'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

Im in business Laura and there is far more red tape and taxes under labour than there was with the conservative goverments

Your right,they are nearly as bad as each other-labour just seems more nasty and bullyish with their personal attacks voiced by party loving friends who work in the media in key positions

Lots of the Labour MPs in regions that look likely to lose their seats in the next election will be standing down before then!lol Just shows you they were never in it for politics,but just for the gravy train

anyway back on topic!

I cant believe that idiotic amercian blogger who didnt know Hawking was English!I expect he also thinks he sings or plays guitar in The Darkness

what a tool!

[edit on 15-8-2009 by noangels]

reply to post by Laurauk


well said...

and long live our NHS i am proud of it and if they ever try and mess with it ill be kicking some arafis hehe

The people who work for our NHS work bloody hard!!! and i have the up most respect for all the people who work for it.

The usa should kick out insurance companies and all chip in..

I mean we do? what is wrong will all helping each other out?

If im not sick i still pay for it.. why? because i hope my TAX pays for some poor sod to get well..

I just think its selfish not to want to help... and the flip side is

If you want to go private YOU CAN!!

In the USA you cant have that option?? i do not understand that at all seems kinda dumb "do not mean to be offensive" but it does...

I love the NHS and long may it continue i know the brits who use it would not stand for anything less..

so to all my good friends in the USA .. go kick some arse baby!! and demand it

reply to post by Mak Manto


change starts with u mate

One thing i want to point out as my other posts seemed anit usa..

You are the goverment.. not the retards and talking heads

I wish i could find the you tube clip of some guy but its more or less like this:

You are the cogs that make the machine work

We OWN them.. not the other way round

What would happen if we all stoped working? what would happen if we all said FU we aint paying tax?

they gunna kill us?

300 million people mate vs a few little idiots?

They never want you to understand the power you have

Thats the conspiricy my friend

Keep the people from thinking they have no power

Understand we ALLOW them to do it.... ALLOW

understand that..

I have no master and if i do HE MADE ME and im going to shout it from the roof tops

or they can kill me like JFK god rest his soul

I May not have a gun But i have a brain..

and they are aware of it... idiots "yes u" lol mr FBI MI5 agent who keeps pissing with my phone...

Useless they are

I'd like to share my "NHS experience", which happened last night. And it's a warts & all tale and gives US contributors a feeling for what the NHS does right and what it doesn't.

At approx 9pm Saturday night my niece fell off a horse and badly broke her right arm. We live in the middle of nowhere about 30 miles from the nearest general hospital. An ambulance was immediately summoned on a 999 call (for that read 911). It took nearly 90 minutes for the ambulance to arrive on a 999 call ... and for me and her Mum that was an insufferably long period to wait with a 9 year old girl in severe pain.

And when the ambulance did arrive it couldn't enter the field where we were because it simply wasn't built to traverse fields. So the ambulance crew had to walk one third of a mile, get her condition stableised and myself & some concerned locals had to carry my niece all the way back to the ambulance.

The staff said they would've called out the air ambulance helicopter but ... it's out of commission, needs repaired.

30 minutes later we're in the Accident & Emergency Unit. And the Brits will appreciate this one ... but it's the usual bedlam on a Saturday night. The poor staff are overwhelmed with the detritus of society, drunks, drug users, people who have been injured fighting each other. There's a large police presence.

My niece is quickly assessed, rushed off to X-Ray, given extra painkilling meds (morphine) ... the results are quickly back and she's got two breaks in her arm. And needs an operation to pin her arm back together. And because of the possibility of nerve damage she's got to have the operation immediately.

So. The poor gentleman who was scheduled to have an operation found his cancelled and my niece was wheeled into theatre at 2am this morning. And that's a shame for him but my niece was judged to be the more important case of the two. So he'll have to wait until later today for his operation, unfortunately.

An hour later and she's out of surgery, now complete with two metal pins which are going to be removed in 3-6 months time, once everything heals.

I've just spoken to her Mum. She's sooooooo tired & has been awake all night. She's unhappy about the long wait for the ambulance last night, every minute waiting seemed like eternity. But she's ever so grateful her Daughter's operation went well & that she'll be ready for discharge later today.

So. That's our experience with the NHS last night. No cost, obviously, no worrying about insurance forms or anything like that, for which I'm eternally grateful.

And all I have to do now, as a loving Uncle, is to buy my little niece a small gift to lift her spirits.

reply to post by Ulala


Yep sounds good to me.

Pitty about the chopper tho thats why we go mad coz the goverment wont PAY more for things like that its very anoying!!!


But im glad your family is safe and! You didnt even sign a stupid form to some greedy horrid insurance company

USA its time for Change .. kick the middle man out the way and just get taxed lol

I think thats the main issuse here.. some of my friends from the USA do harp on about ITS MY DOLLAA when its not yours.. its THERES you didnt print the thing.. "thats why people buy gold"

Now.. over here we just say to the goverment look tax us coz we are not in the mood to fill out endless crap all day long and worry about pre conditions... I sware if i had to RING some twit and ASK am i covered? I would prob just kill my self "because i was that angry" lol

So we do not understand why the USA has the system it does because its based totaly on GREED

they make money of YOU being SICK ?!?!?

