The Pentagon Wants Authority to Post Almost 400,000 Military Personnel in U.S

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by maybereal11

 

For instance, you are supportive of USNORTHCOM being used for disaters...does that mean that you are supportive of USNORTHCOM being used for law enforcement?

Use of NORTHCOM as law enforcement is a clear violation of the sovereignty of the States...
[edit on 14-8-2009 by burntheships]

Okay...I'll Play..

Yes I am supportive of NORTHCOM lending support in times of disaster such as they did with Katrina. When we are short on National Guard I want our Federal government to assist. All hands on deck.

No I am not supportive of them serving in a "Law Enforcement" capacity.

Neither is our government according to our current law. As far as I am aware Northcom has not asked to serve in a Law Enforcement capacity ...can you provide a link stating otherwise? Maybe I missed it.

They CAN serve as "Law Enforcement", but only under consent of congress...as the Posse Comitatus act clearly states.

Posse Comitatus includes the National Guard ...by the way...so I am finding your whole premise of federal troops vs. state kind of misleading...good entertaining thread though.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by maybereal11]

Huh-do you not remember the one severe civil war we had here? As far as I can tell it's only the criminals that commit the worst crimes that are scared to death the laws are going to be enforced and they will get what THEY deserve.

Originally posted by maybereal11

As of 2008, these changes have been repealed in their entirety, reverting to the previous wording of the Insurrection Act.

* If we are going to be qouting lengthy laws taking up space, lets at least make sure they are applicable and actually on the books.

Otherwise people might think you are being misleading...

Perhaps you are not intentionally misleading...

The changes you quote from wikipedia are in reference to the Insurrection Act...

not HR5122 also known as the John Warner National Defense Act

H.R. 5122, also known as the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 was a bill passed in the United States Congress on September 29, 2006 and signed by President George W. Bush on October 17, 2006. H.R. 5122 includes:

$500 billion allocated to the military and defense related activities for fiscal year 2007

Expansion of the President's power to declare martial law under revisions to the Insurrection Act, and take charge of United States National Guard troops without state governor authorization when public order has been lost and the state and its constituted authorities cannot enforce the law (repealed as of 2008[1]);

The elimination of the position of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction as of October 1, 2007, currently held by Republican lawyer Stuart Bowen, which is in charge of auditing expenditures in Iraq, transitioning Inspector General responsibilities to the Inspector General offices in the departments of State and Defense, now that the Coalition Provisional Authority is dissolved and Iraq is now a sovereign nation.

A sunset date of September 30, 2012.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by burntheships


* Sorry for the delay...I was banned by accident..

I am not misreading it ...look what I have bolded here...how else can that be read? I have searched other cites and can continue to post sources?
The John Warner act repealing Posse Comitatus has itself been fully repealed.

Posse Comitatus stands as law is as it was in 1807


Posse Comitatus Act
en.wikipedia.org...

These changes were included in the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122), which was signed into law on Oct 17, 2006, subsequently repealed in their entirety.

Repeal of amendments
The changes described above were repealed in their entirety by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 (full text).

All changes have been repealed, and have changed back to the original state of the Insurrection Act of 1807.

The key... the changes not the act itself.

Also other documentation that clealy shows that the John Warner National Defense Act is in force until 2012.

www.govtrack.us...

Enough attempts to derail this thread?

Let me know when I should stop providing sources ....Posse Comitatus is intact...its okay to be wrong ...I am often...just not in this case..

libertas.vox.com...

The day after the Military Commissions Act was passed and habeas corpus damaged, a second important protection was virtually wiped away Posse Comitatus. If the weakening of habeas corpus dredges up images of King John, Runnymede, and the Magna Carta, Posse Comitatus should put us in mind of Julius Caesar and the crossing of the Rubicon. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 basically forbids the use of the US military or the National Guard under federal control within the United States. It keeps the government from using the miltary on its own citizens. It is essentially the modern version of the Roman law that forbade the legions from crossing the Rubicon into Italy proper.

The Insurrection Act of 1807, on the other hand, authorizes the use of the military and the federalized militia to deal with lawlessness, insurrection and rebellion within the country. The tension between the two acts defines the ways in which the President may legitimately use the military domestically.

The expansion of the Insurrection act came on the "John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007". Section 1076 of that law rewrote Section 333 of title 10 of the U.S. Code, the Insurrection Act. I wrote a blog posting dealing with the changes a year ago, and also produced a page showing the changes in detail. To summarize quickly, the circumstances under which the President could use the military within the US was expanded from insurrection and rebellion to include "natural disasters, public health emergencies and terrorism", and most alarmingly of all "other circumstances" and left the determination of whether these circumstance pertained to the President.

