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I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

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posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment
 


And you are trying to equate the interconnection of all life to the justification for government run national health care???

bit of a stretch there, isn't it?




posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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I say we dump healthcare altogether, I mean as far as agencies go, they all have their seperate agendas, and none of them are in our best interest, so dump medicaid/medicare and the insurance agencies. If someone needs a doctor go to a doctor pay a fee based on your wages, then if you don't work, maybe do janitorial work or community service to pay for whatever it is you needed to have done. I don't like hospitals and doctors anyway, so I would agree with this system. As for children, should get their shots free of charge, because it's the school system IE government who requires them and the physicals, anything else they need, would fall under the same guidelines,the parent pay by sliding scale or do community service. And I am in debt to a hospital right now for my son when he had seizures and my daughter had an abcessed tooth, so before you say that I wouldn't be affected by this system, I am letting you know, I would, and I would have absolutely no problem doing community service work to pay off those bills. Since I can't find a job, I'd be glad for something to do during the day plus it would give experience in another field helping employers see flexibility and the willingness to work. I am not against working for something that I utilized, of course how the community service would equal the pay for the doctors and hospitals, I am not sure, but maybe the work is on a state run farm raising crops and such, that the government then sells and gives the money to the doctors and hospitals for the services they provided to uninsured, unemployed people. I don't know it's just an idea. Of course some medical professionals would have to take less income, but I already think they are paid way too much, a nurse making 36 bucks an hour to wipe a****** is getting paid way too much. JMO. Doctors are even worse, a lot of times they are a sorry excuse for human beings much less being doctors. We'd end up with a better class of doctor because people who really care about people would go into the business and not just someone who wants to make hundreds of thousands of dollars and could really give a sh*** about your health. I know medical school is expensive, we need to draw the line there as well, so that even a poor person who wishes to care for people can afford to go and not be indebted for their entire career. It's a vicous cycle. Everyone wants more money, more money when they don't entirely deserve it. It's the greed that's bringing this system down, and it starts at the universities...That's what I fully believe. How do you make people stop being so greedy? Now that is the ultimate question, because that's impossible to do.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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I too am on government run health care; I am a disabled veteran.

Due to my military injuries, I cannot work, I receive a monthly check that pays my bills, and allows me to have a modicum of comfort for me and my family.

I also can go to the VA and get treatment and examinations that I could not otherwise afford. Right now, I am undergoing a battery of tests that will tell me and the doctors, how badly the depleted uranium exposure I underwent is damaging my body. If the damage eventually destroys my kidneys, which is a very real possibility, I will be forced to use dialysis and will need a kidney for my continued survival. Costing even more money.

Some people might say, that since I am getting my livelihood and medical care from the government, that I am costing them more than the OP.

To which I would say in more vulgar terms, 'screw you.' I have more than paid my dues in both my sweat and blood blood, my fellow soldiers and friends blood and sadly some of their lives.

Government run health care has worked for me and my fellow veterans. It may have problems, it may require patience, and a bit of proactive research on the peoples part. But it does work.

Now, the OP is on Medicare, he's also a productive citizen who pays his taxes; and thus also pays into Medicare. Those facts, have been totally ignored by the 'hyper-reactionary' posters whose, erornious supposition says, "You're the jerk-wad costing me money!" Puh-huh-lease.

Since FICA-Medicare and FICA-Social Security are nothing more that government run 'insurance programs' in case you the tax payer become unable or too old to work... Just where is this costing you a red cent? These moneys are invested and in turn create interest and a return, such that the money you pay in is only a pittance in the terms of which these programs generate money.

Do you really think the government itself is paying for Medicare 'just from your tax dollars?' Well I am sure some of you think so, but the truth is, no they are not. What you are doing is paying your share of your insurance under these programs.

I don't like paying car or house insurance, but I do so because the benefits outweigh the cost in the long run. Which is to say, an ounce of prevention beats an ounce of cure.

Frankly some of the diatribe against the OP is nothing more than people up on their 'moral high horse' trying to sneer down at the OP. Where as the OP is standing on solid ground, an has immanently more courage and moral strength than -anyone- riding their moral high horse will ever have.

I salute the OP in that they have found the strength to rise above their problems, and I hope that their strength sustains them past any hurdles that might cause them to falter.

