What will you do when it passes?

Originally posted by milesp

That's a great question. I'd sure like to know the answer to that one...

Please don't mistake me for a partisan hack. I'm just trying to analyze and observe the situation.

Fair enough. I think we all came to the conclusion in SkepticOverlord's recent thread about his trip to the lions den, that those in power will NEVER cut themselves off from the private-interest/lobbyist teet on their own. We should send them all to lobbyist rehab...

Everyone who has read at least 20 pages of the bill raise your hand,
That is a pitiful showing.
After the passage of the bill, whenever your current plan changes (pricing, etc.) you are automatically rolled into the Gov't plan. If you are hired by a company with a health plan, since you are already on the Gov't plan, you stay on the Gov't plan. The plan will go into effect 4 years after being signed into law.
As another person on these boards once said "The Democrats have a majority. They could have voted it in already. They haven't yet.
an example from the bill page 768 #1
nurse home visits for "Improving maternal or child and pregnancy outcomes or increasing birth intervals between pregnancies"
Basically if you are poor you can't keep having babies one after another.
RTFM it will give you a splitting migraine by page 523

reply to post by Doctor G


uhh, I had my hand raised. Redhatty, Jenna, Hastobemoretolife, and I went through the bill last weekend.

Went through an entire bottle of Glenmorangie afterwards.

This is what scares me.

Wish I had never read the damn thing, so I could be a sheep.

Originally posted by Doctor G
an example from the bill page 768 #1
nurse home visits for "Improving maternal or child and pregnancy outcomes or increasing birth intervals between pregnancies"
Basically if you are poor you can't keep having babies one after another.

This isn't such a bad thing.

I think it's despicable that there are some people in the US living below the poverty line, that really can't support the kids they already have. But they end up popping out more because according to them it's "against their religion" to use birth control, like condoms.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
So what do we do? Black market? Start secret underground medical centers? Bring back the barter system? Not to get off topic, but while this has been going on, the fed has just bought our debt, we're looking at massive inflation down the road along with this huge government monkey on our back.

I love barter, we use it all the time in the town I live in. I traded use of my skid steer for truck repairs. I traded for some rasberries from a neighbours bush last week and then turned it into Jam.

Good for you no matter the outcome. I would have enjoyed having a drink after I went through it.

Tough races
Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana,
Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio

Easy for Dems
Arkansas, California, Delaware, Hawaii, Indiana, Maryland,
New York, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont,
Washington, Wisconsin

Easy for Reps
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma,
South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah

These states are having elections. I think a businessman/woman with an engineering degree would make a great Senator. They could do process charts and with a business background know where to cut. Just control the Senate and you have leverage. With people being angry it could work. Not another party - just elect non-polititions for two terms. Just take 20 seats in the Senate & you have 1/5 of it. Don't think of it as a third party. Think of it as taking your country back. Scare the politicians enough & you'll see a bunch of Dems & Reps walking in lock-step.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by Doctor G

 

uhh, I had my hand raised. Redhatty, Jenna, Hastobemoretolife, and I went through the bill last weekend.

Went through an entire bottle of Glenmorangie afterwards.

This is what scares me.

Wish I had never read the damn thing, so I could be a sheep.

[/quote

I've been through half and it seems to me to be more about forcing people onto the program within 10 years than it is about any real reform. They could of passed it but haven't, why? I think they hoped to get more support so they are hoping to get people to jump for joy at it.

reply to post by exile1981


They wanted republican support so they could call it "bipartisan". With just the dems voting for it, there will be no one else to blame when the people realize they've been #'d.

Originally posted by Doctor G
Tough races
Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana,
Missouri, NEVADA, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio

These states are having elections. I think a businessman/woman with an engineering degree would make a great Senator. Just control the Senate and you have leverage. With people being angry it could work. Not another party - just elect non-polititions for two terms. Don't think of it as a third party. Think of it as taking your country back. Scare the politicians enough & you'll see a bunch of Dems & Reps walking in lock-step.

Remember how hard Obama campaigned in Las Vegas for the Union votes? Guess what?! Most of those people are unemployed and many are bankrupt & homeless (or had to relocate).

Harry Reid and the rest of the bunch (that I did NOT vote for) already know how I feel about them. And I'm encouraging others to see reality as well. "Walk into the light Carol Ann! Walk into the light!"

These politicians think that just because 52 percent of people voted for them that those people support everything they do no matter how bad. And they think the large minority who is now the majority don't count for anything and are nothing more than slaves until the next election.

What they seem to forget is that we are supposed to have a republic, not a democracy.

reply to post by mikerussellus

99% of America will:

01) Watch some TV
02) Have sex
03) Eat some food
04) Play a video game
05) Go to bed and rest up for another long day of work/school
06) Go to work
07) Produce a lot of hot air
08) Read a book
09) Work on school work
10) Go wave signs in a Free Speech Cage

Free Speech Zones

1% might do something bordering on REAL change, and
they will end up in a all expenses paid vacation to camp.

Happy fun FEMA land camps for unhappy ppl ( stuck in committee for now)

So while its great to hop on here and talk about it, its a done deal.

Game over.

If you are an unproductive member of society, you will get what
Germans got but at a slower pace.