The good news is that the "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008" (HR 4986) which was passed and signed by the President in late January completely undid these changes, and the Insurrection Act and Posse Comitatus have returned to their original balance. The bad news is that it had to be done on the QT. Nearly a year before HR 4986 was passed, Senator Leahy, with the support of Kit Bond, Senator Hagel and 10 Democratic Senators introduces S. 513, a bill that would have done the same thing. It died in committee. Only by burying it in the defense authorization act could they sneak it through.

reply to post by burntheships



FYI - Not a derail...crucial to the proposed conspiracy...and as I have proven my case with multiple sources...It would be cool to see you actually admit it, but I am not holding my breath.

Also - You did in fact provide a link to a bill, but that bill has been entirely repealed by the bill I have cited on numerous posts now.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by burntheships
The key... the changes not the act itself.

Also other documentation that clealy shows that the John Warner National Defense Act is in force until 2012.

www.govtrack.us...

Enough attempts to derail this thread?

Yes it had a sunset clause of 2012...it was repealled in Jan 08 all the same.

Also when you say key word changes...yes the "changes" refer to the JW bill that you claimed was in effect and those "changes" have been repealed.

Please don't make me keep posting other sources...I have provided many thus far and you keep just pointing to the original bill and saying it destroyed Posse Comitatus..

Posse Comitatus is intact as of Jan 08. Agreed?

Edit to Add: Here....instead of me wasting space posting link after link...just do a net search for "4986 posse comitatis" and see what you find.

It has been restored to it's original state...the John Warner Act has been stripped and repealed.

*All of this talk about how there is no Posse Comitatis anymore is bunk.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by maybereal11]

All this argument about whether or not Posse Commitatus is still law or not is irrelevant. The sad fact is that we have been under the Continuity of Government (C.O.G.) or "shadow government" since Sept.14,2001.
On September 14, 2001 "President" G.W.Bush declared a national state of emergency pursuant to Section 202 (d) of theNational Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C.).

Here's an excellent article from (believe it or not) CBS news from
March 1, 2002 when the story broke:

Link - www.cbsnews.com...

This state of emergency has been renewed 7 times since Sept. 14, 2001.


link - robertscourt.blogspot.com...

_____________________________________________________________

Here's a Proclamation from G.W.Bush posted in the blogspot:

Notice: Continuation of the National Emergency with Respect to Certain
Terrorist Attacks

Consistent with section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act
(50 U.S.C.), I am continuing for 1 year the national emergency I
declared on September 14, 2001, in Proclamation 7463, with respect
to the terrorist attacks at the World Trade Center, New York, New
York, the Pentagon, and aboard United Airlines flight 93, and the
continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States.

Because the terrorist threat continues, the national emergency declared
on September 14, 2001, and the powers and authorities adopted to deal
with that emergency, must continue in effect beyond September 14, 2008. Therefore, I am continuing in effect for an additional year the national emergency I declared on September 14, 2001, with respect to the terrorist threat.

This notice shall be published in the Federal Register and transmitted to
the Congress.

GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
August 28, 2008.

_____________________________________________________________

Not only have they done this but WELL OVER HALF OF ALL THE PRESIDENTIALOR EXECUTIVEORDERS AND DIRECTIVES ARE NOT REGISTERED ANYWHERE THAT THE PUBLIC OR EVEN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS CAN SEE THEM. You don't have to believe me, take it from Representative Peter Defazio, D 4th district Oregon -

video -www.youtube.com...

and - georgewashington2.blogspot.com...

From the Georgewashingtonblogspot article:

As Steven Aftergood, of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, notes:
Of the 54 National Security Presidential Directives issued by the
[George W.] Bush Administration to date, the titles of only about half
have been publicly identified. There is descriptive material or actual
text in the public domain for only about a third. In other words, there
are dozens of undisclosed Presidential directives that define U.S. national
security policy and task government agencies, but whose substance is
unknown either to the public or, as a rule, to Congress."

Rep.Defazio and 2 other congressman have been stonewalled since 2007
even though they are members of the Homeland Security Committee. The
Obama administration despite their claims of "transparency" are not willing to change the status quo or answer any questions about it.

link -www.globalresearch.ca...

Text from the article:

While Obama administration officials would not discuss details of their
continuity plan, they said the current policy was “settled,” and they
drew no distance between their own policies and those left behind by
the Bush administration.

____________________________________________________________

This is why no laws matter - we're still under a state of national emergency. The fact that Congress still meets is merely windowdressing
to keep up the appearance of a Republican form of government.
So the MSM never made a story of it - it doesn't mean it isn't real.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Asktheanimals]

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Asktheanimals]

August 14th, 2009
This article in the New American was posted today. Bolding is my emphasis, as to highlight pertinent issues.

But if state military police preparations weren’t bad enough, the federal government now wants to usurp state forces for domestic use under the Pentagon’s command. Though at least the states are fighting back on this issue.

