'Thomas Paine' calls on Americans to stand up and fight for their country, page 1

Originally posted at FOX News on Hannity's video area...

Here are the latest rousing words from Bob Basso aka Thomas Paine.




For the complete collection ... see SpartanKingLeonidas's post where he embedded all of the Thomas Paine YouTube video's

Surprising that this one isn't posted on YouTube yet (couldn't find it there yet so I uploaded it here to ATS.)

Is Thomas Paine out of his mind? Or is he flying the American colors?

Great video! youtube here by the way.

I am glad people are rising up, it is good to see. For all you Americans I hope you are successful!

reply to post by DrMattMaddix

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I don't think Funbob-o here could disrespect the memory of Thomas Paine any more if he had opened up the man's casket and lay a chunky turd in his eye socket.

reply to post by Lasheic

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Not sure how you can come to that conclusion.

I'm all eyes to read ... why does he do disrespect to the memory of Thomas Paine?

reply to post by DrMattMaddix

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F'ing awesome

great post s/f and a cold one for ya

nice to see this is going on FOX of all places

reply to post by DrMattMaddix

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Since you're all eyes for reading, might I suggest you start with Paine's own words.

Agrarian Justice: Using Death and Property taxes to provide a common fund for which all citizens are given a living stipend, greater for older citizens. I.E. Public Welfare and Social Security.

While, therefore, I advocate the right, and interest myself in the hard case of all those who have been thrown out of their natural inheritance by the introduction of the system of landed property, I equally defend the right of the possessor to the part which is his. Cultivation is at least one of the greatest natural improvements ever made by human invention. It has given to created earth a tenfold value. But the landed monopoly that began with it has produced the greatest evil. It has dispossessed more than half the inhabitants of every nation of their natural inheritance, without providing for them, as ought to have been done, an indemnification for that loss, and has thereby created a species of poverty and wretchedness that did not exist before. In advocating the case of the persons thus dispossessed, it is a right, and not a charity, that I am pleading for. But it is that kind of right which, being neglected at first, could not be brought forward afterwards till heaven had opened the way by a revolution in the system of government. Let us then do honor to revolutions by justice, and give currency to their principles by blessings. Having thus in a few words, opened the merits of the case, I shall now proceed to the plan I have to propose, which is, To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property: And also, the sum of ten pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living, of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age.

Common Sense - Arguing in favor of a National Debt, provided it's work benefits America. In this case, a continental Navy.

As parents, we can have no joy, knowing that THIS GOVERNMENT is not sufficiently lasting to ensure any thing which we may bequeath to posterity: And by a plain method of argument, as we are running the next generation into debt, we ought to do the work of it, otherwise we use them meanly and pitifully. In order to discover the line of our duty rightly, we should take our children in our hand, and fix our station a few years farther into life; that eminence will present a prospect, which a few present fears and prejudices conceal from our sight.

The debt we may contract doth not deserve our regard, if the work be but accomplished. No nation ought to be without a debt. A national debt is a national bond; and when it bears no interest, is in no case a grievance. Britain is oppressed with a debt of upwards of one hundred and forty millions sterling, for which she pays upwards of four millions interest. And as a compensation for her debt, she has a large navy; America is without a debt, and without a navy; yet for the twentieth part of the English national debt, could have a navy as large again. The navy of England is not worth, at this time, more than three millions and an half sterling.

Rights of Man: Using Tax Surplus to give the children of poor families an Education. He goes on to outline a plan for elderly care and social security.

