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'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

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posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by zerbot565
 


You are correct.. and i shall say sorry for my USA friends for my rant..

But in the UK this is how it works

Everyone pays tax... so we do not need to worry about being fixed or looked after if we are sick "some" treatement is costly for us all.. so we have debates over it.. But

at the same time YOU are covered AND you have the CHOICE to go private while you are ON the NHS

the usa is a very complex system of scammers... i agree but its not about the money here

Its all about looking out for people.. I mean cmon we work like slaves i think people should GET healthcare

vote for the public option its YOU RIGHT as a person to be looked after

and TAX? well thats a joke in its self really

WE DO NOT PRINT THE MONEY do we?? NOPE

we USE money... so for my good friends in the USA?

kick the insurance comapny in the BALLS and let them know YOU AINT HAPPY

we are all human mate and i for one am happy to pay when im not sick to make sure someone IS well...

If being the man across the street who helps another man who needs help so be it

I am not selfish and i will not SEE anyone go without health care

its not right not fair and its bloody down right EVIL to do so

good Samaritan i do it every day... and i dont even blink an eye lid.




posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


one can but ponder what people think the goverment is when they dont expect anything from it.

and with that said i leave this thread because ive said everything there is to say about the subject ,

live long and healthy



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 
live long and healthy


I'm not sure if that's possible unless we change health care around...



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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So, since nobody against reform has managed to tell us the against against it I have no real option other than to understand it as an effect of social programming.

This isnt a stretch when we consider how brainwashed American right-wingers appear to be on the whole (even on this site).

I mean, I cant put it down to greed can I?

If you were greedy you would have probably piped up against the illegal taxes your government puts on you already....



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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I'd say greed plays a part.

WhatTheory, for example, has stated on here he doesn't want to put into a plan that helps everyone.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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I can't remember where I read it or even the exact quote, but it goes something like this:
"The mark of a civilised society is that they care for and look after their weakest members"

To me that sounds like THE benchmark for social medicine and other social programmes.

Of course some people will abuse the system, but that is not the fault of the system, it is the fault of the society which has been lax in educatiing people about their responsibilities within the society and the system.

And of course, some people will "slip through the net" of social programmes, but the same applies here as above - and as well as that, people have the choice if they want to slip through the net, which is something common to any western country which practices social programmes.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by dbates
 


My own experiences of the NHS have been excellent, polite and professional service for the most part. Only recently a member of my extended family was discovered to have the BRCA1 gene and the entire extended family was offered counselling and genetic testing by the NHS, free of charge. Now we all pay taxes but looking at how much I pay and balancing that against the fact that I could get seriously ill at any time, I really don't begrudge paying.

Also I like the idea that even if I never need the NHS again that someone will benefit from my contribution, I've known people suffer terminal cancer, serious epilepsy and other prolonged illnesses, and the last thing that any of them or their families had to worry about was "can we afford this treatment".

One issue I do have with the NHS is that regions can decide what treatments they wish to make available and so sometimes the more cutting edge medications (and more expensive) may be available in one area but not another, purely due to a calculation of expense vs possibility of success.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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I really need to get something straight here.

Taxes don't pay for the NHS, National Insurance does.
NI also pays for unemployment benefits, old age pension and other benefits.

NI is paid at a far lower rate than tax and is a pretty small amount for low earners.

Wiki info which is accurate, before anyone questions it because it's wiki


Also see the Beveridge Report which was the cornerstone of our system.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by budski
Also see the Beveridge Report which was the cornerstone of our system.


Thank god someone finally made light of that.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 


In fairness it was a different time, with different problems, not long after the war.

The country was in chaos still and something was needed to move us forwards as a nation.

I don't think they did a bad job



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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If we just get out of the war, we can feed people and care for them.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


I am sure I heard tony ben say that on sicko,may be wrong



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


I find it rather bizzare with regards to oneof your earlier comments!

You state that the NHS is overstaffed.

I have to dispute this fact. Everyone knows that the NHS has been understaffed, underpaid and also undervalued for years, under both Govenrments.

You only have to look at the amount of hours Student Nurses, Junior Doctors have to work to make up this shortfall, in Qualified Nurses, Qualified Doctors etc.

The NHS staff are the best trained in the world, as far as I am concerned. They would still be, if they were not bogged down with Government Targets or Red Tape all the time.

If the medical profession were allowed to do there jobs, the NHS in the UK , Not England, (I find it rather rude some members classes the UK as england, May I remind you, scotland nothern ireland and wales makes up the uk as well),
The NHS would be a million times better than the state it is in now.

But still those nurses and doctors work under extreem conditions in Hospitals up and down the country. I for one certainly do not see this work as EVIL, as some have posted on here and elsewhere.

I also find it ammusing and rather a joke, when an MEP, whom probably has his medical treatment paid for by his European Parliament Allowance, has the cheek to turn round and state, that the NHS is a 60 year mistake and is also Evil. Would he be stating this if he did not have this amount of money he recieves each year. Answer No he would not.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 04:14 AM
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That MEP laura must be feathering his nest by offering his services to the american media.I had a lot of respect for him when he called out Gordon Brown for what he realy is.
He has now lost all that respect by his silly outburst on the NHS that also alows the labour spin machine to paint the whole of the conservative party in the same colours.
I expect that criminal Mandleson who should never have been allowed a lordship will be licking his lips with glee over the next labour attack plan for the upcoming election

I showed some of my lads at work a couple of videos of the amercian NHS smear adverts and the clips going around of normal american protestors who were repeating word for word what they have been told to think about our NHS.I cant type their reactions as one word is something you cant say in canada or america
(Kevin Wilson song)



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by noangels
That MEP laura must be feathering his nest by offering his services to the american media.I had a lot of respect for him when he called out Gordon Brown for what he realy is.
He has now lost all that respect by his silly outburst on the NHS that also alows the labour spin machine to paint the whole of the conservative party in the same colours.