The National Governors Association wrote a letter to the Department of Defense last week criticizing the proposals to take control of their National Guard units for domestic disasters. “Strong potential exists for confusion in mission execution and the dilution of governors' control over situations with which they are more familiar and better capable of handling than a federal military commander," the letter stated....

......And as early as last year, reports also began to surface that federal troops were preparing for “homeland defense” missions and would be operating on American soil — in what would appear to be a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits the use of military forces in domestic law enforcement.

“They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control,” noted the Army Times in a 2008 article entitled "Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1." The soldiers will also be responsible for things like knowing how to set up road blocks and the use of “nonlethal” weapons normally reserved for war-zones to subdue Americans.

Additionally, the Obama administration has recently resurrected the heavily criticized Bush-era proposal to “update” quarantine regulations...

......Unless Americans start demanding some transparency and accountability, the trend towards bigger and more aggressive government will likely continue. This time the excuse happens to be swine flu, but there will always be some “crisis” not to be “wasted,” as Obama’s chief of staff Rahm Emanuel put it..

www.thenewamerican.com...

reply to post by burntheships

Additionally, the Obama administration has recently resurrected the heavily criticized Bush-era proposal to “update” quarantine regulations...

What a hypocrite Obama is. He criticizes Bush for escalating the wars, and he does the same thing. He criticizes Bush for running up a deficit, and he TRIPLES it, he criticizes Bush for this, and does the same thing.
I can't believe how many people fell for his lies. Many of us on ATS didn't, but we're still suffering because of those who did.
When will this nightmare of an administration end?

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

People used to ask me WHY are our troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan?

We're spreading democracy? uhhh nope.

We're looking for Weapons of mass destruction? uhhh nope.

We're looking for Osama bin ladin, super badguy operating out of a cave complex with a walkie talkie and a koran? uhhh nope

They're buying time. Time for what should be the question.

They are in Iraq to keep a lid on the worlds 2nd largest oil reserves and to keep the chinese out.

They are also using the opportunity in IRAQ and Afghanistan to train the troops on how to deal with hostile indiginous populations (Like Americans) and in anti-terrorism tactics (To quell the rebellion).

I have also speculated that they are attempting to locate the real physical location of the garden of eden from which the aryian race most likely decended upon the earth.


[edit on 14-8-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust


That is an interesting idea about looking for ancient sites
and it's significance to bloodlines and aryanism. I had also
heard that they had buried some sites - why would they do
that? All very strange. Bush was talking about invading Iraq
long before he got appointed as President (sorry I just love to say "appointed").

Apologies to all for the busted links in my previous post- I think
I got them fixed.

One last idea - WHAT IF the pentagon wanted the troops so
they could stage a military coup against the government> What
if they were actually on the side of the Constitution and the people?
That would be so awesome if it were true and why not? - we've been essentially under martial law for 8 years they just called it a national emergency instead. Maybe there's some true-blues in the Pentagon
that want the Republic back. There may be hope, maybe...

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Yes! Agreed it is so obvious now. We could move Halloween to November 4th, and call it Trick or Treat!

Heh...back to seriousness...

The article from the New American says alot.

I am searching for the write up in the Army Times so I can post it on this thread!

I hate to burst you conspiracy theorists bubble but there are already more than 400,000 military members stationed within the borders of these United States. We do a thousand things that affect your well-being that you will never even know of. And you know what, we do it for low pay and no thanks in spite of you morons because we love this country and its citizens.

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! DO NOT ask us to help next time a major storm affects your area, after all we are just a bunch of socialist and you all can take care of yourselves just fine. NOT!

While we are at it we should dismantle another of the so-called socialist programs; the 911 system. After all you don't need the police and fire departments do you?

We should also remove all the men and women fighting the wild fires in California unless they are from the immediate area of the confligration.

reply to post by CT_Flyboy


Your own words...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

H.R.5122 The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C.331 -335) has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C.1385), helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by the commander in chief on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

Executive Orders enacted by President Bush

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies, the bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and granted the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry. Many of the figures in the Iran-Contra scandal were part of this emergency contingent, including Marine Colonel Oliver North.

Executive Order 11490 Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."

reply to post by ExPostFacto


confirmation of what is right!

The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.....
....They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle;....

www.armytimes.com...

The problem is not so much where the Army is stationed. The problem is that no Army in the world would listen to common sense or conscience. The Army listens only to their paychecks, meaning generals and headquarters. That is a dangerous thing.
Another problem- the Army as such consumes a huge amount of resources, meaning everyone there must be given food, shelter, paycheck etc. Yet the tangible gain to economy is not that tangible. Strangely enough the force you are feeding, is not accountable to you. They are accountable to those who haven`t sweated out a single dollar- to government. Imagine if those strong and brave men were actually involving in building things, not preparing for destroying. Building bridges, marble fountains, hospitals and kindergardens, telescopes and highways,industrial robots and shrines. What a wonderfull world we would have.