What a Atheist Wants.

What atheist want, Cue to What women want. lol

Atheist (The most discriminated group of people in comparison to blacks, jews, gays, muslims.) want the end of religion, maybe not all of us, but i'd say the Majority of Us Do.

Now we know what the 'Christians'. Want is to get the atheists out, whether we ask to many questions, are unable to believe the same they believe.


The sources are listed in the INFO of the video. JSYK.

Now Sam Harris calls for Atheists to not consider themselves atheist for the stigma attached to it, but we should be the regular people, and destroy religion and false beliefs from the regular public.

Now for me, i've converted 4 people in real life, the life I live outside of ATS to atheism, but those where only christians, now 1-4 is not very good, although in a period of one year, and of all ages.

Now Christopher Hitchens tends to outright call theists, and superstitious people outright dumb ignorant fools, Dawkins calls them fools but albeit it is a bit nicer then Hitchens, and Dennet is altogether Scientific orientated, and helpful at least .


Now we 'Atheists' if you will call yourself that, even agnostics, you believe in a higher power, that somehow created the universe because only a intelligent thing can create it, your included, or the pantheistic, included.

If we manage to destroy religion, we must not be as 'noble' as Harris, nor as hostile as 'Hitchens'. Although I deeply respect both.

We must battle from the ground and show them not what the preacher believes, but what the bible, quran, whatever you come across actually preaches!

Now it seems weird, that when we get rid of religion, childhood indoctrinations, and people believe that their life, is the one and only chance they will ever get, and when they die, they are as useless as the stars we have never seen, and that is saying too much. Way too much.

What is the end of it all, what game plan should we have for when we abolish religion completely, with a non-dogmatic atheistic society.

How great that society would be! I would suppose that an intelligent life would have a religion, as there had to be an ignorant stage. Where life would suppose a bigger life form existed. It's ignorantly reasonable.

Now mods, this is a conspiracy against religion, and is there, don't deny it, and don't press your aggression which is against me to remove the thread.

What do we atheist, need to do to A) abolish religion as we have slavery, endorsed by some religion.

We cannot wipe out a belief in a god, but at the bottom we must wipe out the belief strong enough to kill, we must wipe out religion, because it is that, which causes those to kill.

A grandma on her death bed hoping for a god of course is wrong, but only merely hurts the ones around her, by raising their false hopes higher. Now dying for your beliefs are stronger and more dangerous.

That is what needs to on the foremost end. You cannot stop a thought process but you can divert it, or change it.

Only through reasoning. Now killing, genocide, cleansing, is just what they do, but they offer no reasoning, or logic for it, except quoting a ancient book from illiterates and those who did not know of germs and diseases, and sea monsters were grave threats, and you can imagine, these are the people who derived these books.

Reasoning, Doubt, and Logic, can put a stop to it.

Now how do we construct this into the mainstream, how do we get the hardcore believers to doubt, use logic, or reason, even if it be temporarily against religion.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Republican08]

Well my friend....

I'll tell you what I tell anybody who tries to push their views on me.
And that's this.

Get off my lawn!

No...

Wait for it.

What and whom you choose to or choose not to believe in is your business. I feel that many Atheists walk around with a chip on their shoulder just waiting for somebody to mention their faith and it's at that point the cock fight begins. Why is it that?

You just said most want the end of religion? What does it matter to you? I mean I could honestly care less if you believe in God. That's your loss. I respect others right to choose who and what they believe in if anything at all. Why do you have to want that to end? Why does it bother them so much that they have to attack those who do believe?

No I dont follow or agree with everything the church does or says to do. I'm not a mindless automaton.


I'll pray for you..

PEACE
Slay

Ultimately, you are preaching that which you loathe and seem to have much in common with theists.

1. You have an agenda.
   
2. You are actively "converting"
   
3. You seek to reshape society according to your beliefs.
   
4. You have have a belief system.
   

You claim that:

We cannot wipe out a belief in a god, but at the bottom we must wipe out the belief strong enough to kill, we must wipe out religion, because it is that, which causes those to kill.

and add:

Now we 'Atheists'

You have created a belief system every bit as fearsome as religion. While you may urge people to "convert" pacifically through education and reason, it is confrontational and will end in violence.