Having thus ascertained the greatest number that can be supposed to need support on account of young families, I proceed to the mode of relief or distribution, which is, To pay as a remission of taxes to every poor family, out of the surplus taxes, and in room of poor-rates, four pounds a year for every child under fourteen years of age; enjoining the parents of such children to send them to school, to learn reading, writing, and common arithmetic; the ministers of every parish, of every denomination to certify jointly to an office, for that purpose, that this duty is performed. The amount of this expense will be, For six hundred and thirty thousand children at four pounds per annum each L2,520,000 By adopting this method, not only the poverty of the parents will be relieved, but ignorance will be banished from the rising generation, and the number of poor will hereafter become less, because their abilities, by the aid of education, will be greater. Many a youth, with good natural genius, who is apprenticed to a mechanical trade, such as a carpenter, joiner, millwright, shipwright, blacksmith, etc., is prevented getting forward the whole of his life from the want of a little common education when a boy.

To pay to every such person of the age of fifty years, and until he shall arrive at the age of sixty, the sum of six pounds per annum out of the surplus taxes, and ten pounds per annum during life after the age of sixty. The expense of which will be,

Seventy thousand persons, at L6 per annum L 420,000
Seventy thousand persons, at L10 per annum 700,000
-------
L1,120,000

Age of Reason: Paine's explanation of his use of "God", and what he thinks of organized religion.

I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy. But, lest it should be supposed that I believe many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them. I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

Contrary to the character portrayed by Bob Basso, the historical Thomas Paine was a progressive liberal so far left of left that even today, 200 years later, his policies and views remain highly controversial. Paine would have no doubt been in favor of government health care. Just as he was in favor of public education, public welfare, social security, progressive taxes, guaranteed minimum wages, equal rights for women, emancipation of slavery, and universal suffrage.

Further, I doubt that Paine would have argued for a single national language. He would not have berated immigrants for not speaking English, because he himself was given honorary French citizenship where he spent several years and was elected to the French National Convention. Yet he never learned to speak French.

No... were Paine alive today, or were Bob Basso's portrayal accurate to Paine's life, he would be derided as the worst kind of socialist menace this country has ever faced, despite being inspired to liberty by him. He would be as hated in our day as he was in his. Of his death, Robert Ingersoll would write:

Thomas Paine had passed the legendary limit of life. One by one most of his old friends and acquaintances had deserted him. Maligned on every side, execrated, shunned and abhorred -- his virtues denounced as vices -- his services forgotten -- his character blackened, he preserved the poise and balance of his soul. He was a victim of the people, but his convictions remained unshaken. He was still a soldier in the army of freedom, and still tried to enlighten and civilize those who were impatiently waiting for his death. Even those who loved their enemies hated him, their friend -- the friend of the whole world -- with all their hearts. On the 8th of June, 1809, death came -- Death, almost his only friend. At his funeral no pomp, no pageantry, no civic procession, no military display. In a carriage, a woman and her son who had lived on the bounty of the dead -- on horseback, a Quaker, the humanity of whose heart dominated the creed of his head -- and, following on foot, two negroes filled with gratitude -- constituted the funeral cortege of Thomas Paine.

www.thomaspaine.org...

reply to post by Lasheic

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Wow, Very nice.

I won't make a career out of learning more about Thomas Paine, however, I looked at the site and reviewed some of the info; they have a respectable archive.

Personally, I'm looking forward to reading Common Sense, and Becks version soon.

If Paine's Common Sense is anything like what I've heard, it's simply a chapter from his life.

Regardless of the rest of his life, which seems fairly miserable since he seems, imho, to have been a citizen of the world and fringe bleeding heart liberal; that perhaps is not the best life choice (to be a bleeding heart liberal.)

He seems to have loved the world and people so much as to want to give everything to those worse off. It must have been trying times. No electricity, barely running water in most areas, if any... etc.

Birth of a country (and rebirth) can be extremely painful; as it's been documented. God's awesome, organized religion can be a bane =\ ... God will always see America through it all. God bless the chapter of Thomas Paine's life that involved our country.

We couldn't have done it without him.

reply to post by DrMattMaddix

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If Paine's Common Sense is anything like what I've heard, it's simply a chapter from his life.

It is not auto-biographical, nor does it represent views he would later abandon in his life. The sharpest contrast between Common Sense and his later works would be his use of religious doctrines to justify his denouncement of the Divine Right of Kings. However, this isn't to say that he believed such doctrines. Merely that he was writing to an audience which was predominantly Christian.