As for the petty people, who focus solely on what a person was... grow up already.

M.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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On a personal experience, I have a family member who is fighting against health care for all.

The crazy thing is? At one time he was having financial problems, and put his child on government health insurance, took food stamps and a myriad other government programs.

He now has a job, and says the same thing those against helping others are saying. He does not want to pay for someone else's health insurance. But when he needed the help, he sure had no problem taking MY tax money to help himself and his child out.

My husband and I are middle income, but our employment does not assist with health care, and we cannot afford health insurance. I can guarantee we pay taxes, why are my children not getting the benefits of this? Why do I have to pay taxes, while not being able to afford health care, but pay for my family member to have health care and all the other government programs he took advantage of?

My family deserves health care just as everyone else does. EVERYONE, should have affordable health care that does not destroy them financially.

Harm None
Peace



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Moshpet
I too am on government run health care; I am a disabled veteran.

Due to my military injuries, I cannot work, I receive a monthly check that pays my bills, and allows me to have a modicum of comfort for me and my family.

I also can go to the VA and get treatment and examinations that I could not otherwise afford. Right now, I am undergoing a battery of tests that will tell me and the doctors, how badly the depleted uranium exposure I underwent is damaging my body. If the damage eventually destroys my kidneys, which is a very real possibility, I will be forced to use dialysis and will need a kidney for my continued survival. Costing even more money.

Some people might say, that since I am getting my livelihood and medical care from the government, that I am costing them more than the OP.

To which I would say in more vulgar terms, 'screw you.' I have more than paid my dues in both my sweat and blood blood, my fellow soldiers and friends blood and sadly some of their lives.

Government run health care has worked for me and my fellow veterans. It may have problems, it may require patience, and a bit of proactive research on the peoples part. But it does work.

Now, the OP is on Medicare, he's also a productive citizen who pays his taxes; and thus also pays into Medicare. Those facts, have been totally ignored by the 'hyper-reactionary' posters whose, erornious supposition says, "You're the jerk-wad costing me money!" Puh-huh-lease.

Since FICA-Medicare and FICA-Social Security are nothing more that government run 'insurance programs' in case you the tax payer become unable or too old to work... Just where is this costing you a red cent? These moneys are invested and in turn create interest and a return, such that the money you pay in is only a pittance in the terms of which these programs generate money.

Do you really think the government itself is paying for Medicare 'just from your tax dollars?' Well I am sure some of you think so, but the truth is, no they are not. What you are doing is paying your share of your insurance under these programs.

I don't like paying car or house insurance, but I do so because the benefits outweigh the cost in the long run. Which is to say, an ounce of prevention beats an ounce of cure.

Frankly some of the diatribe against the OP is nothing more than people up on their 'moral high horse' trying to sneer down at the OP. Where as the OP is standing on solid ground, an has immanently more courage and moral strength than -anyone- riding their moral high horse will ever have.

I salute the OP in that they have found the strength to rise above their problems, and I hope that their strength sustains them past any hurdles that might cause them to falter.

As for the petty people, who focus solely on what a person was... grow up already.

M.



Nevermind I see that you do recieve medical care. Should they not have given you a pension to live off of anyway? I mean they spend so much on going to war, why can't they cover the people that served them in those times. I don't understand that.


This is ridiculous, you shouldn't have to be on assistance, they should take care of all your living expenses especially since you were disabled in serving!!! It's called workmens comp in the civilian world. The government never ceases to amaze me!


[edit on 15-8-2009 by ldyserenity]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


No, I am not. Read my first post. I think that there is all kinds of crap in the healthcare bill. I am just saying that I see a very inconsistent philosophical position in many who rail against things such as this. The waters in this country (and world) are extremely muddied. The power/control game is not in the least fair, and it exists in a very defensive, wasteful, self-serving fashion. A large amount of people back some political position merely because it suits their particular angle. If it does not suit their angle, they are more than willing to support a contrary political position. One that is not at all consistent with a previously stated view. People do it so often that they lose their bearings altogether. They become selfish robots, willing to bend and twist truth to support selfish ends. Stupid domination/submission rituals. Utter myopic selfishness. I know we can transcend this, but it will be a dynamic transition.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by 11b1p
 