There is also the question of whether you are right to do so. You yourself claim that you cannot wipe out the notion that a God, and it follows, a religious establishment, exists. So I ask you whether or not you feel entitled to arbitrarily rid the world of all religious institutions? Bear in mind that the insitutions themselves in the main, promote peace, which is then interpreted and twisted by individuals and offshoot groups.

Reason may dictate that you are probably right, but it is not a certainty unless you have the same kind of faith religious people do to begin with.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well in that case, did your parents indoctrinate you as a child, because then it was shoved down your throat, I surprisingly enough after long enough told them to get off my lawn.

PS. Don't pray for me, Have you seen the Templeton Prayer Study!?

reply to post by Republican08


First off too late I prayed.

Second I'm not of the same faith I was shown as a child. I even left my faith and questioned it for many years and then I came home.

The story sounds kind of familiar aye?

reply to post by Oscitate


A. An agenda, yep, I think everyone has an agenda, one guy even wanted everyone to give a compliment to a stranger, agenda doesn't have to be used as evil.
B. I am actively converting
C. Nope, not to my beliefs, they just happen to be that of reason and logic.
D. My belief system is mine, and those who want to bring that Yahweh is the ultimate creator of everything, or Zeus whichever, I disagree with, and want to end them, for the nothing is there approach. Or that Allah is sending anyone, or giving you 72 virgins, so quite blowing up buildings, and suicide bombing churches!

We cannot wipe out a belief in a god, but at the bottom we must wipe out the belief strong enough to kill, we must wipe out religion, because it is that, which causes those to kill.

lol, I wasn't if you misinterpreted it, that I meant to kill, I didn't I meant wipe out, the people who want to kill, in the name of religion, the last thing I want to happen is me be misinterpreted as jesus and muhammad were!

You have created a belief system every bit as fearsome as religion. While you may urge people to "convert" pacifically through education and reason, it is confrontational and will end in violence.

I preach if you will, against violence, as the majority of atheists do. Violence gets nowhere, as you've seen allah isn't pleased with just 9/11 but some more babies and adults must die before he is appeased. Osama Bin Laden. (for those non false flaggers)

There is also the question of whether you are right to do so. You yourself claim that you cannot wipe out the notion that a God, and it follows, a religious establishment, exists. So I ask you whether or not you feel entitled to arbitrarily rid the world of all religious institutions? Bear in mind that the insitutions themselves in the main, promote peace, which is then interpreted and twisted by individuals and offshoot groups.

Religion DOES NOT PROMOTE PEACE! Not ultimately, not mainly, not anything, it simply doesn't promote peace, Yahweh is a Realtor and Allah is a Psychopathic killer.

Rid the world through reason, but in a firmer stance then Copernicus did, which he simply bent over to the church as he was killed.

But to dissassemble the churches, and mosques, so that no more shall die for false un prove able, beliefs. In something that can only be interpreted by a man in a pointy hat, or rag.

What is so wrong with a society that just wants to live and further the great human life, without having a religion in it, a dogmatic one at that. Just where we live and embrace the experience of life, without wishing a eternal life, and the torture of people to give us this life, or feel a guilt of being alive in the first place.

Reason may dictate that you are probably right, but it is not a certainty unless you have the same kind of faith religious people do to begin with.

My faith is in reason, and reason has never led me astray, religion has, and always did. Till I backed out and questioned Yahweh, I devoutly believed in him with my heart and life, and preached to neighbors and oh boy when the muslim neighbors moved in Evangalist michael went at em with full force, till I went to mosque, and saw they were just the same people, and i've been to mosque a few times since then.

And we're all people, and can't we just be people without the souls, the bombs, the suicides, the death, the beheading of children, the clitoris removal of women, the justified rapes. Is that too much to ask.

