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'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

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posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Ahh, glad you didn't dissapoint.

The man is rich, do you actually think that he goes to the same average doctor that the average man goes to or do you think he is paying top money for first rate doctors?

I didn't run down their health system, I just stated that I really doubt he has the same health care joe blow from down the street has.

You took what I said and turned it into something completely differant and came across as an illiterate big mouth. But that is on par for you, which is why I stated that I look forward to your insults.

You did not dissappoint.




posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


I don't know if you read my post but Stephen Hawking was seriously ill a few weeks ago and did go to an NHS hospital and received the same treatment from the same doctors as anyone else who goes to that hospital.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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I can't speak for the UK, or indeed any other country, but here in Canada rich and poor alike go to the same hospitals, and are put on the same waitlists.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by MongerIf I were sick tomorrow, I could simply visit the family doctor and get the ball rolling from there. Price out of pocket? Zero dollars.


If it's not out of your pocket, it's out of someone Else's, there is no such thing as a free lunch.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Double Eights
 



I don't support the war but my taxes go to pay for it anyway. I don't think anyone noticed any difference in the amount of taxes they were paying when the multi-trillion dollar war started. If anything, the wealthiest people saw a decrease in their taxes but we still managed to pay for the war just fine.

What makes you think you'll notice when the healthcare system is started?

To tell you the truth, even if there was a noticeable difference in the amount of taxes I'm paying if this bill gets put into action, I don't care.

I want to live with healthy people and I want my fellow citizens and those less fortunate than me to have access to health care and I'm willing to pay for it.

I understand why people don't want this new health care system because it's scary territory letting the gov't dictate your healthcare. But the "I don't want my taxes going to pay for it" excuse doesn't hold a lot of water.

Edit to add:

I don't ever hear anyone complaining that their tax dollars go towards activities that result in thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries, but mention that their tax dollars could save a persons life or mend a broken arm and they flip out!!




[edit on 12-8-2009 by nunya13]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by jd140
 


I don't know if you read my post but Stephen Hawking was seriously ill a few weeks ago and did go to an NHS hospital and received the same treatment from the same doctors as anyone else who goes to that hospital.



I guess I missed that post.

You are right, he did stay a night in Addenbrooke hospital in Cambridge.

I stand corrected, thanks for not being an a@@ about it.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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Universal health care is a noble endeavor. The only problem is that SOMEONE will have to suffer more no matter what system is in place, whether it be privatized or socialized.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that a universal system would remove all suffering. It just transfers the suffering from one group to another.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Double Eights
 
I don't ever hear anyone complaining that their tax dollars go towards activities that result in thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries, but mention that their tax dollars could save a persons life or mend a broken arm and they flip out!!


Obviously you don't pay attention, Americans flip out over ANY tax increase. I'm glad we do, it keeps the government at bay...the government won't use those taxes to pay for current programs, or pay down the debt...it will just expand itself with that money.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


I glad I am so entertaining


Perhaps you missed this post by Mike_A:


Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by jd140

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He was in an NHS hospital just a couple of weeks ago, I forget what the condition was but nevertheless he still does use the system so his opinion is still very relevant.


I don't really have a dog in this race, as pertains to the UK's NHS. I just happen to think that there are shills at work, NOT here on ATS of course, but in certain USA media, that are attempting to use scare tactics (falsely) in the "Great Debate" happening now. These same forces honed their skills in the early 1990's, because they had that boogeyman (woman?) Hillary. THIS time, it's "Obama Death Panels"!!! AND limp-wristed comparisons to other countries' systems, cherry-picking minor problems and faults, and focusing there.

There IS a conspiracy, and it is a conspiracy of dis-info, and I think anyone with intellectual honesty can see who and what are behind it. THOSE would be the 'shills' I referred to earlier. Others who believe the shills are just unwitting pawns.
_____________________________________________________

Oh, jd, I saw your post after I typed this. Hope I wasn't too much of a butt, this time



[edit on 12 August 2009 by weedwhacker]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Where did I ever say I support funding these illegal, unconstitutional wars? The straw man's a few of you have tried to start are quite shameful. Why put words in to my mouth that I didn't say?

I do not support paying for Iraq or Afghanistan, nor do I support paying for health care. Am I going to stop paying taxes because I disagree? Probably not, because I'd prefer not to sit in a cell for years on end.

I would gladly pay taxes to support the military if we are in a JUST war, as the Military is a joint program. The constitution also allows the Federal Government to create a Military, not so much for health care. For health care, however, it is an individual program. The Military helps benefit me, however, paying for your health care doesn't effect me in the slightest (except for in the pocket book). Sure, I don't want to see you sick or hurt, but then again, it isn't really my problem. I shouldn't be forced to pay for someone elses' medical care. Their well being isn't my problem.

The reason health care blows right now is BECAUSE government is involved. Prior to government involvement in the 70's, our health care system was the envy of the world. Since government got involved, it's becoming one of the least effective and most costly.

Also, I'd love for one of you to point out the section of the Federal Constitution that gives the Federal Government power to be involved with health care. Please, by all means, show me.

Universal health care is socialistic AND unconstitutional.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Double Eights]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by weedwhacker
They say she had family history of cervical cancer. Wouldn't that be an incentive to go get tested, EVEN if you had to pay for it???

