'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

It is just hilarious listening to Americans debate health care. But of all the posts so far, this one takes the biscuit for mean-mindedness...

Originally posted by Double Eights
I'm not going to bust my ass at work so you can get your broken arm fixed on my dime.

I'm not going to bust my ass so you can get foodstamps and buy dinner. I'm not going to bust my ass so you can get checks in them ail from Uncle Sam so you can buy school supplies.

If you want my help, COME ASK ME. Do NOT put your hand in my #ing pocket and take my money without my permission.

Wow. I've never typed that word in before and I was surprised to see it intact when I quoted this post. However, the above seems almost fair enough until...

ANYONE who believes it's acceptable for the government to take my money to help someone else is nothing but a thief without the balls to physically take the money themselves. Instead, they will sit behind the government and ask them to do it for them.

Now, see, what strikes me here is that the people who make this kind of post never ever complain when the government takes their money to bomb brown people. If only they'd say, "ANYONE who believes it's acceptable for the government to take my money to hurt someone..." yadda yadda yadda.

Take my money to kill people by all means, just don't use it to help anyone.

It's an odd philosoply.

I like living in a country where, even if I'm not dying (referring to a previous post that said hospitals in the US can't turn you away if you're dying) I can still visit the doctor for free and get a prescription for a fairly nominal fee. Considering how much money any government is apt to waste, the NHS is a rather good buy.

Of course, Big Pharma wants everything their own way. Did you know they want to be allowed to set prices for Obama's scheme? The US, as a country, will not be able to use its considerable economic buying power to negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical companies.

Doesn't sound like a free market to me...

reply to post by muzzleflash

Well, I would be all for the NHS if it were paid for by selling off the royal palaces and fortunes.

But instead the poor working class has to pay for it. And the super ultra rich don't have to bother breaking a sweat.

That doesn't make any sense. The higher earners are in a higher tax bracket so as a proportion of their earnings they pay more into the NHS even though they're less likely to use it (due to the fact that they can go private and the better off tend to be healthier). So saying social healthcare is the poor paying for the rich couldn’t be more wrong.

Why are we all caught up on National Healthcare vs. Private Healthcare?

Both already exist independently in the US, and I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't think the current system is flawed.

The specific problem at hand is THIS 1000 page bill! So many simpler alternatives are available that would not meet this opposition!

Why not give private citizens access to Medicaid or the Congress Health Plan for a normal fee? Why not regulate private companies to stop rejecting underlying conditions and provide equal access to everyone? Why not regulate the Healthcare profession to stop bilking the insurance companies and over-charging patients?

You know there is a vast cost difference between CASH patients and INSURANCE patients!! My son's circumcision was $1200 through insurance or $300 private pay!! THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Sure, National Healthcare could be great, but this particular bill is extremely flawed!!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Why are we all caught up on National Healthcare vs. Private Healthcare?

Both already exist independently in the US, and I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't think the current system is flawed.

I will go ahead and be the first to say it (although I certainly won't be the last), Private Healthcare is extremely flawed. Mainly in regards to the millions of Americans who don't have any access to healthcare, and secondly in regards to the millions more who are regularly denied access to healthcare by the insurance companies.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Sure, National Healthcare could be great, but this particular bill is extremely flawed!!

I agree 100%. We need a true nationalized system like the majority of the developed world has. The ugly truth to this bill is, our care will remain lackluster, and we will probably end up paying more for it. Also, since healthcare "reform" is taking place, we probably won't see another crack at it for at least 30 more years.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I will be moving overseas as soon as it becomes a viable option.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
See we have this little rule that makes this work. Its called "Hospitals can not turn away a dying person under any circumstances."

You know what makes the NHS great? You don't have to be dieing before they will treat you. A broken finger is unlikely to kill you, can you walk into an ER in the US with no insurance and have it treated in a matter of hours "for free"? If americans were as passionate about having their government waste less cash on utterly absurd crap then perhaps a socialised health care system wouldn't be so much of an issue, but then that requires a logical approach.