What you say makes no sense. What does paying taxes have to do with medicaid/medicare?
I have owned my own business for 16 years and the only insurance I can afford is AmeriHealth Mercy...Medicaid. Business owners are not all rich barons of industry some of us just barely get by. I pay taxes both business and personal. My wife, who works part time, is on Medicaid. When our baby daughter was born, insurance only paid for 2 days in the hospital and we were treated like second class citizens. Our daughter enrolled in the CHIP program through the state.
I was in an accident about 20 years ago. I was hit by a car and really messed up...shattered humerus, cracked fibula, the top of my tibia at the knee as sheered off, broken nose and a concussion. I was in a coma for 10days. My insurance paid for ALL OF IT plus there is now no evidence of the accident save a few scars. I move and think fine....so I've been told lol If the accident happened today I would be in financial ruin and probably on disability.
The American health issue is controlled by those who stand to lose profit from sickness and by those who don't believe in a human society built on compassion and understanding.
I share your views iamjesusphish and I'm glad everything worked out for you.
Ignorance, like intelligence, is infinite.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by edmer68
 



The American health issue is controlled by those who stand to lose profit from sickness and by those who don't believe in a human society built on compassion and understanding.


That's what I said...in many more words.

This is so true...it boils down to one thing greed...and it's deplorable!



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by Moshpet
I too am on government run health care; I am a disabled veteran.

SNIP
M.



I think this is so sad, why can't a person who has served in the military be provided healthcare through the government?Especially if you became disabled due to servign? I, too, was in the ARMY, and if they supplied healthcare to all who have ever served, then a lot of the burden would be lifted from the system. I mean they spend so much on going to war, why can't they cover the people that served them in those times. I don't understand that.


I am getting care, and may past soldiers can as well, the system largely works, it just doesn't work ideally. I can complain that the system often is slow, unwieldy, and requires effort to get things done. The biggest problem I see with it, is that if you can't tie an injury or illness directly to a service related injury, getting a percentage for monetary support is difficult.

It is not to say you can't get treated for it, but well, you could end up -paying- for it out of pocket; if it is not service connected, or if you are under 50% disabled. Which is a problem for many of my fellow veterans.


Also I am getting financial support from them; but well, it's poverty level support. Which is to say, I can't afford to go out an buy a new car ever. Nor can I afford to just walk to a store and plunk down money on things that are 'purely' leisure related, with out saving up for month on end for it. Which is to say, almost never, because more important things like doctors bills for my wife and daughter, surprise repairs and so on come first.


Largely the system does work, but that is not to say it could not work better.
M.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Moshpet]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by iamjesusphish
Alright I am very fed up with rich people that have great health care being enraged with the notion that they will not pay for another persons health care because it is socialist...


This reminds me of a woman who was interviewed recently in Zimbabwe. She protested "this is not what we voted for."

No, that's quite right, it wasn't what she voted for. She voted for a politician to form a government to take other people's money and give it to her. What she got was a politician who formed a government who took her money and gave it to the government.

Hey, you vote for evil, you get evil. This is not freaking rocket science.

Oh btw, just think, if the drugs weren't illegal then your addiction probably wouldn't even be that big of a deal. Just like quiting smoking.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Let me say this, regarding the universal health care proposed!!

We are the ONLY Industrialized Nation that does NOT provide the most basic need for their citizens - and that is HEALTH CARE!!

Also - I have spent hours/days/weeks trying to get something for myself.

You see - I used to be insured, but a doctor of mine wrote down - I was a little depressed one time - a couple of years ago.

So what happened? The insurance company came to me and said that was a "pre existing condition" and they were DROPPING ME!!

I have NEVER been able to get insurance since - all unaffordable or no coverage but cost a lot!

So - last year I had major medical problems - needed surgery - after calling the hospital getting the cost of 2 nights and 1 hour of surgery time was going to be $16,000 - and they wanted $9000.00 upfront.

That did NOT include, medicine, surgeon, or anything else. So, without any complications and one hour rushed surgery - I was looking at a min. of $25,000.

Guess what - I thought B.S to that - I researched and found Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok Thailand - Flew there - had the BEST medical care of my Life - and had a tremendous amount of complications - 3 hour surgery - 3 nights in a PRIVATE room with a 36" plasma t.v. - granite wet bar - marble bathroom - balcony overlooking Bangkok - Gourmet Food!!