It sounds like a car sales man or something... health care is not a commodity!!!!

Its YOUR RIGHT AS A PERSON TO GET LOOKED AFTER its kinda simple.. and if you have the bucks for some wiz jiggery health insurance then do BOTH

the mind really does boggle sometimes when it comes to my cusins over the pond

If the hostpitals werent full of drunken assholes every Friday and Saturday night then things would be a lot better. Most of the time and money goes on dealing with these fools.

There are many factors that effect the state of healthcare and lets not forget we are meant to be conspiracy theorists. Many surgeons and doctors I know are in secret societies and have connections everywhere, there are undoubtedly a great many big money deals and I actually had experience of this. My company was meant to do a lot of work for the NHS but it mysteriously fell through without a word, next thing I know Alan Sugar has taken over the project we were in talks for.

reply to post by Ulala


I'm glad your niece is on the road to recovery but a 90 min wait for a 999 response is much too long and is outside the guidelines for response times, even for rural areas. It could be that there was a major incident and your nieces case was considred less urgent, But you or your relatives should ask for an explanation from the Health Trust responsible for providing Ambulance services. This isn't 'nit picking' or simply complaining. They need to be made aware of these failures to ensure they are not repeated.

Thank you folks for your concern.

Just spoke to my niece by telephone. She's a bit croaky with the anaesthetic, pain free but really tired, poor thing. But hopefully she's on the mend. My Sister is mulling over the idea of complaining to the NHS Trust about the ambulance delay, frankly though she's too jaded to do anything much until she gets some sleep herself.

Next thing for my niece is a trip to her own doctor tmorro & friday (free), the dressing changed early next week (free), a few more X Rays to ensure all is healing well (free) and another operation in a few months time to remove the pins holding her arm together (again, free).

I say free. We're paying for it through our taxes obviously. But free at the point of use ... which is the main thing. No worry about expense makes for a better recovery.

Thank you, British taxpayers, for funding my niece's treatment.

Appreciated

I'm glad your niece is getting better - a horrible experience: and although you might have had to wait too long (I agree with the other poster about contacting the trust - 90 minutes is too long) at least you knew help was coming and you didn't have to worry about being bankrupted for the treatment.

The NHS is one of the few things the government does right, and the people in it (not the admin staff, greedy lazy leeches) work very hard.

Not too many Americans kicking up about how awful it is at this point, are there? I wonder why?

One other thing: I used to work in the charity sector and fundraised for The St. John Ambulance (don't say St. John's Ambulance, they get narky) and those guys do a good job too. Your tale reminded me of their "first responder" scheme, whereby if there's a volunteer living in an area far from the nearest NHS hospital, they can hook up with the ambulance dispatchers to be first on the scene, providing what can be life-saving first aid until the NHS folk get there. It's a cool idea.

reply to post by Ulala


You are very welcome friend, but i will agree with one poster also about the "other" people who waste it because they can not drink responsibly...

and we do pay for it but i would hate to do all that coverage stuff in the states.

I would be scared out my wits lol do you see how much they pay??? mind bending..

you would "or we" would have to coff up about 50 grand!! in one go lol

madness

Originally posted by Laurauk
Both the parties are as bad as each other, when it comes to the NHS.

I used to really loathe the Tories. I was living abroad when they lost the election, and in a phone call home to a mate, he said, "yeah, man, we kicked the tories out!" I said, "you think so?" for which I was branded a cynic at the time.

I thought, it's only a few months until they all get their noses in the trough and we'll be off again... and I never trusted Blair after I found out he'd been vetted by the Bilderbergers. I'd like to have seen what John Smith would have done.

I think the two parties are, as you say, not very different on the NHS (and I'm not basing this on their overt policies - did anyone believe Thatch when she said "the NHS is safe in our hands"? I know just hearing that put me on edge and worried for the future of it.

I suspect Cameron, who at least doesn't seem to be an ideologue (the downside to which is that he has no policies that haven't been through the focus group process), won't mess with it too much. He at least slapped down that MEP we all used to think was cool until he put his head fully inside the rectum of Fox and MSNBC.

During the Thatcher years, it was her Government whom tried to tear the NHS apart, and bring in the Private sector to replace it. This caused the problems in the past and the continuing problems the NHS are facing today.

I suspect Cameron may have learned lessons from that time. As it seems increasingly, and depressingly, likely that he'll be our next PM, I certainly hope so.

Everything Thatcher done during her time in office, was to bring down public bodies, such as the NHS, Fire Service, Police etc,

and of course British Rail...