Then that's a misunderstanding I had. If NHS pays for your healthcare do you still have to go out and pay for health insurance on your own? Is the NHS a supplement or an actual insurance plan?


There is no requirement to have health insurance. In fact I'd bet the vast majority of people in the UK who do pay for a private plan through BUPA or some similar scheme are at least in the upper middle class financial bracket, and probably only becuase they don't like waiting. That is not to say they do not also use the NHS, they do.

People generaly pay into the NHS through National Insurance contributions, which are deducted from thier wage along with income tax and is proportional to income. National insurance contribution also pay for other benefits like unemployement benefits, not just the NHS, it is basicaly how we pay towards the welfare system as a whole (though no doubt some income tax also goes that way too). You can also voluntarily pay extra NI contributions that entitle you to a higher level of benefits payout for social benefits, like unemployement benefit (you put more in, you get more back, withing the upper limit for contributions).

NI only needs to be payed when you are employed and under 65 (iirc), and only if you earn over the minimum threshold, but everyone gets the same level of health care no matter if they work, have worked or whether they have even paid any NI contributions or not.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by quackers]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by elfie
reply to post by muzzleflash
 




You're leaving out the vast majority of the population that is middle class (or rather, used to be). So many fall through the cracks because of denial for pre-existing conditions or don't qualify for benefits due to income, but don't have the funds on hand to seek treatment.


You make a great point. All these people that complain about the poor mooching off of their "hard earned dollars" don't usually have a word to say about the people who work equally hard as they, and sometimes harder, but still can't manage to afford healthcare or have certain conditions covered.

But back to the poor--does anyone even realize that a lot of people who are poor can't work BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK OR DISABLED and can't get the appropriate medical care that will allow them to get back into the workplace?

You don't want to change that?



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


No you wasn't to much of an a@@ this time.

Are you feeling alright?



[edit on 12-8-2009 by jd140]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Double Eights

Universal health care is socialistic AND unconstitutional.



Last I looked the constitution said "We The People". not "You The Individual". Is that not socialism.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


I'm waiting for my pap smear....I don't have a vagina or cervix, or any of the female bits, but can't be too careful, what???




posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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I would have to say that it is a rare rich person indeed who would even step inside an NHS hospital...as the care is often sub standard and is sometimes a disgrace. I bet Stephen Hawking had a private room and private treatment even though he was in Addenbrookes.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by MongerIf I were sick tomorrow, I could simply visit the family doctor and get the ball rolling from there. Price out of pocket? Zero dollars.


If it's not out of your pocket, it's out of someone Else's, there is no such thing as a free lunch.


I pay my taxes just as well as any other Canadian.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by jd140
 


I'm waiting for my pap smear....I don't have a vagina or cervix, or any of the female bits, but can't be too careful, what???



Bigger man than me.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Kurokage
 





What I find strange is the stance that some Americans have taken, they have a constitution granting them their freedoms of speech, their freedom to bare arms but not a freedom to healthcare, surely this should be on the forefront of your liberties and freedoms that you all talk about


I totally agree with you dude,

The wealthiest nation on earth and they cant afford to get medical care ?

What the hell are these goons talking about, the NHS being Orwellian ?

There's nothing more Orwellian than trying to persuade a population that the Nhs would be bad for them.

Bollocks I say , didn't the US citizens watch Michael moors "Sicko" ?


Obviously those in the US against providing blanket health care for everyone must be in the Atheist minority.

The depths people will stoop to for fear of losing some money, I don't know why the bastards don't try for a policy of euthanasia poor people when they get sick.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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The formation of the NHS was an enlightened thing in my opinion. We British on the whole are actually liberals at heart and history has shown this. Want and sickness were so rife post industrialisation (too many people packed into too small a space plus bad working conditions and pollution) that something had to be done at some point.

Following the two World Wars the classes had become intrinsically mixed and began to give each other more respect. The people, had to be rewarded for the time at war, something good had to come out of it. Homes fit for heroes, which after the first world was a joke of a concept (more like heroes fit for homes), had to be actually manifested at some level.

To the point there are people who geniunley cant pay for healthcare and cant work even if they wish they could. Thats not to say people should rinse the system, it should be more tightly controlled.

I have to say some of the things I am hearing from Americans are seriously outdated, arguments we were having on a social level over a hundred years ago. I am half expecting someone to say charity makes you weak.

I know that Americas healthcare is pretty brilliant as far as it goes.

But think about this, stress is the thing that makes recovery and healing so slow and ineffective. What could be more stressful than knowing that you cant provide for your family, you are going to go into debt, you are going to lose your possessions?

How can someone heal with such stress?

I was watching that show 'Breaking Bad', where the dad out of Malcolm in the Middle is a sraight laced school teacher working two jobs, his son is disabled and he finds out he cant make the payments for healthcare. He ends up cooking crystal meth (being a chemist he is excellent at this) with one of his old students. Plenty of wacky adventures ensue, its really quite good. Long story short this is whats presented to me as an example of what the American healthcare system is putting on people. Wasnt there that Denziel Washington film where he took a hostpital hostage to get his kid some treatment?

How much more carnage?



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