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Challenge Match: titorite vs Scooby Doo: "The Rife Machine: Valid Machine or scam?"

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posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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The topic for this debate is "The Rife Machine: Suppressed because it works or suppressed because it's a scam?"

titorite will be arguing for the Rife Machine, that it works.
Scooby Doo will argue against the Rife Machine, that it's a scam.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

There is a 10,000 character limit per post.

Any character count in excess of 10,000 will be deleted prior to the judging process.

Editing is strictly forbidden. For reasons of time, mod edits should not be expected except in critical situations.

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post. Each individual post may contain up to 10 sentences of external source material, totaled from all external sources.

Links to multiple pages within a single domain count as 1 reference but there is a maximum of 3 individual links per reference, then further links from that domain count as a new reference. Excess quotes and excess links will be removed before judging.

The Socratic Debate Rule is in effect. Each debater may ask up to 5 questions in each post, except for in closing statements- no questions are permitted in closing statements. These questions should be clearly labeled as "Question 1, Question 2, etc.

When asked a question, a debater must give a straight forward answer in his next post. Explanations and qualifications to an answer are acceptable, but must be preceded by a direct answer.

This Is The Time Limit Policy:

Each debate must post within 24 hours of the timestamp on the last post. If your opponent is late, you may post immediately without waiting for an announcement of turn forfeiture. If you are late, you may post late, unless your opponent has already posted.

Each debater is entitled to one extension of 24 hours. The request should be posted in this thread and is automatically granted- the 24 hour extension begins at the expiration of the previous deadline, not at the time of the extension request.

In the unlikely event that tardiness results in simultaneous posting by both debaters, the late post will be deleted unless it appears in its proper order in the thread.

Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by TheBorg]




posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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OK I thank TheBorg for this assimilating the identification of the situation and transporting our intersecting minds to this debate.

Big thanks to ScoobyDoo For the challenge.

And thanks to everyone else that still finds the debates to be of interesting value for the mind helping in the spirit of the motto which is of course to deny ignorance.


I shall set up the point I have to make which is:
The Rife Machine is suppressed because it works!

Many of you are unfamiliar with the Rife machine. So I shall tell you in detail that it is nothing short of a scientific miracle. It cures diseases via micro current frequencies. Apparently our cells oscillate/ vibrate or maybe resonate is a better word... Anyways certain frequencies can be broadcast that kill dangerous viruses and bacterial harmful to the body.

I have seen folks that tried own personal unit with skepticism in their hearts only to watch them get well from this and that kind of disease.

Now Rife Technology is not known , in practice or theory, to cure genetic disorders or regrow lost limbs or organs. Basically, it just emits a frequency that affects the local area around them and it kills the cells you set it too..

As to why you may of never heard of this from your doctor would be a matter of several reasons. You have the jokers at quackwatch, the cynics of ATS, the skeptics of JREF, and a fringe few that even use Rife Technology let alone know about it. And of the few I have let use this thing... well they get one of their own but few among them are as bold as I because using this thing and say it works publicly is a matter of federal law in regards to what country you maybe referring that this thing works in. The AMA has a strong influence around the world to keep them rich and in charge of YOUR health.

Also Their are fakes out there. Phony rife machines out their that further cause problems in identifying the useful from the scam.Having a long experience with this I can offer an informed opinion on what makes one type different from another and whether or not you have a real or a fake. I look forward to talking about it during this debate.

For further references I would search out the name of the inventor of the Rife Machine, Doctor Royal Raymond Rife. He is the Nikolia Tesla of medicine that is even less known about and the Rife machine is named for HIM!

Its pretty darned cool....

I look forward to reading your thoughts and responding to you ScoobyDoo.

Peace



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by titorite
 


I would first like to thank TheBorg for enabling this debate. And I would also like to thank titorite for accepting this challenge.

I am going to open and guide your minds through my point of view that the Rife Machine is that of a scam and far from a medical miracle.

