Income Inequality Is At An All-Time High: STUDY

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

As to the Ford F-150 pickup truck your focused on, I've never owned one, and don't plan on buying one. I currently drive a Jeep Compass.

I ma not focused on it I am using it as an example too our current buying power and why we dont need to rely on the rest of the world to buy our products. That is the only argument for not having tariffs is that you dont want to curb the rest of the world buying our products.

Guess what.

The rest of the world is convinced we only build junk. they are not nor will they in the foreseeable future buy our products.

We need to have a multifaceted attack to get our middle class back to where it was.

One is we need to get rid of the federal reserve. Second we need to make the elite pay they're share. Third we need to have a tax on imported goods from countries that are not playing on a level field. Fourth we need to severely reduce our military spending and get rid of our bases worldwide. Then we need to take that money to not only pay off our debt, but reinvest it into our infrastructure. Fifth we need to get rid of the lobbyists that are controlling the direction of our nation.

You know why we cant compete in the Japanese car market? Because they use the money they do not have to spend on a staggering military budget and they use that to help with the Research and Development of they're car market.

The problem is, we have been trained to be on either one side or another. everyone here has so very valid points. The problem is we need a party that can embrace the best of both ideologies, and come up with a plan that works. You must admit either side is not completely correct.

Points from both sides that are vaild:

Corporations should be punished for taking jobs out of america for profit/greed

Loops holes in taxes need to be cut out.

Lack of work ethic in this country is appalling. The poor and middle class need to remember during these great times in the past, the working class worked hard, because it was proud, it stood by its morals and this is why we became a super power. You cannot complain the past was better if you do not have the work ethic to be that.

People should not be penalized for success, as long as that success is not done on the backs of foreign labor.

both sides are right and wrong..

I sometimes wish the dollar was only worth anything in America, the you would see some innovation, job creation, jobs stayng in America..

But I Digest ... =)

reply to post by yellowcard

You read a lot into what I say...doesn't mean you're right however...just means you have an active imagination.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
The rest of the world is convinced we only build junk. they are not nor will they in the foreseeable future buy our products.

We need to have a multifaceted attack to get our middle class back to where it was.

One is we need to get rid of the federal reserve. Second we need to make the elite pay they're share. Third we need to have a tax on imported goods from countries that are not playing on a level field. Fourth we need to severely reduce our military spending and get rid of our bases worldwide. Then we need to take that money to not only pay off our debt, but reinvest it into our infrastructure. Fifth we need to get rid of the lobbyists that are controlling the direction of our nation.

You know why we cant compete in the Japanese car market? Because they use the money they do not have to spend on a staggering military budget and they use that to help with the Research and Development of they're car market.

I agree with everything you said, except for "make the elite pay their share" and "tax imported goods." When you tax imported goods, how do you think the other country is going to react? They are going to tax your goods, you are just putting up walls, and shrinking both markets. The "rich" already pay their fair share, they pay a larger percentage of taxes than any other. I say we should all have an equal tax rate, the rich should not be be rewarded nor punished because they are rich, and the poor should not be rewarded or punished because they are poor. If it were up to me, we'd cut out most all Federal spending, get rid of the income tax, abolish business taxes on the Federal level (leave it to the states), etc. The only thing the Federal government would do is have defense (not offense) and a law and judicial system, with other minor powers delegated or granted by the Constitution (though the Constitution actually denies the government rights...but you know what I mean).

[edit on 15-8-2009 by yellowcard]

reply to post by Sestias


Very well said, Sestias. A lot more level-headed than grover's extremely left-of-center bias.

Originally posted by yellowcard



I agree with everything you said, except for "make the elite pay their share" and "tax imported goods." When you tax imported goods, how do you think the other country is going to react? They are going to tax your goods, you are just putting up walls, and shrinking both markets. The "rich" already pay their fair share, they pay a larger percentage of taxes than any other.

The elite do not pay they're fair share in taxes. They have so many loopholes they pay only a fraction of what they should. Why are you being a shill for the elite? Do you think they give a damn about you and your family?

You state that taxing imported goods will put up walls. They ARE NOT BUYING OUR GOODS ANYWAY. The countries that do buy our goods are on the same playing field as us. you dont Tax all imports just the ones that are not playing fairly. Like China.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by yellowcard



I agree with everything you said, except for "make the elite pay their share" and "tax imported goods." When you tax imported goods, how do you think the other country is going to react? They are going to tax your goods, you are just putting up walls, and shrinking both markets. The "rich" already pay their fair share, they pay a larger percentage of taxes than any other.

The elite do not pay they're fair share in taxes. They have so many loopholes they pay only a fraction of what they should. Why are you being a shill for the elite? Do you think they give a damn about you and your family?

You state that taxing imported goods will put up walls. They ARE NOT BUYING OUR GOODS ANYWAY. The countries that do buy our goods are on the same playing field as us. you dont Tax all imports just the ones that are not playing fairly. Like China.

