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# Which dimension came first if the 4th dimension is time?

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posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:09 PM
Read it all. It might be a good read and give you some new thoughts

This is not supported by any sources, because i don't use sources. I like to think on my own.
This might not be how it is. But its how i think it is. But it would help if you commented with some thoughts of your own. Because i dont know everything
But i am working on it lol

We all know that we have at least 4 dimensions.

1. Height
2. Length
3. Width
4. Time

But as you see time is a different dimension than the other three. You can measure time. But you cant measure the Height. Length or width of the other three. You will never find the beginning or the end.

Now i have been thinking about the absolute vacuum. A absolute vacuum is a space without any Matter, Time, Pressure or Temperature. Does it exist?
Well we say that a vacuum is a space with less matter, time and energy. We have observed that much.

Now if you pay attention to time and what time is. Time is changes in matter.

Matter is one thing and time is another. Something is doing something to the matter so it will change.

What else then a vacuum would make the matter changes and create time?

Now lets think all the way back to the beginning.

Lets imagine that a perfect vacuum is the dimension Height, Length and Width (Space). This dimension is timeless. It has no matter, time, energy or pressure.

Now this has to exist but we will never be able to measure it or observe it. Because it is way to powerful. Its to big and its to small.

We could say that all the 4 dimensions arrived at the same time. But Matter would always be relative to nothing. Or the perfect vacuum.

We could also say that everything always existed. But still everything would be relative to nothing "The perfect vacuum".

The perfect vacuum runs everything. It must have been the first dimension. A time less dimension of space with no pressure.

Lets talk about energy, matter and pressure. What came first?

Matter is made up of energy because of a pressure differential. And different matter is made up by different energies because of a different pressure differentials.

So it might be fair to say that energy came before matter. But energy is still different then absolute vacuum.

The vacuum would try to slow done or cool the energy. What does that really mean?
Well the vacuum would try to compress the energy to equal its own force 0. That's how the energy would slow down. The energy would be compressed to the power of the absolute vacuum. And the power of nothing is more powerful then energy.

Then what happens?

Well when energy slows down it increases in size. Its just the opposite of what happens if you speed up matter to the speed of light. It would stretch in size. But not all at once. Its would stretch because the matter that is closest to the speed of light would be stretched or start to pool away from the matter with less speed.

How can i prove that?

Its not really that hard. But its hard to get you to understand it. If you imagine something that is very very long 10 km in length. And you speed it up to the speed of light. The tip would start to pool further and further away from the back end each second. Now you can't imagine having a engine in the back of this thing. A engine would compress the 10 km long thing. Energy doesn't have a engine in the back
So we have to forget about that. Do you see the picture now .)

Now when energy is slowed down by the vacuum you get a opposite affect then a stretch. The energy would start to swell up into different matter. Walla we have matter

But how big or small can energy be?

Well it wont be as big or as small as the absolute vacuum. It will be just in between?

Now that got you lost right. Well not if you think of the 3 dimensions again. Height, Length and width. What do they tell you about the location of energy?

My question was: Which of the 4 dimensions came first if time is the 4th?

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:35 PM
Time loops back in on itself, so there was really no "first." If you look into the night sky, you're actually looking back in time, and the farther back you look, the smaller the universe gets, because it's been expanding since the "beginning." So the farther "out" you go, the closer to the center you get, until you reach a singularity point that once again expands "outward." From a hypothetical outside, it would look like a donut with a tiny point for a hole.

And there are several other dimensions that work pretty much the same way. Reality is not what it appears to be. Cause and effect are a small scale illusion. In the real universe, the past is the future, and vice versa.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:44 PM
I am no cosmologist, much less a theoretical mathematician, but I always thought that dimensional space was meaningful only in relation to one another, that is one dimension cannot be conceptualized, and thus can't be understood to exists, outside of an interconnected framework.

So there can be no 1st, 2nd, 3rd. etc. They can only be expressed relatively.

Am I very wrong?

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Maxmars]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:47 PM
I had to re do this one to make it easier to understand. It will be the nest post i put in.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:50 PM

I believe what you are referring to is entropy. The doom of the universe!

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:54 PM
I appluade you stretching your thinking into this area. It is something that does not receive enough attention in this world of theories and guesses.

Although your logic is mostly sound, there you made a fundamental assumption that is actually false: time is not a dimension.