Hi fellow atheist. I will agree that we are one of the most heavily discrimenated against people across the globe. My problem is this: I believe it is everyones right to follow and believe in anything they desire, be it jesus or the flying spaghetti monster. So when you suggest that we "Kill all religon", that is no better than the people who discremenate against us atheists. Lowering to that level as they do gets us nowhere. I used to feel the way you do, but soon I realized that fighting fire with fire only creates a larger fire. One of the large reasons we are treated like we are is that some atheists feel the need to make inflamatory remarks and attack religon at any given chance. Those are the remarks that make the news, are published in books, and tickered across the media networks. You never hear about the compassionate and understanding atheist, do you? We have most certainly helped in the making of our perception, in a most negative way.

I honestly think we should be more focused on ways to mitigate fundamentalism. I think fundamentalism is probably the underlying root cause for much of the idiocy, bigotry, and violence religion catches hell for. And it's not just confined to religious beliefs - but also to ideological beliefs, political beliefs, economic beliefs, moral beliefs, philosophical beliefs, etc, etc. To varying degrees. Some as potentially violent and oppressive as religion (political & ideological), some less so.

Remove the fundamentalism from religion, and... honestly, the whole system will either undergo radical and substantial reformation - or it will collapse upon itself. There are Christians who are well reasoned, well educated, rational, etc. Ken Miller, for example, is a professed and faithful Christian... yet he is one of the greatest voices in science to push back the tidal wave of Christian creationist bunk and faced off the Discovery Institute them in Kitzmiller vs. Dover.

I don't think we're going to be able to switch fundamentalist human behavior off like a switch. But I think we should work to identify and mitigate it's role in our interactions. Lest we find one day we wake up in a perfect world free of religion, nuked to ash over a political and resource struggles between ideologically hardliner governments.

Originally posted by Amarant
Hi fellow atheist. I will agree that we are one of the most heavily discrimenated against people across the globe. My problem is this: I believe it is everyones right to follow and believe in anything they desire, be it jesus or the flying spaghetti monster. So when you suggest that we "Kill all religon", that is no better than the people who discremenate against us atheists. Lowering to that level as they do gets us nowhere. I used to feel the way you do, but soon I realized that fighting fire with fire only creates a larger fire. One of the large reasons we are treated like we are is that some atheists feel the need to make inflamatory remarks and attack religon at any given chance. Those are the remarks that make the news, are published in books, and tickered across the media networks. You never hear about the compassionate and understanding atheist, do you? We have most certainly helped in the making of our perception, in a most negative way.

I tend to think that the media portrays us in such a way, from "ATTACK ON RELIGION" as their symbol for when a atheist speaks. Or the lies they spread about In God We Trust, or America is a Christian Nation, not a secular one, as if they've never seen the constitution that the presidents have been burning frantically.

We don't attack, that is the misconception, we Inquiry, Question, Interrogate, and Religion is dogmatic, you mustn't question it, it's like that black joke you heard, you want to tell it, but you don't because it's so sensitive, while any other race joke would be ok.

reply to post by Lasheic


You think it's fundamentalist, and I've given that much thought, and it seems to me to be a mere symptom.

A fundamentalist is a crazy person, but they aren't defined as crazy for religious reasons, but if the religion was abolished the fundamentalist would be cornered and gone.

The pacifist religious christians/islam who brought about the ayatollah and bush and obama and others, are the pacifists that brought them about! They elected them and brought them to be!

And with the pacifist listening and believing in the pope and such they have all the right to believe their craziness is true and of divine origin! Delusion is a strange and almost wonderful thing to witness.

Many "atheists" project their need for an ironically rigid materialistic thought structure onto Christians. I use the term Christians, because it is the punching bag of religion du jour. Many "Christians," many of whom are ironically legal authoritarians, project their need for a rigid little reality tunnel onto atheists. Strangely enough, many (I will not state a percentage, because I do not want to over or under judge) "atheists" and "Christians" both want to hold onto tiny little reality tunnels for dear life. We, as people, do not like to admit such things, or even recognize their existence at all. So, of course, neither confronts that which is within, and both project there motives onto the other. I guess it works by accident in this particular example, because many on both sides of the coin already share the same sort of perspective, albeit with different beliefs attached.