I don't think anyone gives a damn about anyone but themselves (the people in the "middle class" really seemed to care for the man who was hit by a car and laid in the middle of the street while everyone went along their marry way...then he died), and the "rich" pay for most of the taxes in the country, 30%+ of Americans don't even pay taxes. No country gains from tariffs, it's a bad idea in any case. If you can't compete with their products then you aren't doing something right...maybe it's that our taxes are too high across the board. I'm not rich, I want everyone to be wealthy, but I know that taxing the rich to "pay their share" is bullcrap. They do have tax loopholes, and I think those are a result of taxes being too high in the first place...get rid of loopholes, and lower taxes. If you tax anyone too heavily, especially an entity or person with options in a global economy they are just going to move abroad, move their accounts off shore and not invest in your markets. No Tariffs, low taxes, small government, free trade...that's the path to prosperity.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by yellowcard]

reply to post by yellowcard


So how is a civilized people supposed to compete with near slave labor?

Tell me. Why would you think its fair to compete with that? Your not making any sense, stop and think about it before you try so hard to stick to what the corporations propaganda spread to form your opinion.

They do this mostly by word of mouth and it spreads to the point that you think its your opinion.

Santa's Workshop

Google Video Link

If you watch this video you should also watch others on this horrible life these people have to live you would understand that no humane people can compete with this.

You will one day work for much less than you do just to survive because the elite are ruthless and are crashing our economy to get us to work for less.

Why is it that before the 80's Americans got decent wages and the factories and the elite still made good profit. You think they cant now? They want more an more they will not be satisfied until we all work for just the ability to survive.

How do you condone this? Please I want an explanation how you can justify all this? This is the legacy you want to leave?

WAKE UP!

Stop listening to the propaganda of any outside influence and listen to what your inner self is telling you.

I would rather die fighting this than to be a slave to the elite.


This is no way for things to be.


By the grace of the creator may we all become more enlightened and put an end to the bottomless greed of these monsters that are controlling this world.

We the regular people need to end this greed and make it a better world. Why have a future that is worst than the past. This is not progress.

This is nothing but unadulterated greed that has made you think we have to compete with this. They want everyone to not see the light and keep letting all this happen.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by LoneGunMan]

Star and flag for this post and it is a real eye opener for those that think their is still a free-market, where a man or woman can tighten their boot straps and work an honest days work and receive a respectable wage. Sadly those days are long gone.

The reason I say that, is from what my Grandfather shared with me about how he made it with nothing. Let me delve into his story a little bit if I may, he was an orphan at a young age and during the heights of the depression. He went to live with a distant aunt after the untimely deaths of this parents and she horded the clothes and food for her own children while he got the crumbs. So at 13 or 14 he emancipated himself from that depravity and road the rails out west to the Pacific Northwest and California. He worked odd jobs here and there to get by. Then WWII broke out and he enlisted without a moments notice! He joined the Navy in a construction battalion while serving in the Pacific building military installations. After the war, he settled in Hawaii for a time, and used his government benefits to attain credentials as a plumber/pipe-fitter. After that, he relocated to midwest and became a Union plumber. He never had anything bad to say about them and how they made sure that their needs where met when working on projects. He made a pretty good life for his family and by only starting with the rags on his back to boot.

However, with the current scheme of things, it is hard to believe that his story can happen now-a-days. Once one hits the bottom financially, it is almost impossible for someone to crawl out of it. The elites use a three digit number to accomplish that. I think the current situation is hording no more and no less. We all were taught to share when we were children, well most of us I would think.?However, I think the elite's let their greed consume them almost to the state of madness. How many Mercedes or summer homes can one person have? I'm not looking for a distribution of wealth by any means, but I am looking for fairness and receiving an honest wage for an honest days work. However, that instance is so rare right now and this report should validate that claim. If you aren't juiced in, then you have no chance of attaining any wealth or stature. It is very plain and simple, but wrong.

I don't believe one particular group of society should be taxed more than the other. The tax issue is the third-rail and there is a clear double standard with that set up as well. Maybe a flat-tax would be in order or possible abolishing income tax altogether and phasing in a sales tax? Who really knows, but something definitely stinks with the findings in this report.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
reply to post by yellowcard

 

So how is a civilized people supposed to compete with near slave labor?
[edit on 16-8-2009 by LoneGunMan]

a) this "slave labor" you speak of also benefits and is lifted out of poverty over time, b) you benefit from this "slave labor" with lower costs c) if these "slaves" don't have a job at all (they do make money)...then how does that make them better off at all?

Use your head for a second, it's not propaganda...it's common sense. These people won't make much money are first, TRUE...neither did a civilized society during its beginnings. Look at Hong Kong, it used to be rice fields and now it's a commercial capital. Let me say that again, those people used to be wading in dirt, and now they penthouses! All because of the free market. Then look at Eastern Europe, a society that was funded by the government, but was once a great society pre-World War 2...but it got stuck in the mindset of wealth redistribution; now it's more or less a third world set of countries. I'm looking at evidence, and you're looking at a fairytale.