I know it has been a common belief in the 20th and 21st century but by definition a dimension is measurable. Time can only be "measured" in terms of both particles and space. For example, a year and its divisions are based upon a specific group of particles moving through a specific space. This applies to the more modern atomic means of time measurement as well.

Without going into too much technical detail, time is a decision that space and particles will persist.

I understand it is a popular idea that there are 12 dimensions (or some other number) in this universe but there are only three, height width, and length. Trying to prove otherwise is a fruitless pursuit. That's why studies which pertain to those "extra" dimensions tend to spin and spin without producing any real results.

I am aware there are those that like to attach their intelligence to understanding theories which pertain to these studies, however, do not take my clarification as a consideration that your intention is bad. This universe is composed of supreme trickery and making mistakes is inherent in it.

I wish you success in your future exploration of the fundamentals of this universe. Always bare in mind that many of today's facts are sure to be tomorrow's historic misunderstandings.

Truthfully,
Shane

[edit on 12-8-2009 by randolrs1]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Maxmars

I believe what you are referring to is entropy. The doom of the universe!

I dont really know what its called. I dont study this. I was just trying to figure out the difference between Height, Length, Width and Time.

And then i compared it to pressure from a absolute vacuum. Energy can't be 0. So there has to be a explanation between time and the three other dimensions.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 10:59 PM

Originally posted by randolrs1
I appluade you stretching your thinking into this area. It is something that does not receive enough attention in this world of theories and guesses.

Although your logic is mostly sound, there you made a fundamental assumption that is actually false: time is not a dimension.

I know it has been a common belief in the 20th and 21st century but by definition a dimension is measurable. Time can only be "measured" in terms of both particles and space. For example, a year and its divisions are based upon a specific group of particles moving through a specific space. This applies to the more modern atomic means of time measurement as well.

Without going into too much technical detail, time is a decision that space and particles will persist.

I understand it is a popular idea that there are 12 dimensions (or some other number) in this universe but there are only three, height width, and length. Trying to prove otherwise is a fruitless pursuit. That's why studies which pertain to those "extra" dimensions tend to spin and spin without producing any real results.

I am aware there are those that like to peg there intelligence upon understanding theories which pertain to these studies, however, do not take my clarification as a consideration that your intention is bad. This universe is composed of supreme trickery and making mistakes is inherent in it.

I wish you success in your future exploration of the fundamentals of this universe. Always bare in mind that many of today's facts are sure to be tomorrow's historic misunderstandings.

Truthfully,
Shane

Well you read me wrong. I am saying that time is different then matter. I am saying that time is changes in matter. Changes made by the vacuum.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:01 PM
I believe your instinct is sound. Yes, time represent a change of state, logically speaking. But as far as understanding it dimensionally, I can't do more than consider the matter as a layman. I'm sure there are some here who will show you new vistas and enjoy the adventure with you.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:01 PM
Of course you can measure the other three dimensions. Their unit is 'length'. So for height, you can say "10 meters" or "2 centimeters" or whatever.

With time you can use units of time (the 'second'). But a unit of time can be equated to a distance. 'One second' could equal 300,000,000 meters. That is how far light travels in a vacuum in one second.

The planets are already in a vacuum. The vacuum doesn't pull energy from the planets. The planets radiate energy. The planet would lose some negligible amount of mass as the energy radiates out, but at some point this would come to a stop.

As for a "perfect" vacuum, this is an idealization that is impossible, even in theory, according to quantum theory. There is a lowest energy state, which would be the best vacuum possible, but this will be somewhat greater than zero energy (and therefore, zero matter).

I know you don't like to use sources, but I encourage you to read up a bit about relativity and quantum theory, to get a basic grasp of the ideas. One highly recommended book is Stephen Hawking's, "A Brief History of Time". Another is Hawking's "The Universe in a Nutshell". Bertrand Russell's "The ABC of Relativity" is a decent text. Banesh Hoffman's "The Strange Story of the Quantum" is another.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:01 PM

Autowrench:

Check here: www.kalarhythms.com...

Did Man create God or did God create Man ?

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:11 PM

Originally posted by autowrench

Autowrench:

Check here: www.kalarhythms.com...

Did Man create God or did God create Man ?

Well the right answer would be. God created us and we created different Gods. We create to.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:14 PM

How about they all came at once....

