What will you do when it passes?

I'm not going to argue speculation with you, which is what you're putting forth. Neither of us knows what is going to happen. All I know is that I don't like it the way it is, with corporations handling our health care. And can't for the life of me, understand why people argue to maintain the status quo.

I'll consider quitting working for a living.

What's not a "right" to these people?

Healthcare is apparently a right. Most push food as a right. Why not shelter as a right?

By all "rights" I should be able to lay face down in the grass all day and somebody from the government will come feed me, clothe me and shelter me.

The best part is that sanitation is part of being healthy. So eventually some fed will come by and literally wipe my ass.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by inthesticks
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans

Clearly, that's as far as you read.

Look, if you don't want this insurance, just don't go to the doctor. Or just tell them you are self-pay and pay it yourself.

Exactly what is it about the word ALL that you don't grasp? ALL means EVERYBODY. It doesn't say all, except those that don't want it. I says ALL - period! And those that don't have "adequate and acceptable coverage" will be fined. Maybe you should read it more carefully!

No, that is NOT as far as I have read. I am reading the bill in sections with a law dictionary by my side so that I can verify definitions and sort thru the double talk and legaleze.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I'm answering anyway.

Everything from both sides is speculation at this point since there are multiple bills and none of them have been finalized yet. It's untelling at this point what exactly will be in the final bill and what will not so really neither supporters nor non-supporters can say what is and is not true about it.

I'm not happy with the status quo either, but I know that there are other ways to accomplish the same thing that are less intrusive and more cost-effective. I also know that the government run Medicaid and Medicare plans are over-budget, going bankrupt, have rampant fraud, and in some areas the care is horrible because the doctors don't get paid enough and as a result either refuse to take those patients or only take a limited number of them. I don't see why more people should be subjected to that just so we can say they have insurance.

Originally posted by inthesticks
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans

PROVIDE. To offer, make available. If someone provides a heater, do you have to use it? If someone provides a hot lunch, do you have to eat it? No. It's provided. Whether you take advantage of it is up to you.

I am reading the bill in sections with a law dictionary by my side so that I can verify definitions and sort thru the double talk and legaleze.

Look up "provide".

Edit: See correction below.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I won't do a thing. It's not going to have any effect on me one way or another as long as my husband is employed and getting insurance coverage through his job.

Yep,
To start with you will pay taxes on the benefits he's getting. The company he works for will pay taxes on it as well. The price will go up to cover the offset for the taxes that the company is paying. The company will renegotiate their benefits package to keep their bottom line good and you will have increased premiums and copayments. You will recieve a lower standard of care at a higher cost.
That's just for starters though. It should go downhill from that point as all large scale Government programs have done.

Of course this is what all employees who pay their taxes up front will get. You and your husband won't be alone. All employees who pay for healthcare will get to pay for the rest that don't.

Meanwhile, those who don't pay for healthcare will get the same coverage as you. The insurance companies will prosper and the restrictions, rules red tape will propagate like wildflowers in a summer field to make every visit to the doctor more expensive and less useful.

No.
You won't be affected at all.

Originally posted by Jenna
If this bill passes I will do everything I can to see the people who voted for it voted out of office. If they can't listen to the people who vote for them, they don't deserve to be in office. The majority are opposed to healthcare reform the way that Congress is trying to do it and Congress needs to remember who it is that signs their paychecks.

Congress IS remembering who signs their paychecks.....LOBBYISTS and those BIG CORPORATIONS and RICH PEOPLE with agendas......and that's why the healthcare reform bill will pass, no matter what we, the little people think, say, or do.

In my opinion, another possible tipping point is being created with this.

By the way, even if every one of the congress and senate read the bill page by page, and made changes according to what they don't like, or what their constituents indicate they don't like, they won't get a chance to look at all the things that will added back in at the last moment, the way they usually are.

Cause, you know, this needs to be passed immediately......(before swine flu season kicks in for real!) (sarcasm)

[edit on 13-8-2009 by sezsue]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by sezsue]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I just did a quick look over and here is the first thing I found that relates to what others have been saying...

‘Subpart A--Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.


‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--

‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year,

‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

HR3200

reply to post by ag2000


Yes, I was just getting around to posting here as Jenna showed me the same thing.

I stand corrected. Individuals who choose not to have health insurance will be taxed. And here's why:

Health Insurance Reform Supports Individual Responsibility.

Health care is a shared responsibility among government, business, and individuals. Many Americans who could afford to buy health care coverage choose not to do so. If they are struck by illness or injury, the high costs of their care are borne by those businesses and individuals who currently purchase coverage, adding billions of dollars to the premiums they must pay. Senate health insurance reform will require all Americans who can afford it to buy health care coverage – just as all drivers are required to buy car insurance. This will reduce – if not eliminate – the hidden tax of about $1,100 on their health insurance that Americans pay to cover those without insurance.

Source

As I read more about it, I tend to agree with the bill, as regards individual responsibility. If a person doesn't want health insurance, I think they shouldn't have to have it. But then, when they get sick, they should be left to die. And since we're human beings and this is America and we don't let that happen, these individuals have a responsibility to have insurance so that when they get sick, the rest of us don't have to pay for their care...

If we're really going for individual responsibility here (which I believe we all support) let's have every individual be responsible for their own health insurance instead of depending on the rest of us to take care of them when they do get sick.

I admit, I have not read the whole bill. While I believe healthcare in the US needs a reform, I don't believe mandating coverage is the proper way.