As titorite commented on in his opening statement "Many of you are unfamiliar with the Rife machine" it may very well be a good thing you don't.

Cancer victims have died deciding to spend big bucks on a machine in which further research suggests can retail up to $1995.00 contains parts that cost no more than $15 to buy.

It is claimed that the Rife Machine produces RF or "pulsed magnetic field" waves tuned to the membranes of bacteria or virus. I failed to find any scientific evidence to back up this claim.

What is more unsettling is that there is no conclusive proof that rife machines are safe, and companies selling rife machines happily promote they will not take responsibitly for your usage of the machine:



We make no claims whatsoever expressed or implied of any cure or for any disease. Dr. Rife's original research has not yet been confirmed by research generally recognized by medical science. The Detox Box is for experimental use only.....

.....Devices and nutritional or other products are not offered to diagnose or prescribe for medical or psychological conditions nor to claim to prevent, treat, mitigate or cure such conditions, nor to recommend specific products as treatment of disease or to provide diagnosis, care, treatment or rehabilitation of individuals, or apply medical, mental health or human development principles, to provide diagnosing, treating, operating or prescribing for any human disease, pain, injury, deformity or physical condition. Any use of the devices is experimental and based upon your informed consent and private license.

www.2detoxify.com...


I look forward reading and replying to your response.

Scooby Doo



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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I ask for that 24 hour extension please.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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In the beginning let me say something about Royal Raymond Rife and the R.I.F.E. machine developed with assistance from Dr. James Bare, D.C. To me They make the same basic claim so I lump both into the same. Any Rife Machine made based on Dr. Royal Rifes work is a Rife machine in my opinion.

Now about Cancer. Many of us have been or may become exposed to it at some personal time in our lives. The Rife Machine Technology Does Not Cause Cancer. It has been observed to do the exact opposite in many personal cases. Unilaterally dismissing your doctors advice on medical treatment will not help you. On the same token it is also always wise to get two doctors so as to have a trusted second opinion.

However the fact maybe that , fake rife machines exist out there does not negate the fact that real ones exist as well as a wide variety of recently patented technologies related to the field radio frequency therapies far beyond TENS units. The original pioneering of devices are ones like his and some have also, recently been found and are currently being used in an experimental manner. These are not devices labeled for entertainment purposes only.

That major difference is important in that people that use them are helping obtain individual results that may vary. Because of the wide field of study it is mostly made up of individual groups that are currently working to get the field of study and results verified , documented and submitted for peer review. Some of the groups even utilize yahoo groups and geo cites amongst the variety of web resources to band together for a common cause. To get the field of study open accepted and implemented.

Normally I would refer folks to www.Rife.org to learn more about Rife technology. Of recent I have noticed that it has been shut down due to unreliable hosting security.. Go Figure.. I aint saying it is a coincidence. With all the recent hype about flus and Health care and what not, access to information like this needs to be restricted to keep it suppressed.

Through out Royal Raymonds life he was subject to arsons destroying his lifes work , baseless law suits against him , which he won, and the defamation of his peers and the A.M.A. in concert with the F.D.A..

This Rife Machine can save lives can cure disease. It is discredited because it can do exactly that AND THAT is a big threat to the currently set up medical system. It is a very real threat to their primary source of income. Treatment of you and me for our ills is what pays their bills. In spite of the Hippocratic Oath these Medical professionals these people need to feed their families too.

Question 1. Understanding all this, is it possible that the medical industry and its lobbyists has a strong motive to Suppress this kind of medical break through?

Despite that some members of the medical profession do risk their "bona fides" when they endorse this kind of therapy. The risk for a medical professional to openly come out and endorses the Rife Technology is the loss of their ability to practice medicine. Knowing that ,very few are willing to risk even talking about it.