From the opening article of "Age of Reason".

IT has been my intention, for several years past, to publish my thoughts upon religion; I am well aware of the difficulties that attend the subject, and from that consideration, had reserved it to a more advanced period of life. I intended it to be the last offering I should make to my fellow-citizens of all nations, and that at a time when the purity of the motive that induced me to it could not admit of a question, even by those who might disapprove the work.

Soon after I had published the pamphlet COMMON SENSE, in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion. The adulterous connection of church and state, wherever it had taken place, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, had so effectually prohibited, by pains and penalties, every discussion upon established creeds, and upon first principles of religion, that until the system of government should be changed, those subjects could not be brought fairly and openly before the world; but that whenever this should be done, a revolution in the system of religion would follow. Human inventions and priest-craft would be detected; and man would return to the pure, unmixed, and unadulterated belief of one God, and no more.

Now, of course, Paine was a Deist and his idea of "One God" did not extend beyond that simple statement of belief. He rejected ideas of revelation, of scripture, or of miracles. He did not believe in a personal god that speaks to us.

It is only in the CREATION that all our ideas and conceptions of a word of God can unite. The Creation speaketh an universal language, independently of human speech or human language, multiplied and various as they be. It is an ever existing original, which every man can read. It cannot be forged; it cannot be counterfeited; it cannot be lost; it cannot be altered; it cannot be suppressed. It does not depend upon the will of man whether it shall be published or not; it publishes itself from one end of the earth to the other. It preaches to all nations and to all worlds; and this word of God reveals to man all that is necessary for man to know of God.

In essence, he viewed science and reason as the ONLY method by which we can say anything about God. That being the case, I have no doubts that were he alive today - he would be an Atheist, as IMO, Deism is no longer a religion based on rational observation - but is a profession of faith in spite of rational observation. However, aside from that mere profession of faith in god, there is not much distinguishing a Deist from an Atheist. Of all the religious flavors known to man - Deism and Atheist are perhaps the two most diametrically opposed in simplicity of definition, yet the most similar in practice. This is why many Deists and Atheists find themselves aligned towards a common goal, and freely exchange ideas and views without the contention which revealed religion does.

Because Deism and Atheism are so similar, many people mistake Deists for being Atheists - which is what happened to Thomas Paine. What he knew would happen. Paine didn't come to his ideas later in life, rather, he saved his Age of Reason work until he thought his life was at an end. Which is exactly what he did.

Indeed, Paine was considered an Atheist well into the 20th century by many prominent figures. Theodore Roosevelt refered to Paine as "a dirty little Atheist" according to Thomas Edison. Philosophy of Paine, By: Thomas A. Edison

Paine wrote Age of Reason while he was awaiting execution in France for his denouncement of the death sentience for King Louis XVI, and his proposition of exile to America; the nation which he helped to free. Paine was, by the sheerest happenstance, spared the guillotine just long enough for Thomas Jefferson to send an envoy to rescue him.

Paine was a man who would stand by his convictions - regardless of the consequences. He stood for them with a rifle in his hand for America against the crown, returned to England to defend them on his native soil in face of charges of liable for sedition, defended them in the face of blood and rage fueled insanity in France, and he defended them even back at home in America - by continuing to publish and argue his views in the face of an increasingly hostile public.

Regardless of what your views on his liberal stances are, I hope you (and everybody) can at least appreciate how much of a disservice that Bob Basso does by distorting Paine's views and his name in a manner contrary to what Paine would support now that he in no longer around to defend himself.

Regardless of whether you support Bobs views over those of Paine's, can you not see how what Bob Basso is doing is the height of disrespect - and he should be shamed for it. At the very least, he should leave Paine's name to the merits of Paine's work - and create a fictionalized moniker to match his fictional character.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by Lasheic]

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