I see no reason why the US could not have one of the best public health care systems in the world, it's not like they do not have the resources, they just need to get over the fact that sometimes making a profit just isn't the target end result. As another poster mentioned, as I have in other threads, this isn't really about health care, this is a throwback to the anti-communist brainwashing the US was subjected to for 40-50 years. I mean god forbid your tax dollars should go towards a common good.

Greedy, selfish and arrogant, traits often associated with Americans, and to be honest, is it any wonder why an ever increasing number of non Americans think that.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by quackers]

You mean that that a Cambridge professor, one of Britian's most revered mental giants, gets good health care? Great Scott what a shocking revelation! Okay what about the rest of us who aren't the Ivy League type?

Cervical cancer ran in Katie Brickell’s family, so she tried to get a routine pap test. That’s no problem here in the United States, but Britain’s National Health Service refused the procedure because she was only 23


[edit on 12-8-2009 by dbates]

reply to post by dbates


Well, did you notice the copyright at the very end of the video??

Katie is a tragic story. But, what prevented her from getting a pap smear??? She was like, "I want it for free, or I'm not going to get one, even if it might kill me?"

They say she had family history of cervical cancer. Wouldn't that be an incentive to go get tested, EVEN if you had to pay for it???

Any Brits here? IF Katie independently was tested, and shown positive, THEN would NHS have provided treatment, regardless of her age???

I think that video is sad for her, as I said, but it is a stretch to use it as an indictment of an entire national Health Care system. AND, who's to say the condition would have been treatable, if caught early? I know nothing about cervical cancer --- maybe a hysterectomy might have been necessary anyway??? Who knows?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by dbates

 

Any Brits here? IF Katie independently was tested, and shown positive, THEN would NHS have provided treatment, regardless of her age???

Without a doubt!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
They say she had family history of cervical cancer. Wouldn't that be an incentive to go get tested, EVEN if you had to pay for it???

Then that's a misunderstanding I had. If NHS pays for your healthcare do you still have to go out and pay for health insurance on your own? Is the NHS a supplement or an actual insurance plan?

reply to post by weedwhacker

Any Brits here? IF Katie independently was tested, and shown positive, THEN would NHS have provided treatment, regardless of her age???

Needless to say, yes.

But I do have a question.

The reason that it isn’t routinely done in the UK for this age range is because the types of cancer it tests for are very rare at that age and it would be very cost ineffective to provide routine exams. This seems like the same rational any insurance company would use, so my question is… is this type of test really routinely covered in the US?

Also, looking at free options in the US it seem you can’t get one unless you’re 21 or older anyway so the policy isn’t really that different.

reply to post by dbates


No, although you’re free to do so it’s not necessary for the vast majority of people (if any!?).

Originally posted by Merigold
I've lived in the UK for almost 5 years. The NHS is far from perfect, however if I am sick I go to the doctor despite my financial situation. When I have gone to the doctor I have been treated well, listened to and have been given top notch care.

I lived in the US for almost 30 years. I went to the doctor when I had insurance and could afford the co pay. I got treated when my HMO said it was ok, not my doctor. When I didn't have insurance, I didn't go to the doctor. As a result I had a condition which did not get treated, got worse and eventually caused quite a bit of problems. Then when I could afford insurance again, it wasn't covered as it was deemed to be "pre exsisitng".

That's my personal experience.

Thank you for your contribution!

See this is the stuff which we over here don't get a glimpse of.

Our own Isolation causes us the majority of our distress, although it provides a great natural barrier to entry to our shores.

See the problem is we have so many people in this country who have never even visited another country.

Thanks again for this great contribution.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by weedwhacker
They say she had family history of cervical cancer. Wouldn't that be an incentive to go get tested, EVEN if you had to pay for it???

Then that's a misunderstanding I had. If NHS pays for your healthcare do you still have to go out and pay for health insurance on your own? Is the NHS a supplement or an actual insurance plan?