In my own time using it I have never and would never tell a person to discontinue conventional medical treatment. This askews the results because one can always say that conventional medicine cured the disease. Despite that my personal goal has always been to help folks. In my time I have seen medical recoveries from two different people having two different types of cancer. After testing results by Their doctors they were considered 100% remission... AKA cancer free. When I have used the rife machine on milder conditions like Psoriasis, Lyme Disease, and other less terminal diseases they have also shown good response to Rife Therapy.

Question 2. Despite my lack of microscopic study, would you say it was safe to infer some kind of connection between the number of folks that have shown recovery after I let them use my machine and the Rife machine it self having some kind of medicinal benefit?

Bear in mind, for the most part of I treated total skeptics and cynics. Folks that expected nothing but used my personal unit to humor others. They got the same results as everyone else. I find it having nothing to do with faith or mind over matter but more with direct science.

A science that can be proven and implemented but to do so would RUIN the medical economy and at times like these another big failure in the economic sector is not what the people need. On the other hand the suppression of the worlds first major medical breakthrough isn't what the world needs either.


What say you?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:18 AM
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Okay, first off I am going to respond to a few comments that you stated in your post.



Now about Cancer. Many of us have been or may become exposed to it at some personal time in our lives. The Rife Machine Technology Does Not Cause Cancer. It has been observed to do the exact opposite in many personal cases. Unilaterally dismissing your doctors advice on medical treatment will not help you.


I never implied it did, I mentioned that a lot of cancer patients have died deciding to use the Rife Machine rather than use conventional medicine. This is an ongoing trend that we are seeing from patients, who contest against modern therapy and prefer to be lured into a medical loophole that is the Rife Machine.

I was recently reading a report that barely any machines sold on the market intended as Rife devices, actually employ any of Rife's ideas or requirements.

Rife's design and machine was never patented and original documentation were confiscated, which made it hard to duplicate or recreate Rife's original design. So if this is the case, maybe all machines on the market are that of a scam?

The FDA certainly thinks so, in fact they have prohibited its use in the United States declaring it illegal.



Question 1. Understanding all this, is it possible that the medical industry and its lobbyists has a strong motive to Suppress this kind of medical break through?


Unlikely. It is being blocked out of medicinal use as it has failed to show proof that is actually works. I am yet to read a doctors report suggesting it has. A lot of the claims made of what the Rife Machine can produce are highly far-fetched and within my studies as I am in medicine, I failed to find scientific research that can show these effect may happen.



Question 2. Despite my lack of microscopic study, would you say it was safe to infer some kind of connection between the number of folks that have shown recovery after I let them use my machine and the Rife machine it self having some kind of medicinal benefit?


This again brings up my point that there has been no physical evidence, not that I know of - not that has been officially verified as authentic - that I nor you can produce.



A science that can be proven and implemented but to do so would RUIN the medical economy and at times like these another big failure in the economic sector is not what the people need. On the other hand the suppression of the worlds first major medical breakthrough isn't what the world needs either.


First off, I am not sure how this would effect medical economy. It would more likely go into bankruptcy as it holds no weight in the medical community. But on the very slim chance it were a success, it would more or less help the economy.

Second, how is this the worlds first major medical breakthrough? THERE IS NO PROOF. I can produce you proof of radiation therapy, chemotherapy, pace makers, artificial/replacement valves and a lot of other modern day medical breakthroughs, but I fail to see how you regard the Rife Machine as "the worlds first major medical breakthrough".

Question 1. What scientific proof, i.e. medical reports or patient/doctor statement etc. can you produce to convince me this is "the worlds first major medical breakthrough? and...

Question 2. What is your comments on the fact that companies retail this machine for up to $2000USD, when the parts to make this machine can be bought for between $15-$100USD?

I am looking forward to your thoughts.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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When I said worlds first major breakthrough I should of included of its kind. I mean learning to wash your hands to stop the spread of germs is an impressive medical break through and I gotta say that I believe it predates the invention of Rifes' Machine. So yes first medical breakthrough of its kind would of been the more proper way to state the Dr. Rife Pioneered radio frequency therapy.