We are not slaves to the rich, we are slaves to Washington. Washington has given power to the rich, true...but not through tax cuts.; but through subsidies, through special interest projects. (and when I say slaves, I don't mean people who are whipped into submission, but people who are lured into submission with promises; so don't bother to give me a "this is real slavery" bullcrap.)

Originally posted by yellowcard

a) this "slave labor" you speak of also benefits and is lifted out of poverty over time, b) you benefit from this "slave labor" with lower costs c) if these "slaves" don't have a job at all (they do make money)...then how does that make them better off at all?

Use your head for a second, it's not propaganda...

This is the last time I will try and get through to you.

You said if we cant compete then there is something wrong with us.

I said a nation like ours cannot compete and keep our factories when we are up against slave labor. Did you watch the documentary? These people work from 6:00 am to midnight on a normal shift. Overtime is 24 hours a day. They still make so little they have to live in the factories in dorms.

In the documentary the Chinese say these people that migrate in from the outer areas would be better off if they did not have these factory jobs, the problem is they used all they're resources tog et there and are trapped.

Just because they get paid a small penance doesn't mean its not slave labor.

You should have watched the documentary before you commented.

Benito Mussolini would be quite proud of you.

You said we should not have tariffs to protect our jobs from these countries with slave labor. Why not? They dont buy anything of importance to our economy.

You mentioned we are able to buy item cheaper.

How much do you think it takes in labor to make a profit on $60-$100 dollar Nike shoes? Or $20 dollar dress shirts? These corporations can mass produce these things in the USA paying $10-$15 dollars per hour and still make huge profit and still keep the prices where they are at. With modern production you could make 60 shoes an hour.

Only a slight savings is passed onto you the rest is kept for profit in trade for our jobs. Not a good trade. You need to think it all out more....you need to educate yourself on how the real world works. The major costs of living are not the trinkets we get from China. It is housing and energy.

We need to protect our jobs. The countries we need to have tariffs to protect our jobs will not come up to the proper labor standards short of revolution. If they try and raise they're standards they are arrested.

Originally posted by yellowcard
...but it got stuck in the mindset of wealth redistribution; now it's more or less a third world set of countries. I'm looking at evidence, and you're looking at a fairytale.

Sorry but the reason for this was because they were under a despotic rule and the power shifted hands from the wealthy to the despots in the government. If they had instead of shifting power in that direction and just gave a bigger piece of the pie to a middle class everything would have been different.

Like we were in the 1950's through the 1970's. I was raised with only my father working a GM, my mother stayed home and raised my brother and I. GM was making record profits at the time...the reason they got in the position they are in now was greed at the top. The other reason is the Japanese do not spend its nations wealth on its military and they use it to help the car factories in research and development.

You need to throw your TV away as soon as you can.



[edit on 16-8-2009 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by grover
second of all his argument proves the fallacy of the whole trickle down economics argument...since the rich according to it invest and create jobs...here for Americans. And he is arguing that trickle down works...elsewhere...but why bother giving tax breaks to those who do not invest in their country?

Sigh - my time is short here at the moment, but I wanted to comment on this.

Yes - I think this hits a large nail of the problem on the head. The companies and the rich do invest and create jobs. They just are not doing it here. They go elsewhere where everything is cheaper.

If the trend continues the currently "leveling" of the world will continue. If it doesn't change about all I can see happening is the "middle class" of other countries (such as BRIC) will rise in standard and wealth. The middle class in the US (and Europe) will fall in standard and wealth. The few wealthy around the world will get more wealthy. The divide will continue to grow globally.

I'm not sure if that is what is intended or not - but it is the trend I see.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

I want to know what I said was so extremely left of center.

I never said distribute the wealth of the nation equally...I said that the nation benefits when the wealth of the nation is more broadly based as opposed to pyramided up at the top...a totally different thing all together.

As for yellowcard every time he addresses me he has something insulting to say which really does nothing except make him look petty and small....and wrong.

His idea that working in third world sweat shops ultimately rises the people there up out of poverty and since their goods are sold here makes trickle down economy worthwhile is laughable...

If he really believes that he should go look at the record. Those people remain almost slaves since many of the companies do what many of the old mining companies did here in the south....they owned the mines, they owned the towns and they owned the stores so they controlled access to services and goods that their employees could buy and so keeping them in a prepetual state of debt to their employer...does he think those dorms they live in are supplied for free?
HA!!!

Besides that the jobs created here in the retail sector don't even come to replacing the incomes lost in manufacturing. Not even close...

I hardly call that prosperity.

Also he claims that money is not being pyramided to the top and hoarded.

Where does he think the monies lost to the shrinking middle classes goes?

It doesn't evaporate and a job at the Gap or McDonalds does not make up for the income of the job lost at the mill.

reply to post by grover

not to mention,
if they are serious about wanting to control global warming by restricting the pollution that causes it, well...
it does no good to restrict it here when all of our manufacturing is being sent into countries that have no restrictions whatsoever!!
you are not helping anyone but yourself, maybe...if you are poisoning the workers and their families for your cheap products!