The NHS is for everyone, women in this country are encouraged to get smear tests so we can combat cervical cancer which is free. If a woman is diagnosed she can be treated for free on the NHS or pay for private. same doctors same hospitals, you will be seen sooner, by maybe a week or two at most and you will get a private room rather than being on a ward.

With my illness I have gone the free route with the NHS Im very happy with my treatment. I dont think i could have had better treatment anywhere else in the world.

reply to post by Mike_A


It is a yearly procedure for women 18 and up!

It is routinely covered by insurance.

IMO we have far too many 'LEEP' Surgeries as a result. Anomalies on the papsmear are fairly common, and most doctors recommend the procedure after any anomaly. This can create scar tissue and damaged Cervixes which can result in premature birth. We have a very high premature birth rate, along the lines of 3rd world countries!

reply to post by Mike_A


I don't know about the UK, but found this:

Question: How much does a Pap smear cost?

I do not have health insurance and need to get a Pap smear. How much does the Pap smear cost if you do not have health insurance?

Answer: The cost of a Pap smear varies among doctor's offices. The cost can range from $50 through $200. Some offices have a discounted price for uninsured women, while others have a standard rate.

Source

Seems reasonable to assume that a visit, paid out-of-pocket, to a physician in the UK could have achieved similar results, at a reasonable cost???

reply to post by getreadyalready


Thanks.

It is a yearly procedure for women 18 and up!

Is that free or if you’re insured?

reply to post by Mike_A


Nothing in the U.S. is free!

With my insurance, my copay is about $15. I would expect to pay $200 or $300 if I was paying for it, but that is just a guess. The Doctor's visit would probably be $50, the procedure another $100 or so and the lab test $100 or so.

Edit to add: I am a man.
I am speaking from experience of two wives and losts of sister-in-laws! About 50% of them have also had the LEEP surgery, and I think it is a scam!


[edit on 12-8-2009 by getreadyalready]

[edit on 12-8-2009 by getreadyalready]

While I don't live in the UK, I do live in a commonwealth nation with a similar supposedly 'evil' and 'Orwellian' health care system.

My mother was diagnosed with cancer a little more than a year ago. Since that time, she's been to a number of cancer specialists countless times, as well as several serious surgery's to remove tumors, and more recently, an entire kidney.

She's recovering well, in hospital, without a penny out of pocket.

A similar illness would no doubt have bankrupt us if we were unfortunate to have been born in The Home of the Brave (and broke, if you're sick).

I love Stephen Hawking, but it's pretty naive of him to say he "wouldn't be here," especially when he hasn't been subjected to the "American" system, as it currently stands. Whatever Congressman or Republican who said "Stephen Hawking wouldn't be here if he had socialized health care" is a good example of what is wrong with the Republican Party. I don't know if they were intellectually stupid or just looking for something to use....either way, what an idiot (the person who said Hawking wouldn't be here...no Hawking himself, who is a true genius.)

Originally posted by Monger
While I don't live in the UK, I do live in a commonwealth nation with a similar supposedly 'evil' and 'Orwellian' health care system.

My mother was diagnosed with cancer a little more than a year ago. Since that time, she's been to a number of cancer specialists countless times, as well as several serious surgery's to remove tumors, and more recently, an entire kidney.

She's recovering well, in hospital, without a penny out of pocket.

A similar illness would no doubt have bankrupt us if we were unfortunate to have been born in The Home of the Brave (and broke, if you're sick).

Wow! I'm glad to hear about your mothers recovery! I bet the stress of not having to worry about how it would be paid for helped her during the difficult times.



Yep... You really gotta be brave to live in this country without healthcare

Star for you!

And good luck to your Mother!

Our system, however, is not without fault. Wait times are generally very long, unless you're very ill indeed (as my mother was). But, IMHO, that's a small price to pay for not having to weigh your financial situation before seeing a doctor.

If I were sick tomorrow, I could simply visit the family doctor and get the ball rolling from there. Price out of pocket? Zero dollars.