So to answer your first question, I should of spoke in context. The First medical break through of its kind. Now as to "medical reports or patient/doctor statement" in regards to that context;


A report from the Smithsonian Institution in 1944 validates Rife's work. Titled "The New Microscope" by Dr. R.E. Seidel (report #3781) it states "Under the Universal Microscope disease organisms such as those of cancer ... and other disease may be observed to succumb when exposed to certain lethal frequencies..." In layman's terms, that means they used the Universal Microscope to watch as they used a frequency generator to kill certain virus cells, such as cancer. This report confirms... Rife's frequency therapy did work!

This virus death ray was applied to cancers in rats and it worked. The next step was humans. The results were astounding. "14 out of 16 terminal patients cured!"
Here is Dr. Royal Rife's report summary: "The first clinical work on cancer was completed under the supervision of Milbank Johnson, M.D., which was setup under a special medical research committee of the University of Southern California. Sixteen cases were treated at the clinic for many types of malignancy. After just 3 months, 14 of these so-called hopeless cases were signed off as clinically cured by a staff of medical doctors and Alvin G. Ford, M. D., pathologist for the group."

(Note: At the time of the study's conclusion, the remaining 2 people were not cancer free; however, it is known that the other patients did eventually recover under Dr. Rife's supervision.


From Here

But this only cites historical references from the Smithsonian Institution.

Here are some references on other Electromagnetic Therapies or Radio Frequency depending on how one wants to address the subject... Meaning its no different from calling boxing pugilism.


Description

Electromagnetic therapy involves the use of energy to diagnose or treat disease. Electromagnetic energy includes electricity, microwaves, radio waves, and infrared rays, as well as electrically generated magnetic fields. Although light is also a type of electromagnetic energy, light therapy is addressed in a separate document (see Light Therapy).


From The American Cancer Society

By that definition Rife would be the pioneering medical researcher to study the phenomena and with recorded success too. I have heard that Tesla had some concept of Rifes Ideas but history shows Tesla Took to a different field of science ,and not with any prominence, medicine.

However, in recent news new folks have discovered interesting variations of radio frequency healing.


But the invention has attracted interest and praise from the small group of doctors who are aware of it. Kanzius also says some biotech firms have expressed interest in financing its development, though he wouldn't name them.

He applied in May for a patent on his invention, which combines a device for focusing radio waves on cancer cells with an as-yet undisclosed technique for sensitizing cancer cells to the effects of radio frequency radiation.

He said his attorneys had cautioned him against revealing details of his invention until the patent is approved. But doctors who have reviewed it under confidentiality agreements are enthusiastic about Kanzius' unlikely creation.

One of them, Dr. Robert J. McDonald, director of nuclear medicine at the Southwest Florida Regional Medical Center in Fort Myers, Fla., said the invention was "absolutely amazing" and "pretty incredible."



From here

Their are other Radio frequency therapies today for varicose veins and enlarged prostate and more various cancers too.And yet with all this proof that radiowave frequency does affect us physically it is not a method of treatment used to cure cancer. Raidowave frequency can be FDA approved to treat wrinkles but not Cancer. Ironic isn't?

Anyways if you require more empirical evidence you can find various photos and Video of Rife in his work as he actively and methodically filmed and photographed and otherwise documented his work. His scientific method is not in question considered his level of scrutiny for the 1920.1930s. But you may still want to see some of those slides and videos. Some you can find online others you may have to travel to the Smithsonian to study in person... like culture slides and what not.

Now onto question two!

You asked me about my comments on the fact that companies retail this machine for up to $2000USD, when the parts to make this machine can be bought for between $15-$100USD?