I did wonder how much they paid him.

And I agree - when he absolutely slaughtered Brown I thought "wow, this guy is a straight talking future Tory leader" but after seeing that I lost a lot of respect.

Absolutes. It seems the world is all about them these days. Thats not a good thing.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia


I wasn't going to make this thread but I decided to because I don't know enough of how the UK works in this matter however I would like to know more and what other people's opinions are.

(visit the link for the full news article)

When you are ill you go to a doctor. They treat you. That;s it. No checking to see if you have insurance or anything like that. Further:

If you have an accident you will be taken to the nearest NHS hospital for treatment and treated no questions asked. Full stop!

Chronic conditions: This is where the system seems to have failings. What everybody has to remember is that there is a finite limit of resources and we can cure ever more conditions! However we are talking about a very small number. Remember everybody a newspaper article is based on ONE incident!!!! (they always fail to mention the millions that weren't incidents, good news is not news).

My friend had a car accident and now has two new hips and a new knee. Cost to him zero. My father has a new knee, cost to him zero. In fact had two knees the first one worked loose after he over stressed it playing badminton. Hip replacement are very common in the over 50's these days but it never gets in the newspapers!!!!

I myself had a number of tests for high blood pressure. I must have waited a total of 10 minutes between the three departments I visited on the SAME DAY at the SAME HOSPITAL. But that's not bad news so it's not reported.

Here's a fact: Surveys of satisfaction with the health service is higher amongst the group of people who have ACTUALLY HAD TREATMENT RECENTLY. What does that tell you?

It has been implied that Mr Hawking is bound to get better treatement because of who he is. Hard to prove either way BUT: when his treatment started he was NOT famous.

The US have many people and companies who stand to lose money if a national health system was introduc ed. It does not take a genius to work out why there is opposition. It is all too familiar to hear gullable people been conned by the wealthy (any issue any country!).



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 
I got my figures right from here.

www.nchc.org...

This document is also available as a printable .pdf file.
Facts on Health Insurance Coverage

Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance Coverage

Most Americans have health insurance through their employers, yet employment is no longer a guarantee of health insurance coverage. As America continues to move from a manufacturing-based economy to a service economy, and employee
working patterns continue to evolve, health insurance coverage has become less stable. The service sector offers less access to health insurance than its manufacturing counterparts.

Due to rising health insurance premiums, many small employers cannot afford to offer health benefits. Companies that do offer health insurance, often require employees to contribute a larger share toward their coverage. As a result, an increasing number of Americans have opted not to take advantage of job-based health insurance because they cannot afford it.

How Many Americans Are Uninsured?





Several studies estimate the number of uninsured Americans. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, their latest data available.1
The Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, using the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) estimated that the percentage of uninsured Americans under age 65 represented 27 percent of the population. According to the MEPS data, nearly 54 million Americans under the age of 65 were uninsured in the first-half of 2007. 2
A recent study shows that based on the effects of the recession alone (not job loss), it is projected that nearly seven (7) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage between 2008 and 2010. 3 Urban Institute researchers estimate that if unemployment reaches 10 percent, another six (6) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage. Taking these numbers together, it is conceivable that by next year, 57 to 60 million Americans will be uninsured.
The Urban Institute estimates that under a worse case scenario, 66 million Americans will be uninsured by 2019. 4

Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2007 or 2008 without health coverage.5

Who Are the Uninsured?

The large majority of the uninsured (85 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.6
Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006. 1
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families – almost 70 percent from families with one or 7
The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 32.1 percent and overall to 15 million in 2007.1





Now the figures quoted above are low as my son and grand daughter have none and are "not one of the statistics"

Add about another 2-3 million to that figure.

You do not understand how serious this is.

Many of these people are children, elderly and our Vets.

Everyone deserves good health care. Everyone.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by ofhumandescent]

[edit on 15-8-2009 by ofhumandescent]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Excellent post. I work for a insurance company and they try to get out of anything and everything because the name of the game is profit $$$$$$

It is the greed of the few elite rich and the large corporations they own screwing over "the common man" and many American's are just too darn stubborn and or dumb to see this.

I gave you a star for being human and a most excellent posts.



kick the insurance comapny in the BALLS and let them know YOU AINT HAPPY

we are all human mate and i for one am happy to pay when im not sick to make sure someone IS well...

If being the man across the street who helps another man who needs help so be it

I am not selfish and i will not SEE anyone go without health care

its not right not fair and its bloody down right EVIL to do so






posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:22 AM
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here's something i don't understand and maybe one of the Americans here can help.
The US spends 16% of GDP on public health care.
The UK spends 8% of GDP on public health care.

where is that 16% going?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by noangels
 



Oh come on Noangels, the tories are no mutch better than labour is when it comes to spin.

Both the parties are as bad as each other, when it comes to the NHS.

During the Thatcher years, it was her Government whom tried to tear the NHS apart, and bring in the Private sector to replace it. This caused the problems in the past and the continuing problems the NHS are facing today.

Everything Thatcher done during her time in office, was to bring down public bodies, such as the NHS, Fire Service, Police etc, or to bog them down with so much red tape, they were trying to hit government targets, rather than, actually doing the job they were trained to do so.

Now I am not one for sticking up for Labour either, they have done the exact same thing as the Tories.

The NHS is not Evil, it is those who Run the NHS such as the Governments, Pharma, Medicine companies, those are the ones who are Evil. Who look out for them selves rather than others who are either poor or whom cannot afford health care.




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