed terribly and be very low quality. I'd rather the government solve the problem of unaffordable health care first by taking out the subsidies to health insurance companies. Maybe AFTER THAT, after they've fixed their prior screw-up trying to improve health care but actually made it worse for me personally, I wouldn't be objecting so strongly to such low quality government care, because after all 50% less money than otherwise would be thrown down the government money hole and we wouldn't be charged a high price for garbage service.

A few months ago I tried going to a new doctor for a visit and they charged me about $185. I settled for about $110. However, I won't go again because its too expensive. If the government simply would simply get the hell out of my health care completely, I would have likely had to pay more like $60 for the visit and I'd actually be able to go to the doctor every now and then.

I wouldn't be mad if you were in communist China saying such things, but since you are likely in my country tearing up my remaining financial freedom I'm kind of pissed. People who want socialized medicine should move to France because we can not live together in harmony. We have irreconcilable moral differences. You think extortion is fantastic. I think its morally repulsive. I think your side will win, and so hopefully we'll have the free-state project or seasteading projects succeed so there will be someone in the world that is a new land of freedom. In 1900 America was definitely the land of the free. Now it is the land of the the socialists and fascists.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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A simple question for our conservative, libertarian, anti hc bill friends ...

You are poor, (knock on wood) you become gravely ill, do you take government health care or do you choose to die for your principles?

If you choose the later you are most probably either a liar or will change your mind when the day comes, if you chose the former you are a hypocrite.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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We have free healthcare in Australia. Have for a long time. Yes, some of my taxes go toward it but I look at as forced savings. It works fine for me. I broke my kneecap recently and went straight to emergency (free), x-rays (free), doctor consultation (free) and all my subsequent visits (free).

Many people here have private health also, just in case they want private hospital or some of the things not covered by Medicare. When you go to your normal doctor you only have to pay about half the bill as Medicare covers the other half.

Here is how I see it. I really don't care if a small percentage of my tax goes towards free health care and that others may benefit. Why? Because I believe that we are a prosperous enough country to look after our poor, elderly and less fortunate. I kind of thought that's what civilized nations did!

Plus, have you ever thought that people with no means are less likely to break in to your house or mine looking for money to pay their health bills if they had free care? And those with chronic illness wont be a drain on the welfare system if they can get free healthcare - rather than sitting at home forever getting a disability pension because they couldn't afford have the care they needed to get well again.

I really have no idea what you are all so afraid of.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Takes 15% of your check! Sad. You just made that up.
Most Americans won't even have to spend a nickel.


Guess you haven't read the bills. the least amount that will be taken out, in addition to what is already taken out is another 6% of your income. Plus your employer will have to pay a %

If you remain with a private plan, you will have a minimum of 8% taken out of your pay. That is NOT in place of, but in addition to whatever is already deducted from your pay, including your share of private insurance premiums.

The bill is actually written in such a way as to roll out the system so that in 3 yrs time from onset, it will become impossible for all but the wealthiest to have private health plans, businesses, for cost reasons will HAVE to switch over to the .gov plan.

And those percentages I mentioned are for the bottom of the line basic plan coverage. If you want premium-plus (and it actually is available in your area) your costs will be higher.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Now, this is going into new territory. Should being permitted to have a family be based on income? Should people who make minimum wage be discouraged from having a family?


Sure, why not.. hell, we as society have to fund them and pay for every aspect of their lives anyways, right? Several states have histories with forced sterilization .. so it's not to off.. who's to say the Gov wouldn't propose something like that?

*sarcastic post by the way*



Takes 15% of your check! Sad. You just made that up. Most Americans won't even have to spend a nickel.


LOL.... Obama's own words is a 5-10% tax increase on GROSS income (before tax deductions, as in, it's the first thing taken out) ..

However to make you feel better he said only people making over $250,000 a year will have this new tax added (which is absurd) but he would quickly find out that a few million cannot fund a few hundred million. The tax would be appropriated to everyone eventually at even higher rates..

For instance, if we went into Europe's Socialist systems we would need about a 20% tax increase.

If you think the Gov can snap it's fingers and *poof!* free health care for all, you are sadly mistaken. SOMEONE will pay for EVERYTHING.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Bill outlines the employer if opting out of private care will provide State funded care at 8% of Gross Profit.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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It seems the biggest problem anti-health care people have here is this sense of entitlement among those who will benefit from it. For this arguement to be correct, the main advocates for health care would have to be exactly those who don't have it. However, this is not the case. The majority of Americans have health care, yet a majority of Americans also support Health Care reform. The reason for this is that those advocating health care reform are not the ones who will benefit from it, although they would no doubt support, but are compassionate people who don't want to see others suffer.

Also you seem to think that everyone who do not have health care only have health problems that are entirely of their own making. Is a rotten tooth because the person didn't have the money to go to the dentist that person's fault?

To add a personal example here, I had jaw surgery on both my upper and lower jaw five weeks ago. Fortunatly where my mom works they give health care benefits so we were able to afford it. However what if someone who didn't get health care benefits were in my shoes? The surgery cost 30 thousand dollars, and thats not counting the surgery I had to have before that removing some obstructing teeth. If a person can't afford to pay for health care, how would that person pay 30 thousand dollars? And can you honestly go up to say to that person, who works a minimum wage job or go up to the mom of the kid and works a minimum wage job, that this genetic or premie related (babies who come out early) problem is of their own making and you, for one, would not help this lazy person? Could you do that?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 




You are poor, (knock on wood) you become gravely ill, do you take government health care or do you choose to die for your principles?