The view attributed to Christ is of a spiritual nature that allows a perspective for expansive development. No more cycles repeating themselves. No more building houses of cards for them to fall. No longer building civilizations on quicksand only for them to fall back from whence they came. The ideal Christian perspective is often completely missing from the dilapidated institutions of religion, a religion that in too many circumstances, appeals to the war mentality, always needing that external approval. Too bad these sorts of things lead to the antithesis of Christ in the world, but the antithesis of Christ has been a force in the world for ages. The ideal atheistic view, I would say, is to rigorously follow scientific ANALysis, and repeat as many times as necessary, always willing to reevaluate. The consistency and presented desire to reevaluate are good. The point I was making with ANALysis is that the prover tries to prove what the thinker already thinks. In an anal/territorial world, one often seeks to "prove" what would stymie his political enemies. And one has invariably projected aspects of himself or herself, aspects that he or she is unwilling or temporarily unable to face, onto those political enemies. The enemy remains within.

To sum up my rant, as I am tired and it might be jumbled, both "atheists" and "Christians," many of them anyway, are self-righteous, myopic, and selfish, as are many of us, from time to time. The selfishness stems out of fear. Many atheists go in a frenzy looking for more rebutting information to negate another specific view. Many Christians go in a frenzy to force themselves to believe and get higher numbers in the church, because their faith is lacking; they need numbers to support a "faith" riddled with cognitive dissonance. Of course they have to force belief, as the teachings have become corrupted and diluted from the start. Throw in the age of the narcissist that we have lived in (although it seems to be unraveling), and one can understand why many "Christians" and "atheists" so desperately destroy the other. Because, deep down, they know their views are incomplete, and they wish to annihilate the competition in an attempt to justify their wavering beliefs. The age of selfish tunnel vision and blind appeal to authority is over, and more and more are learning and seeking.

BTW, this is not to attack either atheists or Christians. I am merely trying to say that both viewpoints have been infected by the selfish, disregarding the other, fear-filled virus. Much in this world has, really. I also fully acknowledge that I am not talking about all atheists or all Christians. I was only talking of a type. And this type is not exactly rare.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment

BTW, this is not to attack either atheists or Christians. I am merely trying to say that both viewpoints have been infected by the selfish, disregarding the other, fear-filled virus. Much in this world has, really. I also fully acknowledge that I am not talking about all atheists or all Christians. I was only talking of a type. And this type is not exactly rare.

Although I nodded and wtf'ed at most of your post, nodded also, before you slowers get it twisted.

I find this the most awful thing ever written.

That you have to defend yourself, let the defense begin in a christian thread as an atheist or as a atheist in a christian thread.

The fact most atheist, such as myself, could lose their jobs, or being harassed by town folk till kicked out of town for atheism, it is sad, that we don't believe in a god, therefore their god I suppose or preacher wishes us out of town and to burn in help with their approval. lol.

I for one know for certain what happens when I die, do you know?

If you do read the whole bible, and ask yourself, according to this, where will I go?

99.99% are going to hell. lol. Yep.. Straight to hell, or have their tongues cut off whatever.

reply to post by Republican08


Trust me, I'm not defending anybody. I did tell you it was jumbled, as I am very tired. I am saying that many on both sides are not what they claim to be, truth seekers. This contingent perpetuates the war, and it perpetuates misunderstanding and discrimination.

It is sad. I agree with you. Anybody who would not look at the human behind the current belief is horrible. I told you I was tired, LOL. I was just trying to say that the division (and consequent discrimination) will continue to the extent that both sides of the coin are using dishonest and underhanded tactics. Many Christians state that many atheists believe the way they do for comfort, not for truth. The excuse is usually made that atheists are looking for a philosophy to justify loose morals or a disregard of the other, or something to that extent. Many atheists state that many Christians believe the way they do for comfort, not for truth. The excuse is usually made that Christians are looking for a philosophy to sanctify their fear of change and exalt their need to control.

Simply put, this world is rife with myopia, domination, and manipulation. Groups such as Christians and atheists will be at war with each other until the other tries to honestly, humbly, and deeply understand the other's viewpoint. Each person must also be honest with themselves, truly and profoundly. This happens naturally when we try to stop judging other's motives, and when we forgive others. The process is of an unraveling nature, but it must be tried to be experienced.

Until these steps happen on a critical mass level, there will be warfare amongst groups, including discrimination and much worse. Attempts to play the same games only result in the continuation of the game.