I think I overpaid for my unit. But I also think its is worth its weight in gold, literally. It is not as good or precise as other units but it is what has given my the majority of my interaction with Rife Technology and the Radio Frequency Healing therapy Rife Technology uses. I have seen the 30 day free trial version that can utilize your computer to generate precise radio frequencies. I have also sat in front a VIBE machine and have some thoughts about it as it cost 10,000$ Which is about the same price of a fully functional close as possible reproduction of the original Rife Devices. Beam Ray and all. The reason the higher end models cost more is reflective of their superior quality. Basically, I think some folks are more proud of their own particular rife unit model than others, and that the more prideful folks charge more for their machines.

I have seen the cheapest Rife CDs for as low as .99 cents. On ebay. Which is still .99 cents more than the free 30 day trial version. Some folks are working with all their might to get this thing better understood and more thoroughly tested and other folks want to make a buck when they help. Its the way of the world. What more can I say?


Now when I asked you about your thoughts you said that you thought that if it worked it would help the economy.

Question 1 How would a Scientific Miracle Machine that could kill all harmful viral and Bacterial infection received by you personally as a medical professional IE: You have this SMM and seen it work in all satisfaction to your observation. How would you deal with it?

Secondary follow up, Question 2
If you saw this Scientific Miracle Machine go into continuing clinical trials for 80 years before being approved would that be an acceptable amount of time to determine if this device works?


At this time, I'd like to attempt to correct something you said in your prior post.


The FDA certainly thinks so, in fact they have prohibited its use in the United States declaring it illegal.


Now this, to my knowledge is not entirely accurate. You can use it to your hearts contents but you can not openly promote the idea that it works as a medical device to cure disease when you use it... It is the making of the claim that it works that is outlawed.


So it would seem to be a conspiracy of silence to me. Considering on the one side you have folks willing to go to jail, who methodically document and video record their findings, turn them over for peer reviews only to be rejected because of lack of medical "Bona Fides" or other trumped up reasons to be ignored. To say it works is criminal so what do we attribute our observations to when we see folks over come diseases like multipe myoloma or Psoriasis. Both interesting disease and both incurable allegedly but I have seen folks recover from both after using my machine. Is the legal thing to do, give god the credit for those folks getting healed?

How scientific no?

Question 3

Assuming this machine works and people that used it would be disease free and that this machine can be mass produced and widely utilized what could we expect from the world wide impact of people no longer dying of disease but only by accident and violent tragedy.... People age badly and die early because of preventable disease but this could even treat their indiscretions of indulgence. How would the world react if this device would let us all die old and long lived of nothing more than the wear and tear of old age?

Question 4 Has the FDA or AMA ever been caught manipulating results of any clinical trials of medicines and therapies to get certain ones to pass or fail and thus control the market of what is and is not acceptable drugs and treatment options for the sick? In other words has any of those bureaucrats ever get caught cheating the people of proper medical advancements?

The floor is yours my friend.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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I choose to use my 24hr extension please.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by titorite
 


Thank you to both titorite and TheBorg for allowing me extra time to sort out some personal issues, that have finally after time been resolved.

After recent research I have found that the "original" rife machine may have been acceptable for use Under Close Scrutiny. However, for it to be fully usable and excepted by medical institutes it would have to go through a lot of testing. From my research, the only testing conducted was by Rife himself.

You titorite clearly explained you have indeed attempted your own research and experiments. However, now my argument turns to whether both yours and most of the "Rife Machines" on the market are really even close to the original rife design.

Whilst roaming the web searching for distributors, I came across the following statement at a Medical Research Website:



Please note that the Rife machine used today is not the Rife in its original form and no medical claims can be made for this technology. Modified versions such as the Rife-Bare device are today's modern incarnations of the original Rife machine. However it should be highlighted that the original machine was not given FDA approval which is partly why it has been modified for today's market.


From here

Now if I read that correctly, that verifies my thoery that all machines on the market claiming they are of "Rife Technology" are far from telling the truth. They may follow in Rifes idea, but certainly not the same product.