Cost? $5800 FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Now - I am having some difficulties - and I have spent days/hours/weeks trying to get something done - and I can not.

There is lots more to this story - that I won't go into!! BUT

WE NEED HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS - It should be a RIGHT NOT A PRIVILEGE!!

It really is disgusting here in the U.S. that people don't have access to good medical care!

S AND F !!!!



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


I do wonder if you even understand the basis of society. Your post so far don't seem to acknowledge even the most basic tenets of what make a country, a city, a town, a village, a family.

Thankfully, you are surrounded by those that do care and I hope they continue their unselfishness without prejudice when, god forbid, you're the one that comes asking for help.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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The World is full of selfish people, but as luck would have it their a dying breed. There is no argument anyone could pose that would pierce the layer of self-rightous hubris created by their ego and nurtured by the Pathocratic MSM.

Here it is, we are a social species. We have advanced our civilization this far because we have worked together in spite of you and your ilk. We will continue to do so in spite of your best efforts to derail our progress. You can agree to work with us to provide for the general welfare of all our citizens or you can move to a society that best reflects your values. I don't know where that might be but I imagine it will probably have a tribal form of government. If they have roads they will more than likely be dirt, so plan accordingly.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
Having a tax liability higher than the money they take out of your paycheck is being a REAL taxpayer.



okay, totally stupid.


if you pay taxes every year, you are a tax payer. there's no hierarchy, no special prize, and most definitely not a first place. if you pay taxes, you are entitled to tax payer provided gov't programs, provided they apply to you.


you are so far up your own ass if you think that's a real tax payer.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by questioningall
reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


We are the ONLY Industrialized Nation that does NOT provide the most basic need for their citizens - and that is HEALTH CARE!!


Canada doesn't. If you go in there for an emergency you'll wait like 10 hours before someone sees you. If you need emergency surgery the waiting lists is months long. All the hospitals are full.

Australia and Britian are in the same boat.

So yeah, we pay more to the gov't under socialism, and we get almost no treatment... and it further inflates the cost of private healthcare which means poor people ... well they just die. Charities can't keep up with the inflated costs.

I guess the lefties don't care though, because they keep right on pushing it.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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I definitely think there needs to be some serious reform in the health care industry, but I sure DON'T think the government can do it. Unfortunately, I am not intelligent enough to actually figure out a way to do it. I do honestly believe that if we allow the government to take over health care completely our taxes will go higher and higher and the care will get worse.

I have not had health insurance since mine got so expensive I had to make a choice between paying the rent or paying monthly insurance that got to be as much as my rent. For years I had catastropic coverage for $75/mo. Then I was in a major car wreck (a passanger) in 1984 and broke almost every bone in my body. I was in intensive care two days, had two surgeries, damaged the nerves and muscles in my right arm, had physical therapy for several months. Was given heavy duty paid meds, UNTIL I got to liking them too much and told the Dr. no more. Was told I would probably never again have full use of my right arm and hand. (Wrong! Works just fine now!) My medical bill for everything was around $50,000, my insurance paid all but about $1500. I did sue the driver's insurance to recover my medical bills, after two years settled out of court for ONLY my medical expenses. I could have gone to court and got alot more, but my sweetie was killed and to continue fighting would have entailed his parents testify and reliving that night. Losing their son almost destroyed them and I just couldn't and wouldn't do anything to add to their pain or mine.

When I got the check, I contacted my insurance company to find out where I needed to send the money to reimburse them and they wouldn't accept it.
From then on my insurance went up substaintally and continue to go up until I couldn't afford it anymore. I couldn't get another policy, even though I recovered fully and have had NO lasting effects to this day.