They won't outright kill you, they will just let you die.

Besides killing you is active effort and would cost money,
just denying you care is cheaper.

The "BEST" part is with single payer, you can't go buy insurance
to get better medical care. They want no loopholes, they want
total control of the system.

It is in the bill.



[edit on 13-8-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

reply to post by mikerussellus


Excellent, mikerussel.

In my business, I'm sent industry notices from around the world, but mostly the notices are about happenings in Britain and the US.

One thing not noted in all this, is that for a couple years now, I see that thousands of patients in Britain are catching and many dying from MRSA, norovirus, and other highly infectious diseases that were caught in British hospitals.

Who didn't have sufficient funding for ongoing, proper cleaning.

They'd spend millions for "deep cleans," and same thing.

Lots of people died from complications from MRSA. You'll not see it on a death certificate, but often, folks didn't come INTO the hospital with MRSA, but they are infected. And whatever disease or injury they were suffering from, is the one listed as cause of death.

Not true, as MRSA just destroys the immune system and allows the more moderate problems to grow deadly.

Safety in single-payer systems also seems to be a bit of a problem. Of course, they quicker the sick die, the diminished costs, as per Obama.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

There is nothing mandatory about signing up for this. You don't have to. You don't have to have insurance if you don't want it. It's an option for those who don't have it.

I can't believe people even think that... I can't believe what people believe about this bill. It's really very sad...

Apparently you haven't even read even the first sentence of the bill -
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes.
or you think the definition of ALL has been changed.

It is mandatory.

I haven't read the entire bill yet, but am slowing working my way through it.
When I hear something about it, I pull up that particular part/section and read what it says for myself. I believe what I read in the bill and not what I hear.

And, yes, I do understand that this is not the final bill and many changes will probably be made before it becomes law, but as it stands now, it is a piece of trash that should never see the light of day.

I am sure it will pass in some form or another, but I also believe that because of the folks attending the Town Hall meetings with a copy of the bill in hand and demanding answers from their Reps will, hopefully, keep alot of the crap out of the final bill. People are reading this bill, even if our Reps aren't, and they are NOT happy.

Originally posted by inthesticks
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans

Clearly, that's as far as you read.

Look, if you don't want this insurance, just don't go to the doctor. Or just tell them you are self-pay and pay it yourself.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Look, if you don't want this insurance, just don't go to the doctor. Or just tell them you are self-pay and pay it yourself.

And pay a fine for not having insurance.

Inthesticks is correct, everyone will be mandated to have insurance.

Originally posted by Jenna
Inthesticks is correct, everyone will be mandated to have insurance.

Can you show me in the bill where individuals will be mandated to to have insurance? It's businesses that must provide insurance to their employees.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I won't do a thing. It's not going to have any effect on me one way or another as long as my husband is employed and getting insurance coverage through his job. Now... if and when he loses his job, it might very well affect me. And depending on what happens, I will respond appropriately.

You guys don't think it's going to affect you, do you?

You wonder how it is going to affect those of us who have good private insurance or who are lucky enough to pay out of pocket if need be...prices will go up astronomically for what we already have, because the new 45 million patients on the public option will receive low fees for services because that is what the gov. will negotiate , just like medicare.

Right now a person with private health insurance is billed more for a hip replacement than someone on medicare...to make up the difference. We do not care, because we have insurance...but imagine 45 million more people getting lower cost care. You are going to make up the difference thru higher premiums and copays. It is unfair redistribution of wealth.

The biggest danger is your employer will now be able to drop private insurance...every company's biggest headache, because now there will be a public option for everybody.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I'll see if I can hunt it down in the bill, a lot of pages to search through , but it is worth nothing that the CBO wrote the following in their Cost Estimate as one of the effects of H.R. 3200:

Among other things, the legislation would establish a mandate for legal residents to obtain health insurance;

Off to hunt down the relevant part of the bill.

And another thing...when your company finally drops private insurance beneifits do you think you will get a raise to cover the difference...I don't think so.

Think of all the insurance people an human resourse people this will put out of work too.

The bottom line is that healthcare is not a right. A right is something you are born with and given to you by the creator. Life, Freedom free speech, free to believe whatever you want.

Heathcare is like food and clothing and housing. It is the necessary things for life each person is obligated to provide for himself and his family, through work or social contract.

Social Justice is a very important thing in civilized society, but should be done freely and not by legislation. Nothing kills charity more than socialism...because people no longer have wealth to share.

In a capatalistic, free society...one gets an education, learns a skill or develops a talent, and uses that talent or skill to earn a living. The harder one works or more creative he is the more he earns. These earnings are then sent out again into the world in construction, art, charity, cuisine, jewelers, fashion, schools, colleges, hospitals...Even the middle class send out their wealth to sporting events, restaruants, movies, clothing, autos, publishing.

Kill capitalism..you kill all those industries which make america the leader of the free world in those industries...This healthcare bill kills capitalism in the USA. To be successful you must be hungry for something...and a safety net in the surest way to make sure people do not get off the couch and be industrious.

You must work hard to earn your insurance...cant afford insurance? I bet you have cable tv and a cell phone...I bet there are lots of ways you could change your circumstances to make sure you have insurance.

I was without insurance in my 20's. So I got a better job.