Die.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by cynic121
 


too bad you didnt have your fingers wired shut id gladly shell out the extra cash to pay for that surgery for you



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
A simple question for our conservative, libertarian, anti hc bill friends ...

You are poor, (knock on wood) you become gravely ill, do you take government health care or do you choose to die for your principles?

If you choose the later you are most probably either a liar or will change your mind when the day comes, if you chose the former you are a hypocrite.

I live free with an understanding of my personal responsibilities, which also include the consequences of the choices I make. I will die free.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Absolute garbage. You are presenting yourself as the ultimate authority on this subject matter. You clearly are not.

Your content is unjustified and erroneous. It's arrogant and pretentious.

To be quoting that you "know" what is going to be due in taxes is not only premature, but misleading. You don't "know". And you are likely reading some thoughts of somebody who doesn't 'know" either. Bull.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by cynic121
 


"Reform" needs to happen. "Overhaul" does not.

Most objecting have a few main points:

Entitlement. The "I deserve this and that because I said so!" crowd.. which leads to:

Abuse. The folks like the OP who use state funds to get addicted to pain meds, then need state funds to save his life and get off the meds, then complains the health care system isn't good enough.

Not to mention that when the USA offers "free health care" how many MEXICANS will be leaching off the system??

Hell, I would compromise.. kick every illegal out of the country, and I will support Obama's plan.

No ones talking about them anymore.

Government. Government is to big and they destroy every novel idea they touch. Just look to Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, VA treatment etc. All GOOD IDEAS ... but the State just couldn't manage any of it.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Here's a Federal Law I do support

S 1324 - Health Care Freedom Act of 2009

www.govtrack.us...

This bill gives a $2,000 annual tax credit for individuals, 5,000 per family to buy their own insurance.

Excludes Illegals

There is a provision which empowers the Govt to pay the insurance company with the tax credit on behalf of the individual at the beginning of the selection of a insurance plan by the individual so that the individual doesn't need the up-front cash.

Health Savings Accounts are still allowed. You cannot buy insurance from them.

Complete Tort System Overhaul

Ease multi-State insurance marketing

Block Grants to States that may have special programs to cover pre-existing condition costs


This is the part I like the best.... how they're going to pay for it:

TITLE IV--FUNDING

SEC. 401. FUNDING PROVISIONS.

(a) Termination of TARP Program- Notwithstanding any provision of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (12 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) or any other provision of law, the Secretary of Treasury may not, on and after the date of enactment of this Act, make any payment or obligation under the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (12 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.). Any funds made available under such Act that have not been obligated shall be rescinded and made available to carry out this Act.

(b) Collecting Funds- Notwithstanding any other provision of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (12 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) or any other provision of law, the Secretary of Treasury shall collect all revenues relating to, and proceeds from the sale of, obligations purchased and made under the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (12 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) by not later than September 30, 2014, at a rate of not less than 20 percent per year of the total obligations purchased and made under such Act.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Alright, we have 15%, now we have come down to 8%,

Anybody else want to take a stab at it?

Nonsense.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


....How much of a tax increase are you expecting then?

Did you think the Gov will afford $2 trillion without raising taxes?

People seem to forget, we are in the middle of a depression and the President is trying to shove this down our throats.... every past administration is probably laughing at the timing and strategy, and would be dumbfounded if it passed.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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BTW: A regular doctors bill here for me, under the Medicare system is about $50AUD. When you go to pay, the GP bulk bills immediately and through Medicare I get a $30 rebate - so all I actually pay is $20.

If you go to emergency at a hospital, seeing the doctor costs you nothing, you just might have to wait a while - especially if it's not life threatening, but if you have no money it's worth it.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by redhatty
 


Absolute garbage. You are presenting yourself as the ultimate authority on this subject matter. You clearly are not.

Your content is unjustified and erroneous. It's arrogant and pretentious.

To be quoting that you "know" what is going to be due in taxes is not only premature, but misleading. You don't "know". And you are likely reading some thoughts of somebody who doesn't 'know" either. Bull.


Oh really??? Try reading www.abovetopsecret.com...

My thread that goes over the bill, confirming or debunking other claims, point by point, with the actual text of the bill quoted for each point.

Doing the research is not arrogance, it's intelligence



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 


You just don't get it, there all kinds of services the Roman empire did not provide back in the 1st century that we have today, that are paid for with our taxs today. 911 service where police and firemen are deployed for one, there are many more. Health care can and should be an integrated part of those same services that we all pay for collectively to better society as a whole, it's so simple really.

And you want a scripture, how about the golden rule, if you ever find yourself sick and poor and without insurance you would want help.

Here is a simple example that everybody should be able to grasp.
You have a good job lets say $50,000 a year, and through this job you have excellent health insurance. So you have no worries. Suddenly do to the economic downturn you lose your job, and with it goes your health care.
One month later you have a serious medical issue that needs to be dealt with immediately, and you suddenly realize you have no health care. As you are in between jobs. Because of this your family is now forced into bankruptcy.
If you can't understand how universal health is the golden rule then I am sorry but your have zero empathy for you fellow man.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by Blue_Jay33]



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