Personally, I think it would be better to overcome our tendency toward a philosophy of authoritarianism in general.

Seems to me that would help solve this issue and many others... but hey, that's just my opinion.

Sits back and waits for the ATS Christian Cabal to destroy this thread

reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment


I understand that, but myopia I wouldn't of used, since their vision is obscured not one sided at that!

I get along great with gays, their cool people, except for the real outgoing ones, I can't deal with that. As with blacks some religions hate loathe despise them! I can get along with them except for the kill all white people or I'm gonna be a gangsta fo life and kill people for their shirt, I don't get along with. Luckily i'm not dead for their beliefs.

Atheism, as harsh a word, and I wish me and hitchens dawkins harris could produce a better word for the people, even secular sound naughty. lol. to put to our group of "humans" would do wonders,yet we'd be demonstranized by religious organizations.

It's late here mate. trust me.

I have no problems with gays, I have no deity asking me to stone them to death, they do as they will they do not kill nor harm, blacks do no harm, asians do no harm, I do not believe in slaves, nor the sort. My comfort comes from my reasoning, my reasoning comes not from a god, but from the world, and the world is where I reside in. As some may see that as evil, but the world is where your at and where you die, beg to differ? lol.

The world isn't such a bad place. It really isn't. Just have to stop people from thinking they are eternal majestic beings, and thinking they have the right to kill for voices in their head or texts from millenia ago!

Originally posted by contemplator
Sits back and waits for the ATS Christian Cabal to destroy this thread

Christian Academy of Destroy Republican08 have me on their ignore list need not worry.

Allow when they see i've posted a thread, they will alert Mods to delete or hide it.

Originally posted by eMachine
Personally, I think it would be better to overcome our tendency toward a philosophy of authoritarianism in general.

Seems to me that would help solve this issue and many others... but hey, that's just my opinion.

[/quote

Lol, theocracy nor necrocracy are really great choices are they

If we deleted religion, what would our society even become, many think euthanasia of the elderly and killing of weak children, but how can you know? I know what we have from religion vs. religion. And that is both and the same.

Things we worry about whether we upset a god or not. The same as if we do wrong and zeus strikes our house with lightening, even a leader would be cast to death.

reply to post by eMachine


I agree. Much power in this world has been about might makes right, or the end justifies the deception. This means that controlling authority is absolutely rotten to the core with ritualistic war echoes and deception. The deceptive and dominant mentalities, only seeking to perpetuate their own existence lose any and all bearing on truth and love. They perpetuate misery and division. The fear they perpetuate keeps us essentially viewing things in a tunnel vision, disavowing even many aspects of ourselves, and projecting these aspects onto others. It creates mass confusion, and fear. The cycle strengthens and continues. When a tipping point sees the intricacies of how things tend to play out, then we will rapidly become a society that many have only dreamed of. A tipping point will see it when, ironically, the fear in individuals becomes so strong that it can no longer be contained. Then, love is chosen.

Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by eMachine

 

I agree. Much power in this world has been about might makes right, or the end justifies the deception. This means that controlling authority is absolutely rotten to the core with ritualistic war echoes and deception. The deceptive and dominant mentalities, only seeking to perpetuate their own existence lose any and all bearing on truth and love. They perpetuate misery and division. The fear they perpetuate keeps us essentially viewing things in a tunnel vision, disavowing even many aspects of ourselves, and projecting these aspects onto others. It creates mass confusion, and fear. The cycle strengthens and continues. When a tipping point sees the intricacies of how things tend to play out, then we will rapidly become a society that many have only dreamed of. A tipping point will see it when, ironically, the fear in individuals becomes so strong that it can no longer be contained. Then, love is chosen.

Tunnel vision, much better then myopia.

If a deity really wanted us to believe in him, he/she would've chosen us to chose between nothing or heaven, not heaven or hell. Heaven and hell is obviously man made. A Deity wouldn't create a being to burn forever for vengeance. It's not compassionate.

It's not godlike. Their are men and their are god/s chose one, and obey him, if you're going to devote your life to one, better be sure, and seek other options, doubt does not come from a mystical satan, it comes from logic.