As I stated in an earlier post, Rife failed to patent his product and many of the original designs and blueprints of his technology was confiscated and later lost. So my question to you is why do most of the machines on the market carry the name "Rife" or falsely state they use "Rife Technology" when they truly don't?

Question 1: I believe you are asking me what I would do if I myself discovered and saw first hand the Rife Machine working successfully?

If I could find enough evidence to prove that it worked, or had successful claims from my patients, then I would work to promote the device for further testing. And if trials were a success I would promote the device.

Question 2:80 years? That is more than acceptable time for testing. What needs more attention however is the fact that the machine clearly does not exist any more. Instead, the market has been flooded with products suggesting Rife Technology and it clearly is not.



Now this, to my knowledge is not entirely accurate. You can use it to your hearts contents but you can not openly promote the idea that it works as a medical device to cure disease when you use it... It is the making of the claim that it works that is outlawed.


And one of the main reasons the FDA has outlawed claims is because of falsely stated products claiming Rife technology.

Question 3: Well, since one of the claims of the "Rife Machine" is cancer recovery, I found the following statistics from 2002.



Estimated new cancer cases in the United States for the year 2002, according to the American Cancer Society (Year 2002 Surveillance Research from the American Cancer Society). It is estimated that about 555,500 Americans will die from cancer, corresponding to 1,500 deaths per day. Cancers of the lung and bronchus, prostate, and colon and rectum in men, and cancers of the lung and bronchus, breast, and colon and rectum in women continue to be the most common causes of cancer deaths. These four cancers account for more than half of the total cancer deaths among men and women. Lung cancer has surpassed breast cancer as the leading cause of cancer death in women since 1987 and is expected to account for about 25 percent of all female cancer deaths in 2002.


From www.cancure.org...

From doing the maths, with people that have died from cancer alone, compared with people whom have died from natural causes, the mortality rate of sufferers would be somewhere around 20%.



How would the world react if this device would let us all die old and long lived of nothing more than the wear and tear of old age?


This is my counter argument that many cancer sufferers are or may become terminal. This percentage is usually up around 40% of cancer sufferers world wide.

Question 4: No one could answer this question. If I wanted, I could counter this question and ask you whether any companies promoting the Rife Machine have paid users and/or doctors to make false claims of the Rifes success or manipulated trial results.

As far as I know, no one within the FDA have been caught manipulating results of trials. Nor have I found evidence of any government officials being held responsible of such act.

My question and only question at this time for you is: As it has been proven most if not all products on the market are not the same as the original Rife design, why are companies still promoting the sell "Rife Machines" or use "Rife Technology"?

Back to you.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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To answer your question,

The Current Rife units today are only different from the originals as technology has advanced. It IS the same basic machine. Much like TVs of the 1930s look nothing like the TVs of Today. Today we have Interactive Television, High Def TV, Even Holographic TV despite the lack of market. But it is still the same basic TV. Same thing with the Rife Machine. Later in his life , with help from Bare and Crane and probably more I am neglecting to mention , he switched from using light as the carrier wave to an audio carrier wave because it was cheaper and more folks could afford it.

But it is still a Rife machine, It still cures cancer. All cancers. And most diseases.
It cant cure chromosomal disorders or regenerate lost tissue BUT if it is a virus or a bacteria then the Rife machine can kill it.

Now as for the research, it was done in the 1930s. And it was done in a clinical setting for the time.