Insurance is not always an option, even if employed by a company which offers group health, some employees can not afford their premiums. Some insurance companies have numerous ways to avoid paying the bill. Pre-existing conditions? No coverage there.

The industry has to be repaired from the foundation up, not the other way. Insurance companies definitely require restructuring and more regulation.

It is very sad that all the things many people have had issues with thru US history never came to light.....But when a african american pres. is elected now everbody sees ???? ?is do you really think for such ignorance the should be blessed look deep within yourselves and look beyond color VERY SAD NO ONE SEES WHAT THE LAST PRES. DID TO CREATE THIS WORLD SMH DO YOU DESERVE BLESSINGS OR IGNORED?????????ASCENTION OR DECENSION SERIOUSLY
DEEP THOUGHT how many voted for he the thorny 1 both terms & had his back and now are mad not a co inky dink folkz REALITY WE SHALL SUFFER FOR SHEDDIN BLOOD GLOBALLY THIS IS 1 EYE FOR THE OTHER GOOD DAY ATSerz

It WILL pass, then I hope that Americans will continue to try and work out the kinks. Is anyone really surprised? I'm not, because I grew up in the south, where minority people were escorted into the schools with armed guards and a court-order, signed by a federal judge. So, yes, this WILL come to pass. All the hissy fits and tantrums in the world aren't going to stop it, so get ready! WE ARE SO OWNED, and we always have been, but it's just that some didn't realize it!

reply to post by mikerussellus

What will you do when it passes?

I just connected with a third party candidate for the senate. I am going to do ALL I can to support him in his bid for election. I may not agree with all of his ideas but at least he is not "bought" yet and he believes in the Constitution.

I suggest everyone find those third party candidates and throw them as much support as you can. The bankers and Corporations have the democrats and republicans all bought and paid for. If you are a leftist look at WHO is behind the environmental movement. Maurice Strong served as director of the Rockefeller foundation and Greenpeace, Sierra club and the rest of the enviromental groups are in their pay. Rockefeller and Strong are big into oil! I do not have the data off hand but the "green technology" being pushed is patented by Rockefeller holding companies. Look at who controls Monsanto - the Financiers control the votes of 85% of Monsanto because they vote the mutal fund shares.

Again look at the Rockefeller/Maurice Strong connection to the World Bank/IMF and then look at what their SAPs do to social programs. The leftists are being lead around by the corporate elites and they need to wake up to that fact.

Originally posted by Helig
I will keep going to work and living my life, because no matter what I want DC does what it pleases, theres no point anymore in getting bent out of shape about being shafted by the government, it really is just business as usual to them.

Yep, what I will do is probably the same thing I do everyday, wake up, drink coffee, go to work, eat lunch, come home, jump on the internet to check and see how screwed we are, and then bed.

The only thing that will change that is when the sh*t hits the fan, which is sort of looking like it might be in the next year or so.

Originally posted by Helig
I will keep going to work and living my life, because no matter what I want DC does what it pleases, theres no point anymore in getting bent out of shape about being shafted by the government, it really is just business as usual to them.

The easy way out. A sheeple response.



Your government loves you for thinking this way. Move along.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by ag2000

 

Yes, I was just getting around to posting here as Jenna showed me the same thing.

I stand corrected.

Individuals who choose not to have health insurance will be taxed. And here's why:

But what if they don't have health insurance because they just can't afford it - as is the government given reason why so many don't? No money to buy health insurance, but they'll somehow have money to pay the taxes because they don't have health insurance???

Some of you actually buy into this kind of government "logic"?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

If we're really going for individual responsibility here (which I believe we all support) let's have every individual be responsible for their own health insurance instead of depending on the rest of us to take care of them when they do get sick.

Yes I do believe in individual responsibility. But, see that's the thing, Those of us who can afford insurance will be paying for those that can't. So my responsibility is now to pay for others? And not just the one's who don't want insurance when they need life saving care but now we add in the one's who can't afford it also. Add in those people and I will be paying for their tooth aches, colds, headache's, etc...So this "plan" isn't really a step up from what we have now. It just gets the government more involved in my life and decisions I make for my family.

How is it ever beneficial to have the government run anything? We need reform. We need to find a way to bring costs down. But I don't see how this will do it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not going to argue speculation with you, which is what you're putting forth.

Neither of us knows what is going to happen. All I know is that I don't like it the way it is, with corporations handling our health care. And can't for the life of me, understand why people argue to maintain the status quo.

Why?

Simple.

A bad healthcare reform bill IS WORSE than no reform bill.

I'm probably the only one who recognizes a small irony in this debate.

During the Democratically controlled Whitehouse, Congress and Senate, the majority party in control is striving to make Healthcare obtainable for every US citizen across the board.

During the prior administration which was a Republican crontrolled Whitehouse, Congress and Senate, we were given the wonderful gift of an unnecessary war.

I'll refrain from posting casualty statistics, but I just happen to have the vote count handy from another thread (Vote on Resolution to Invade Iraq):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/355328bbd546.jpg[/atsimg]

And people complain. I am repulsed by the irony.

Where was the outrage then?



[edit on 13-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
I'm probably the only one who recognizes a small irony in this debate.

Sounds fairly elitist, but par for the course.

And people complain.

I am repulsed by the irony.

Where was the outrage then?

[edit on 13-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

Where was the outrage? Where were you?

So what you are saying is that outrage against what the previous administration was doing was OK, but not against what the current administration is doing?

kinda kurious? No, kinda hypocritical ...