Three years ago, I had a heart attack and was in the hospital 5 days and had a stent. Medical bills were $96,000. I told everybody from the EMTs to the ER, AirLife, the doctors, and the hospital I was airlifed to that that I had no insurance and very little money and if they choose not to treat me for that reason, I would understand and would never try to sue them for nontreatment or whatever. I got excellent medical care from some of the best cardiovascular surgeons in San Antonio. The hospital encouraged me to get on Medicare and just recently the doctor sent me all the paperwook for medicare. I took one look at all the information they wanted and said "NO WAY". So, I pay them what I can afford to each month and my sister has instructions to pay them more with whatever is left from my life insurance after they plant me. If I came into some money the first thing I would do is pay them, but as it is right now, I have no money to pay them more than I do. And after looking closely at the medical bills and seeing all the tests, meds and such they charged me for that I didn't get, they are just gonna have to live with what I pay them. If they want to sue me, they are free to do so. They have a choice. They can either take what I can afford to pay them when I can afford to pay it, or I can file for bankruptcy and they can get nothing. I refuse to feel guilty. My sister works at the hospital and said they write it off and take a tax deduction. And there are thousands of illegals that get the same treatment (and charged for things they DIDN'T get) that I got that don't pay a single dime because they have Medicaid. I don't expect anybody to pay any of my bills except ME!
And I will pay as much of it as I possibly can. It just might take a while.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Yandros
Oh btw, just think, if the drugs weren't illegal then your addiction probably wouldn't even be that big of a deal. Just like quiting smoking.


I can tell you have never done drugs in your life.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by questioningall
reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Let me say this, regarding the universal health care proposed!!

We are the ONLY Industrialized Nation that does NOT provide the most basic need for their citizens - and that is HEALTH CARE!!

Also - I have spent hours/days/weeks trying to get something for myself.

You see - I used to be insured, but a doctor of mine wrote down - I was a little depressed one time - a couple of years ago.

So what happened? The insurance company came to me and said that was a "pre existing condition" and they were DROPPING ME!!

I have NEVER been able to get insurance since - all unaffordable or no coverage but cost a lot!

So - last year I had major medical problems - needed surgery - after calling the hospital getting the cost of 2 nights and 1 hour of surgery time was going to be $16,000 - and they wanted $9000.00 upfront.

That did NOT include, medicine, surgeon, or anything else. So, without any complications and one hour rushed surgery - I was looking at a min. of $25,000.

Guess what - I thought B.S to that - I researched and found Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok Thailand - Flew there - had the BEST medical care of my Life - and had a tremendous amount of complications - 3 hour surgery - 3 nights in a PRIVATE room with a 36" plasma t.v. - granite wet bar - marble bathroom - balcony overlooking Bangkok - Gourmet Food!!

Cost? $5800 FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Now - I am having some difficulties - and I have spent days/hours/weeks trying to get something done - and I can not.

There is lots more to this story - that I won't go into!! BUT

WE NEED HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS - It should be a RIGHT NOT A PRIVILEGE!!

It really is disgusting here in the U.S. that people don't have access to good medical care!

S AND F !!!!


Whoa, what a story, that's great that you found other means...ingenuity is priceless. Unfortunately the only one who will pay for this healthcare overhaul will be the general population, it'll come bite us in the A** in the end, what we need is an overhaul of humanity. It's going to take a lot more than people telling the world we should have this, the people have to change their perspective inside themselves, which doesn't look too promising, unless they go through the looking glass to the unrosy side themselves, they will never understand. It's a sad fact of life.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by piddles

Originally posted by Yandros
Oh btw, just think, if the drugs weren't illegal then your addiction probably wouldn't even be that big of a deal. Just like quiting smoking.


I can tell you have never done drugs in your life.


Yah, because I'm not an idiot.

But logically speaking, if you could go into a chemist and buy your hits for $3 a pop (which is all they really cost) without any license or identification -- full free market style. Then your addiction would be a really bad habit.

High levels of market competition to make the drugs would improve quality and therefore decrease the risk of overdose. You don't hear about Panadol overdoses very often, that is because the pills all have the same consistency of active ingredient. It doesn't change wildly from packet to packet like street drugs do.

If people really want to help addicts the first thing they should support is legalization of drugs. The second thing they should support is charity. Go donate.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by piddles

Originally posted by redhatty
Having a tax liability higher than the money they take out of your paycheck is being a REAL taxpayer.



okay, totally stupid.


if you pay taxes every year, you are a tax payer. there's no hierarchy, no special prize, and most definitely not a first place. if you pay taxes, you are entitled to tax payer provided gov't programs, provided they apply to you.


you are so far up your own ass if you think that's a real tax payer.



I'd also like to add that anybody who knows anything about payroll, will tell you, YOU never get back the tax that's taken for medicaid/medicare and welfare/foodstamps, it's a seperated tax, look on your pay stubs. You never claim that tax on your return. It's the same as ss tax.



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