In another letter in 1935, he (Dr. Milbank Johnson of Pasadena) says that the results were "not conclusive" - it is thought that some patients had responded well to the treatments from the Rife Ray machine, but that Johnson was not convinced that such a speedy recovery was necessarily the same thing as a "cure" - although apparently Royal Rife considered them "cured." Dr. Johnson also wrote later that he had run the clinic by himself, to prove what the Rife Ray machine could do in vitro - in the body. Mr. Rife was almost certainly not present for most of this clinic, but may have come around occasionally to help or to observe


From Here

Some clinical trials were done. But more were called for. And so it has gone on for more then 80 years. More than enough time to be able to determine if it really does work or not. And yet it remains shunned by modern medical science. The only motive I can see for the black balling of the Rife machine is money. The machine works as advertised. What that means, is that it can cure a disease that most doctors make millions in attempting to cure with chemicals. Pills, Syrups, Radiation and more and yet nothing is so powerful as the Rife machine and it is precisely because it can take money out of the medical establishments hands that it represents a threat that must be squashed in order to protect their income.

If it was just a matter of protecting the public health then they could acknowledge repeated requests for further study. But FDA does not. Despite slides, video, testimonials, and evidence upon evidence the FDA has refused further clinical trials of the Rife technology. The do not even acknowledge the folks that send them the evidence. I speak from my experience from the Lyme Rife yahoo group.

Of all the groups attempting to get this technology accepted in modern medicine they are working the hardest.

QUESTION 1: How is this technology supposed to become "mainstream" if the FDA will not conduct further clinical trials with Rife technology?


QUESTION 2: What field of medicine are you in?

Now you said


If I could find enough evidence to prove that it worked, or had successful claims from my patients, then I would work to promote the device for further testing. And if trials were a success I would promote the device.


OK good deal. Now my next question.

Question 3: Would you consider it ethical, If you knew this worked, to use it on sick folk while it was under testing?

Let me go into detail. You as medical professional have this device that you know works. You would attempt to get it into clinical trails but in the mean time would you think it would be ok to prescribe or suggest the use of this machine IN CONJUNCTION WITH currently approved treatment options?

Question four: As a medical professional is this debate the very first time you have heard about the rife machine?

Ok then... Your turn my good man.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by titorite
 




But it is still a Rife machine, It still cures cancer. All cancers. And most diseases.


Well, that completely contradicts the argument. Cancer? I can not find any justifiable evidence to prove that it does, whether it be the original or newer models of "Rife Machines". Lets be honest with each other, that was quite an over-statement to say it "cures cancer".

The thing is that you yourself said the machine is not banned, companies are just banned from promoting that it works. If this is the case, most people are able to purchase or use a Rife Machine. So why don't we see more people using them? Because they do not trust the product.

Why should cancer sufferers put their health in the hands of a machine that is said to work, but never fully proved to work?

QUESTION 1: FDA may never properly take the time to test "The Rife Machine" or similar products. Clinical trials may need to be privately funded in order to get official results.

QUESTION 2: I am in Pediatric medicine (Kids) with a background in Biomedical Engineering.

QUESTION 3: I feel that I would find it unethical if any professional were to forward their personal views/opinions on their patients, even if it indeed was proven to work. I feel the overall issue would the patients taking offense to a professional promoting an "alternative" device.

and Question four: This debate has indeed been my first time encountering the Rife Machine.

My question to you is, as a user and possible promoter of the Rife Machine, if clinical trials were conducted either private or by the FDA and was proven that it did not work, what would be the effect on you and/or the other users?

The floor is back to you my friend...



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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AHHHHHHH!!!

I just did the counting and discovered that this is my closing statement.

It has been great debating this issue with you Scooby!

Let me do this the way I like to do it best...which may be my hiccup all the same I want to answer you.


My question to you is, as a user and possible promoter of the Rife Machine, if clinical trials were conducted either private or by the FDA and was proven that it did not work, what would be the effect on you and/or the other users?


I do promote it but only for free because of my experience. I am a user but I admit I do not use it as often as I should... In the beginning I used it ALOT As did many others... but I have had it for years now... so now these days...let us just say I should use it more often. But to address your question directly...

IF the clinical trial was proven nil... I do not know what I would do.

That is as direct as I can be...