Also I would not try to number them in order like you have, it is currently unknown which- if any- dimensions came first, it is likely all four came into being at once after either bubble nucleation or the fractal remnant of clashing membranes.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Nohup
Time loops back in on itself, so there was really no "first." If you look into the night sky, you're actually looking back in time, and the farther back you look, the smaller the universe gets, because it's been expanding since the "beginning." So the farther "out" you go, the closer to the center you get, until you reach a singularity point that once again expands "outward." From a hypothetical outside, it would look like a donut with a tiny point for a hole.

And there are several other dimensions that work pretty much the same way. Reality is not what it appears to be. Cause and effect are a small scale illusion. In the real universe, the past is the future, and vice versa.

That's true. The vacuum will first slow down the energy to matter. Then it will compress it so it will give of more energy. And than it will slow that energy down to a different matter.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:28 PM

Originally posted by jkrog08

How about they all came at once....

Also I would not try to number them in order like you have, it is currently unknown which- if any- dimensions came first, it is likely all four came into being at once after either bubble nucleation or the fractal remnant of clashing membranes.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by jkrog08]

Well how could nothing come into existence?

How would a absolute vacuum which has nothing just appear?

I would rather like to think that nothing came first. Because it was always there. And everything else is relative to nothing. And is driven by the force of nothing.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:34 PM

You should research M-Theory and hyperspace or "The Bulk" as well as "bubble nucleation"....

[edit on 8/12/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:49 PM

Originally posted by jkrog08

You should research M-Theory and hyperspace or "The Bulk" as well as "bubble nucleation"....

[edit on 8/12/2009 by jkrog08]

There is a thing i must say about reading. People think that knowledge comes from reading. But the truth is knowledge comes from understanding what you read. And a lot of people have problems with that

I think it goes a lot faster if i focus on the objective without reading someone else's thoughts. Because i still would have to think about his information and than do the math.

I like to do the thinking first then i do the math. Its a lot easier that way

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:22 AM
How is a absolute vacuum related to everything and how does it make things work?

If you put a matter the size of earth into a vacuum things will start to happen. Earth is not surrounded by a absolute vacuum. Earth is surrounded by a space with less matter within it, but probably more energy then matter.

But lets say you put a matter the size of Earth into a vacuum. What will happen?

A vacuum is a type of pressure. That is related to the absolute vacuum of 0 pressure.

Pressure will work with the same force in every direction. So it will affect the planet in every direction at once. The pressure of the vacuum will try to compress the planet down to its own force of pressure = the pressure of the vacuum. At this stage the planet won't have a center of gravity it will just have a center point. The center of gravity will come at a later stage.
As the vacuum is compressing the planet. The planet will start to shrink and when it starts to shrink the planet will start to give of different types of energies. Some energies will move at the speed of light or even faster. It all depends on how fast the energy is affected by the vacuum. The faster it is affected by the vacuum the faster it will slow down.

Now since the energy that leaves the planet slows down at different rates the planet will be separated by a differential in pressure compare to the vacuum. Creating a new weaker vacuum with more energy and matter between the planet and the original vacuum. Now when we get this new atmosphere of vacuum the top layers of the planet will start to gain weight.

This weight will press on the layers underneath them and so on all the way to the center of the planet. Now this weight is probably going to reach the center at different times. The weight would probably be uneven all a round the planet as well. So the planet will probably start to rotate by falling towards where it is heaviest or has most mass. And as it roles over an starts to rotate the weight will find the center of gravity.

When the weight meet at the center you will get a new source of energy "Heat". The heat will be gradually produced downwards because of the weight from the top down. Now if the pressure is Higher then the pressure that made the matter. The matter will change dimension from a solid state to a softer state and expand out wards in every direction, but it will always take the easiest way first. Now since this pressure is equal to the mass of the whole planet and even higher then the vacuum. The heat will also travel up to wards the surface of the planet because that's where the pressure is less and closer to the vacuum. So the heat will also heat every layer on its way up to the surface. And this heat will affect the matter with less pressure at the top and create a new energy to the already existing atmosphere. And this would probably add more weight on the center of gravity.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 04:42 PM
isnt the earth getting bigger? look at the layers of sediment. how are we digging for dinosaurs and they arnt on the surface. i feel like the earth is growing.

everyone is a god.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by enlightenedwarrior]

posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 04:48 PM
Time and space are inseparably related.

As space expands, time expands proportionally.

They either "came" together into "existence" or have always existed.

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