I have Thatch to thank, though, for waking me up to propaganda in the UK. To be fair, right wingers are so much better at it. I can still hear that condescending bitch saying, "you can't solve a problem by throwing money at it". Sounds so reasonable, doesn't it? But, of course, you actually can solve many problems that way, for a start... and in fact this sneaky little phrase just covered up the real agenda: starve a public service of funds until it starts to fall apart, and then use the excuse that it's falling apart and we couldn't afford to put it right to bring in the private sector.

It kind of bothered me at the time that no-one really did the maths on this.

What we were being asked to accept was that it was cheaper to privatise the service concerned. Yet no one seemed to consider that on top of providing a better service, the companies concerned were going to be taking out some pretty hefty profits.

So now we are, for example, subsidising the profits of private rail companies while service levels are worse than ever and prices are through the roof.

,,, or to bog them down with so much red tape, they were trying to hit government targets, rather than, actually doing the job they were trained to do so.

This is part and parcel of the Management Consultancy Disease that afflicts the UK. The Tories kicked it off, but by God New Labour (not to be confused with the Labour Party) have taken to it like a junkie to his smack.

Another earlier poster also made a good point. We spend half as much on our health care in thie country, yet everyone's covered for free.

Does anyone now understand WHY there's such a fuss about Obamacare?

Some rich people might lose some of their profits.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


The NHS means that you get free health care from the moment that you are conceived to when you die regardless of how rich you are or if you have bad history of health - you still pay nothing.

The cost is covered by taxes to all so you are not judged on how much you can afford to pay.

The NHS is really good, but of course you can still pay for private health care if you really want it but very few people do as the NHS is very good.

To give an example, I didn't feel well last week so I called my DR and I had an appointment for half an hour later. It took me nearly half an hour to get to the DR, and so I walked straight in without a queue. The DR gave me a prescription for some pills.

I have never ever given a thought to how much health care costs because it is like having it for free.

People in the USA are very very stupid if they oppose such a health system.


[edit on 16-8-2009 by tommyc]

Just to add - in the NHS if they can't sort you out quickly for an operation then you now have a right to private health care free of charge anywhere in Europe.

reply to post by Ulala


Thats sounds nice...

But I'm confused, when she got to the hospital they didn't check for insurance? And when it was found that she didn't have insurance they didn't tell her that she would have to go to another hospital to be treated?

Thats absolutely amazing, it would never have gone that smoothly here in the states.

Surely the point here is not the rights or wrongs of the NHS, but the right of Republican and right wing American politicians to lie about it in defence of their own points of view?

The quotation, as I have read it, was:

'People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.'

Hawking has pointed out that to be nonsense.

There are many reasons why the NHS model might not work in the US - the sheer size of the place for a start. It may be that the democrats' bill won't work either. But why does the American right have to be so downright childishly spiteful about putting its message across? By all means argue or debate health issues, I couldn't care less. But leave us out of it. Pathetic.

LW

reply to post by XTexan


My Sis, niece live in the South of England. They're visiting friends near me & I'm in Scotland. But thanks to the National Health Service there were no problems with paperwork of any kind whatever. All my Sis gave the hospital were their personal details ... names, dates of birth, address ... and the hospital pulled up my niece's medical history from the computer records held by their own local doctor. The only form signed was a consent form for the operation.

So they knew instantly, for example, that my niece gets an upset stomach with certain painkillers. And didn't provide her with them on discharge from hospital, she got a less aggressive but still effective painkiller instead. In fact they had her entire medical history from birth, every innoculation, every cough & sneeze, every cut & graze ... the nurses even joked with my niece as to how accident prone she is ... because she fell off a chair at age 3 and banged her head. That was on record too.

It's actually quite an amazing system when you think about it. A hospital 800 miles from home being able to access my niece's medical records at 2am on a Sunday morning. Pretty damn miraculous if you ask me.

All I can say is I love being able to just go to the doctor when I have a problem. I like knowing that if something serious happened, I would most likely be cared for without question. There is a problem with this, because it means I am relying on the hope that each time I go, the government will still foot the bill. But I'm afraid to even IMAGINE having to pay for everything at the doctor.

I guess it's another place where it just need a total overhaul. In the future we have to take the government out of the picture completely.

reply to post by Ulala


and worth every penny!

can i ask a dumb question? but do you get a bill if your about to give birth and if so how much?

? and if you cant afford to who pays for it?

[edit on 19-8-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

Originally posted by getreadyalready

There are many many beneficiaries of National Healthcare from Canada, France and others. Their opinions are varied. There are as many horror stories as there are success stories. This can be expected.

Actually, the healthcare here in Canada is run pretty well, IMO.

The only REAL downside we suffer (in my own experience) is long lineups at the hospital, to be honest, and depending on the ailment/illness/injury, there could be a long line of people waiting for a donor. Even with those lines, if you are injured seriously, or desperately need medical treatment, they can usually fast-track you through the lines.

I don't mind the healthcare here, not at all.
Once again, though, it's just personal opinion based on personal experience.