I mean I have seen it work. On cynics. Coerced into giving my Rife Unit a try they were REAL cynics humoring loved ones. Thats why I say this is a scientific marvel. Faith is not placebicaly required for this thing to work.... IF the FDA conducted another clinical trial resulting in a negative for the Rife Treatment I would not be surprised.

From everything you have told me I can say that you have not been in pediatrics for very long... You are a sub type of a general practitioner and a good guy who has had to deal with alot. My brother in law is currently studying at Ross University. 11 years of paramedical duty in austin. And for ten points if you can find he who had the most saves then you ...can find him!!!!

He also is going into pediatrics.

It has been my experience that older longer practicing doctors are normally the ones who have heard about the RIFE MACHINE. It is a bit of an urban legend in your field of work.

If you do decide to pursue it do so with caution. I am a RMT. The least of the least among physical therapists. But I take it all seriously. I have had training in sport therapy and studied neromuscular therapy and Rekki. Minimal but observable.

But not relevant.

Ever since I found out about the rife machine I have kinda.... drifted from physical therapy. The Rife machine works so well!!! The web site I bought it from is now altered. The research site I direct folks to has been compromised...rife.org.... Dead.... hackers...

Strange because of its intellectual relevance.But I drift.

It works.

If the FDA said it did not work I would say Try it. I have folks try it for free. I never tell them to discontinue conventional treatment.

Point being is that some folks think it works. We organize into groups and even hire junior lobbyists ... But reality is what it is.

What you have is folks who pay out of pocket to test this machine. Then they forward their results to other doctors.

Then they are ignored..

And if that is not suppression then I do not know what is.

I would like to thank the Borg for helping to set this up, Scooby for the challenge and Doctor Royal Raymond Rife for giving us the topic to debate and the machine to use.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by titorite
 


I also just realized that it was time for our closing statements. It has been an interesting and eye opening debate. Seeing this is both my first time researching the Rife Machine, I have seen a window of opportunity that under deeper research may hold some valuable information.



From everything you have told me I can say that you have not been in pediatrics for very long...


Indeed you would be right. I am currently studying pediatric medicine in and hope to graduate within the next 3 years and move onto Immunology. I never thought a couple of years ago that medicine would become a passion and an interest for me, but anything is possible.

So, in conclusion I would like to thank TheBorg for both helping us make this debate possible and answering my "debate forum newbie" questions as this has been my very first and hopefully not last debate at ATS.

I would like to thank my opponent titorite for taking the time to debate this topic with me. I truly appreciate it.

And finally thank you to everyone who has flagged our debate, and taken the time to read and star our posts.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:30 AM
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And we're off to the judges!!! Please be patient while the judgment is rendered.

TheBorg
Forum Member and Moderator

Edit to add:

After almost a month, we've got a judgment!! I'd like to first thank everyone that's taken the time to read this debate for doing so, and another special thank you to the judges that took their time to help out with this. It doesn't go unnoticed.

Of course, this debate couldn't have happened without the two members doing the debating: titorite and Scooby Doo. THANK YOU BOTH as well.

That being said, what follows are the judgments I received.



They were both very good and sincere in their debating style and conviction of issue, but over all I'd have to say the winner of the debate is Scoobydoo.




On carefull concideration I will have to say that I think titorite gave the most compelling and well thought out debate, and therefore I think Wins.





While the debate in whole, did not knock my socks off

The fighter who showed me that they carried the battle to the end was titorite.

Scooby Doo faded and the last post prior to the closing statement seemed like going through the motions to get to the end.

Neither side convinced me of their argument but for putting in the most effort, I would give the nod to ...

titorite


So, we have titorite with 2 votes and Scooby Doo with 1.

titorite, congratulations!!!

Both of you should know that this was an excellent debate, and even though it took a while to get it judged, it was definitely one of the more interesting ones that I've seen.

You both did an amazing job, and I can't wait to see the next debates you guys have!!

TheBorg

[edit on 26-9-2009 by TheBorg]





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